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Right... some spoilers here if youv not read the Horus Heresy books so look away if your interested in reading them...







So, my friend got bought the Visions of Heresy (i think this is what its called) art book for his birthday as he's a big fan of the Horus Heresy books. Within it there is a picture of 'Chaos Warlord Torgaddon,' (again im paraphrasing as i cant really remember, hes definatly chaos though.) Is this just a picture depicting the visions Loken has or do you think it might be something else or maybe a completly differnt Torgaddon or

Any thoughts or anything anyone can do to clarify this for me and my mate would be a great help as we both really like the character!

Can you ask him the page number? I'll look it up.

It's a mistake. The visions books are full of mistakes. Most of the mistakes are on the pictures which originated in the HH card game, which again was full of mistakes, and was made before the HH novels were even written.

Other mistakes include a white haired aging first captain Saul Tarvitz. Who is a young dark haired captain of the tenth in the books. Or Captain Fabius, who is an apothecary, not a captain.

Thats a shame. They could do something really cool with it. Thanks anyway.

Anyway the page numbers are 192 and 366 for Soladrin and anyone else interested.

Well, maybe no more fun for Torgaddon but...

@ Whatwhat - my thoughts exactly!

whatwhat wrote:Other mistakes include a white haired aging first captain Saul Tarvitz. Who is a young dark haired captain of the tenth in the books. Or Captain Fabius, who is an apothecary, not a captain.

This does bring up another interesting question, though. Couldn't it have been possible for Apothecaries (or any other kind of Astartes specialists, for that matter) earn ranks and commands of their own?

I'm on board with whatwhat and necro, that idea popped into my head the minute I saw how much of an emotional wreck Aximand became after Tarik's death.

Admittedly, I don't like the idea of a Tarik Chaos warlord, it goes against his character too much.

A little off topic but it is my topic so i dont mind,

But yeah, i agree with you guys to, Aximand just doesnt seem all that into it at all. I cant imagine him going full chaos and that would make sense.

I'm working from memory here, but Dreadnought Rylanor was in the Fulgrim book wasn't he?

I remember a Dreadnought dying in the virus bombing in that book, it was pretty well described how the virus got through tiny cracks and battle damage. Wasn't that Rylanor?

Ah it could be, iv not read Fulgrim yet but my friend said something to me about him being mentioned in Fulgrim in a battle report after Istavan and that he was unacounted for among the loyalist casulties? He may have misread though, it wouldnt surprise me haha.

UltraHawk wrote:I'm working from memory here, but Dreadnought Rylanor was in the Fulgrim book wasn't he?

I remember a Dreadnought dying in the virus bombing in that book, it was pretty well described how the virus got through tiny cracks and battle damage. Wasn't that Rylanor?

I think you might be confusing him with Huron-Fal from 'Flight of the Eisenstein'.

whatwhat wrote:It's a mistake. The visions books are full of mistakes. Most of the mistakes are on the pictures which originated in the HH card game, which again was full of mistakes, and was made before the HH novels were even written.

While I do love parts of the art book, this quote sums it up nicely.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Alan Merritt has made a lot of mistakes in the changes to some of the underlying themes and plots involved in what we used to 'know' about the Horus Heresy.

Some changes are good, some not so good.

But, I guess that's progress for you!

And really, GW needs to find and then hire competent editors...

pfft if Abbadon could bring back Eliphas the Inheritor from the death, dont you think that he will be able to do the same with Tarikk? or Maybe have a clone of him commissioned from Fabius Bile to work as Abbadon's Nostalgia Honor guard companion.

An explanation for the Chaos Tarik could be when Loken see's the vision after reading from the Book of Lorgar.

Just a thought.

I love Visions but yeah, some of it is a bit off the mark. But then you could argue that some of the Horus Heresy series is the same.

whatwhat wrote:Well, maybe no more fun for Torgaddon but...

Spoiler:

IMO Aximand is still a good guy. He expressed doubt when he and Abaddon killed loken and torgadon . He might be the one who lowered the shields on Horus' battle barge in the battle of terra.

Read 'Little Horus' in Age of Darkness.

Whatever happened to aximand anyway?

Yeah have none of you blokes listened to the Garro audio drama?

Loken was merely taking a rest!

More like flying rodent gak crazy, but fair enough, he lives

listen to the audio book "garro legion of one" if you all want to know about the aftermath of istavaan

I have a theory that

Mock Heroic wrote:A little off topic but it is my topic so i dont mind,

Spoiler:

do you guys really think Loken is dead at this point? As the phrasing of that section seems remarkably similar to when Karkasy was beaten up by the soldiers in the first book. And What about the Dreadnaught Rylanor? There was nothing conclusive about him either from what i remember.

But yeah, i agree with you guys to, Aximand just doesnt seem all that into it at all. I cant imagine him going full chaos and that would make sense.

The Spoiler is about Loken, listen to the audio book Garro:Legion of one" or click the spoiler and find out"

Initially, after Galaxy in Flames and Little Horus breakdown, How wrong was I

Alpharius wrote:

whatwhat wrote:It's a mistake. The visions books are full of mistakes. Most of the mistakes are on the pictures which originated in the HH card game, which again was full of mistakes, and was made before the HH novels were even written.

While I do love parts of the art book, this quote sums it up nicely.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Alan Merritt has made a lot of mistakes in the changes to some of the underlying themes and plots involved in what we used to 'know' about the Horus Heresy.

Some changes are good, some not so good.

But, I guess that's progress for you!

And really, GW needs to find and then hire competent editors...

BL have got a new guy in charge of continuity now regarding the series, backed up by some real background experts over on the Greatcrusade forum, so hopefully things will improve in that regard!

Yes the art books do have some mistakes, the purple Ultramarine springs to mