Your utopian society.

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**SilverMK2**

With the UK election on the way and people now expecting things to be delivered from the American President, I'm sure that we all have views on how to make the world a better place, on the things that just mess everything up - but what would you view as the perfect world and society?

Would you prefer a supreme leader who ruled over everything with an iron fist, or a parliamentary system? How about total freedom to do whatever you wanted? The rule of the fittest? How will they be elected, if they are at all?

Would punishment fit the crime, or do you turn the other cheek? The rights of criminals are as worthy of upholding as those of the victim, or do you toss them in a pit to fight for meagre scraps of food?

What kind of stance to religion and science would society have? Would there be strong religious convictions running throughout society (see 40K fluff for details

), or would you have cold hard logic at the heart of every person? Perhaps you would even encourage people to find their own spiritual connection to themselves, the world, and everything within it? Would certain sciences be banned, or would genetic modification be strived for or even the norm? Would space exploration be a priority, or would you snub the stars?

Would technology be widespread, or would you return to the fields and forests to live with nature?

Healthcare for all, or only for those who pay their way?

Anyway, I present to you my "perfect world", and some of the reasoning behind it (I may add more in later if people bring to my attention areas of society/policy that I have overlooked).

Please note that these changes will have been established for some time, and the nation/world would be in a kind of status quo. This is not a “guideline to changing the world”, this is what I would like to see the world evolve to, or close to – some of my ideas probably do not really work, but I am just writing them down almost off the top of my head.

This is also not a “fantastical world of hover boots and laser swords” – it is supposed to be relatively near future – perhaps an alternate world where we have the technology and so on we currently enjoy, but where political and social forces have gone another way.

Silver's World
System of Government: Grass root democratic determinism - local policies proposed and voted on by local people, national policies proposed by the public and voted on by the public. Minimal political input (politicians would pretty much be extinct in this system where the people institute and determine policy). Every city, town and village will have a comprehensive system of voting booths and debate halls.

Leadership: As the nation is essentially self ruling, a national figurehead is elected from amongst the population to interact with foreign powers whenever required. These will ideally be drawn from the ranks of philanthropists and charitable workers - those who have a proven track record for caring for their fellows.

Governance in a Crisis: We know they happen, and sometimes they occur without warning. The system of government that I have proposed is not always the swiftest to act, so in times of national crisis, emergency measures can be enacted (after a national vote) to create a kind of guiding council drawn from the experts and leaders of certain fields - such as police, armed forces, science, etc, to deal with the threat. Once it has been deemed to have been dealt with, the council is dissolved.

Nature of Society: Society will be very open and free. All public services will be open to inspection by the public at any time, and all but the most sensitive files (such as patient records, criminal records etc) shall be open for viewing by the public should they wish to.

Individuals will be encouraged to live a kind of “village” lifestyle, socialising with their neighbours and family, and the building of tower blocks and council estates will be replaced with the building of actual proper, well built communities. Urban sprawl will cease, to be replaced with the creation of satellite villages and small towns.

The family and friends dynamic will be encouraged as much as is possible at every level.

Religion: There will be no state religion. Religion as a whole will become like any other activity, with religious establishments being taxed, etc the same as any other business. Active discouragement of religion will not take place and neither will an encouragement of non-belief, although a shift towards a more spiritualised, non-religious world view will be encouraged, where nature and technology are revered without the need for either the belief or lack of belief in god(s).

This is not the kind of happy clappy “love the trees” hippy kind of spirituality, but more a “respect the world around you and be aware of your relationship with it” kind of spirituality.

Environment: There will be a strong drive for low pollution alternatives for energy production (although nuclear power will be used, as it is relatively non-polluting). The same will be done for all other industrial and domestic processes. Green will be the new black and research into low impact environmental solutions will be a priority.

All urban areas will receive “greenification” to increase the number of parks, trees, etc. All wasteland not in use for longer than a certain period will be converted to grassed + treed areas until developed.

The population will be encouraged to “dig for victory” and grow their own foods where possible.

Science, Technology and Industry: Science and technology will be heavily supported and high tech industries will be invested in significantly. Bio-tech and genetic research will be high on the list of priorities, with better GM crops, medicine and so on being given the green light.

Space technology will also be a big industry, with much invested in better ships, stations, etc to enable mankind to spread to the stars.

Industry will be as localised as is possible, with strict emissions control in the form of smoke cleaning technology, etc. Damage to the land will also be limited with large scale recycling. Open pit mining will be permitted; however, worked sections must be replanted and landscaped. Spoil will also be landscaped or used in other industries.

Health: A national system of healthcare will be provided and maintained via taxation on the population that will be free at point of use for almost all healthcare issues. Some, such as "non-essential" plastic surgery, teeth whitening, etc, will be given on the understanding that the patient will have to pay for the treatment, although some may be subsidised to one degree or another).

Personal fitness will also be encouraged, with cheaper subsidised places at gyms and pools, as well as the inclusion of fittness equipment in public parks and so on (running lanes, chin bars, etc).

Education: All children will attend school from the age of 4-18. From the ages of 4-5 children will primarily learn to read, write and do sums. Children who can already do this to an acceptable level upon entering school will be skipped up to the next year. From the ages of 5-11, children will get a good basing in all the core subjects of English, Maths and Science. They will also have classes in History and Geography. There will only be a small period of time dedicated to Art, Drama, DT and Music, as I believe that it is more important to have a good understanding of how the world works and less important to delve deeply into the arts.

At the age of 11, children will be tested and based on their test results, and the wishes of the child, will be streamed into several different types of school, designed to cater for certain types of education. Those who show good practical skills will go to schools leaned towards the practical sciences, DT, mechanics etc. Those who show good artistic focus will be able to go to schools which focus on the artistic, and those who show good academic focus will go to schools which focus more on the sciences and other academic subjects. As mentioned, children will get a choice in which school they elect to go for, and this is just a brief illustration of the process. There will be several other types of school to cater for other profiles as well.

To bring children together and to allow them to express themselves in this rather narrow schooling system, after school classes will be extensive and well funded in all areas of interest.

University places will be free at point of use (paid for by taxation and any private donations by companies, research funs, etc). University will focus on courses where a university education is actually required (engineering, sciences, programming, etc), with other “teaching subjects”, such as English, history, music, etc being available as multiple shorter courses, and highly connected to work in those fields (such as teaching courses, positions in archaeology, music production, etc).

Crime and Punishment: Criminals will receive punishment to fit their crimes. The punishment for consecutive crimes will also stack. For example, someone steals something; they get 1 year in jail. They come out and steal again, so they get 1 year in jail for the new crime, and as it is their second offence, they get half of the time for it being their second crime, therefore they get 1.5 years. If they come out and steal again, they will get 1 year for the new crime, and 1 year for the first crime and 1 year for the second crime, giving them a total of 3 years for the third crime.

If someone is convicted of stealing 3 times at once without serving time, they will get 3 years, 1 year for each crime.

*Please note that times are just made up for illustrative purposes*

Prisons will be about punishment as well as re-education. Cells will be Spartan, food rather dull, etc and no-minimal entertainment will be provided. Classes will take place every day to give inmates new skills and to learn to live with other people.

The police force will be maintained at a level sufficient to police most urban areas with regular “man on the street” beats, supplemented with aerial and car patrols, etc. Rural areas will be covered by car and aerial patrols and limited foot patrols. The police force will, like the “government” be locally derived, with officers living where they work as often as it is possible to manage. These local officers will be overseen by a more national structure that ensures the laws are being upheld, officers are not doing wrong, etc.

The use of so many CCTV cameras will be dissuaded, with their use only really being tolerated in trouble hotspots, and to cover public buildings. As many CCTV systems as possible will be tied into a single grid and the images that they collect will be public property.

As I mentioned, I have not covered everything, and I will probably add more in at a later point. If anyone wishes me to clarify anything, just say.

Now you have seen my vision on one possibility of a better world, what about yours? Don’t worry about the details or covering every topic. Perhaps there is only a single issue that you really wish to change. However, I must ask, what is your utopian society?

I know from other debates on religion and politics that there are a lot of different view points on how society should be run, and I look forward to hearing your replies.

**Cheese Elemental**

A utopian society would be a terrible place.

There'd be no point to anything.

**SilverMK2**

One man's utpoia is another man's hell. Hence the request for people to suggest what they think society should be like.

It does not have to be utopian, you can suggest anything that you like - children who fail tests at school are set on fire, criminals to hold positions of power (kind of like our own politicians then eh?

), etc.

Just set out how you would want the world to run. Measures to encorage competetiveness, anything you like that you think will make the world a better place. Not everyone has to be content, just you

**KingCracker**

I think Communism sounds good on paper

**SilverMK2**

Indeed, Communism does offer several positive points.

How would you ensure that the distribution of wealth remains fair, and that people are encouraged to do the best they can while still attempting to keep everyone equal though?

Also, what would the rest of your society be like, other than Communist?

**KingCracker**

See thats where the "on paper" part comes into play.

Thats the problem with a Utopian society, eventually the problems will always tear it apart. Either people will start to not pull their own weight, others will want more share of the pie, others will feel like they contribute to much and dont get compensated enough for it, and so start to steal more share of the pie........crap now Im waiting for one of those turtle pie freaks to show up

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forgot to answer the rest of your post.

I think the best parts of communism are sound if they worked. Meaning everyone works for everyone, and when they do their part, everyone gets basically what they need to enjoy life. If that idea worked the way it should, then really that would be it. A community where there are no worries about getting sick, making rent paying bills, having enough to eat. But humans are FAR to flawed to make that work.

It only works in star trek

**SilverMK2**

I will have to be honest, the title of this thread was slightly tongue in cheek in that nothing can really be utopian - it is just a pipe dream.

So many people have been picking aprt various policies and politicians that I wanted to see what people would actually do given the chance to reform the world.

What I really wanted was people to put forward suggestions as to how they want society to be arranged.

Someone is more than OK to say that society should be a free for all blood bath, with trial by combat for every decision.

Or that everyone should undergo brain surgery to turn them into mindless slaves, with a small elite remaining to effectively do whatever it wants with the planet.

**KingCracker**

Well I think in order to have a real utopia, we would have to be incredibly blunt, and brutal on the ones that dont follow the rules. Im talking you get one warning to do your share, otherwise your going to be taken apart in the town quarter. I know how people really are, so pretending that everyone can get along great just because makes me laugh. I think strict rules and punishments, as far as how to keep the glue together is where its at.
Do that, and just weed out the non contributors and everyone will get along fine personally.

Really though, we need to make up a machine that just makes whatever you want in the form of drinks/food and really, everything will be perfect (damn that star trek for inventing the impossible!*shakes fist*)

**SilverMK2**

Well, we have China, which is almost the same

So, you are going for Communism with an extremely harsh system of punishment for people who don't fit the mould.

Interesting

**KingCracker**

Im a realist is all

Its sad really, Id love to say "well if we all just smell the flowers and talk to mother nature she will take care of us!" *insert acid trip eyes*
But I know realistically it wont work that way.

That or wait until we humans meld with technology and we all become cyborg robots. Then the main frame can control us all into perfect harmony

**SilverMK2**

So, would you back up your punishments with educational reform? Perhaps a large chunk of schooling will be dedicated to social responcibilities, working together, etc?

I also gather you would have universal free healthcare as well.

Would you need to stream certain numbers of people into some areas of work, or would you be a bit more free to choose your own path?

And machines may well make the best keepers of humanity.

**KingCracker**

Machines have no emotion thats why. They are programmed to do things, with maximum efficiency.

Also I should point out that the best way to do what Im talking about is in smaller communities. Large populations is proven to be havens for criminals and the scum of society. With smaller populations the crime rates plummet.
That being said Im not sure how to pick and chose who does what. Obviously schooling is always a good idea. Having intelligent people is a plus as far as Im concerned. Maybe testing would show us what areas are best suited for the people in Utopia. Personality and intelligence type testing.
Yes health care would be free, simply because if all the kinks are worked out, then everyone will be contributing and making only what the community needs. So a doctor for example would be contributing by keeping everyone happy and healthy.

**SilverMK2**

The problem with machines is that they can break down and be altered. Their programs are also written by people (even after many generations of machine creating machine - the first one was still built by a human, so something of that will be passed on forever).

Another thing that many 60's, 70's, 80's (etc) sci-fi writers liked to talk about was the machines essentially taking over the planet and leaving no room for people, or being so good at organising people, that humans lost their humanity, or any one of hundreds of other tales.

And I would agree that a more rural population would be easier to manage, both in terms of crime and policing, and in terms of controlling the people in the Communist system.

**Frazzled**

The ultimate Utopian?

**SilverMK2**

Frazzled wrote:The ultimate Utopian?

*shakes fist at work filters*

But from the file name, I guess it is a picture of a Cylon.

So, you think we should all become like machines in order to have a better society? How would you accomplish this? Via technology, genetics or even surgery?

There have been plenty of people who have suggested either breeding humanity in such a way as to create more managable "slave" or "machine" castes (although a modern alternative is to genetically alter people). Again, there have been people who have suggested physically removing sections of the brain or glands from people in order to do the same.

Some kind of machine overide is interesting though, as it is within our capabilities to create a chip which can detect certain action within a brain and then "zap" the brain as punishment for thinking those thoughts (although it is not very accurate at all). Although perhaps a simple remote control might work for this?

Even something inserted into the pleasure/pain centre of the brain which would activate when you were doing something that society wanted to make you feel good, and then fired the pain centres when you were doing something bad.

An interesting thought.

**Frazzled**

SilverMK2 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:The ultimate Utopian?

*shakes fist at work filters*

But from the file name, I guess it is a picture of a Cylon.

So, you think we should all become like machines in order to have a better society? How would you accomplish this? Via technology, genetics or even surgery?

There have been plenty of people who have suggested either breeding humanity in such a way as to create more managable "slave" or "machine" castes (although a modern alternative is to genetically alter people). Again, there have been people who have suggested physically removing sections of the brain or glands from people in order to do the same.

Some kind of machine overide is interesting though, as it is within our capabilities to create a chip which can detect certain action within a brain and then "zap" the brain as punishment for thinking those thoughts (although it is not very accurate at all). Although perhaps a simple remote control might work for this?

Even something inserted into the pleasure/pain centre of the brain which would activate when you were doing something that society wanted to make you feel good, and then fired the pain centres when you were doing something bad.

An interesting thought.

Wasn't this the whole plot behind Firefly/Serenity and the Reavers?

**SilverMK2**

No, the plot was having cowboys in space, then get everyone interested in the cool plot before the network throws the show in the bin :(

But I think you are correct.

**Frazzled**

Brown Coats Rule! Alliance Drool!

**Shadowbrand**

I'd never wana be a leader, but If I find a few billon dollers in the mail, I'll buy lots of sweet gadgets and be a vigilante. Probably more of a Punisher character.

Yea kinda... if Rorshach and Punisher had a lovechild. I'd keep my own peace as I'm socially stupid with people and I'd much rather be some guy in a sexy black outfit then a politician.

**Shaman**

I am now dictator of the world..

I steal the prettiest women

I retire to my bunker with awesome harem..

Occasionally outlaw something like work in the US or clothes in Sweden.. just to keep everyone on their toes.

Its Utopian if I am happy right?

**SilverMK2**

Utopian for you, yes. However, it is not really a utopian society, more "I am going to have a load of stuff in my house"

**Soladrin**

Actually, I'm kind of living in my Utopian, I love how everything is just one big feth up.

How would it be better.... bigger feth ups? OH, and people wouldn't sleep, you'd be able to sleep ofcourse, because sleeping rocks, but you wouldn't have to do it for any other reason then recreation.

**Corpsesarefun**

Like shadowbrand I would rather be a vigelante than a world leader, give me a couple of billion quid and ill be a happy bunny

Custom power armour (iron man style not space marine style) with my large array of conceptual weapons makes the world a better place, for me that is.

**Golden Eyed Scout**

Gotta go with Shadowbrand on this one.

But give me a blade and let me cut them apart, pice by piece, slowly and in public. Everybody must watch, if you look away, the eye that turned it's view is cut out.
Brutal, but after a few hundred of those around the world, people would ge the message. Fear would make them conform. And that's sorta what it all comes down to, right?
We don't murder because we don't want to lose our lives, or in todays pansy society, spend them in prison.

A utopia of fear under a Night Haunter like figure, but a Utopia nonetheless.

But I also have another one.

Life is lived in small rural enclaves. everybody contributes somehow, i.e hunt, cook, clean, whatever. Whatever it is you wanna try your hand at, you can, so it's not
"only men can hunt, women must make babies." It can be the complete other way really. Well the child bearing might be hard for men....
You don't do your share, you get to face life alone. Disputes are settled before a court of the community. Criminals are punsihed comparitvely with their crime.
Murderes killed, theives have fingers cut off, rapists get raped in return.

Brutal, but effective I think.

**Ahtman**

I suppose a Utopian society would be one where people don't ask for Utopian societies.

**RustyKnight**

Hmmmmm. My utopia would look a lot like any modern western democracy. As such, I'm mostly just going to outline what I would change from modern America (using America as that's what I'm most knowledgeable about, I mean I suppose I could use Ohio).

Governments Around the Globe
Every single nation on Earth has a stable, democratic republic that has both Executive and Legislative branches (I'd imagine that the current judiciary tasks of the SCOTUS could be settled via mixed executive and legislative congressional examination committees). Areas currently filled with strife (Africa and Southeast Asia) would have democratic republics, as would the current communisms (like China).

Economic Systems
Still mostly capitalist but with plenty of socialist programs. Welfare would still be available, but you would have to work for it. An idea voiced by, I believe Kanluwen, sounded good. He mentioned allowing welfare, but those that use it would be housed in bunkers with passable but spartan quarters. Basically, this would provide for those at the end of their rope, but encourage effort to find outside employment.

Religion
I'm atheist, but I'd be fine with allowing religions to stay, although violence (Islamic) and bigotry (Christianity) would be done away with. I'd preferably envision religion in my utopia as being similar to what the UCC preaches.

Marriage
As a legal status is gone and replaced with civil unions. Marriage is still okay, but it means nothing from a law perspective.

War
Nuclear arms gone. General decrease in world defense spending, although all nations have at least a small set of armed forces (naval, air, ground).

International
Keep the U.N., although maybe give it more ability to demand aid.
---
I'll add more if needed.

**Albatross**

Total secular humanism would be my idea of utopia.

**Fateweaver**

Guns and beer and womins.

You don't need permits to have guns, can drink at any age you are able to hold a can/mug/glass and only women under 160 pounds allowed in my utopia.

**Albatross**

Fateweaver wrote:Guns and beer and womins.

You don't need permits to have guns, can drink at any age you are able to hold a can/mug/glass and only women under 160 pounds allowed in my utopia.

Aww, damn. Why did I have to go and pick something stupid for my one? Can I come and live in your utopia instead, Fateweaver? Please? I'll be good.

**FITZZ**

Fateweaver wrote:Guns and beer and womins.

You don't need permits to have guns, can drink at any age you are able to hold a can/mug/glass and only women under 160 pounds allowed in my utopia.

Your "utopia" sounds alot like many 3rd world countries...but hey,to each his own.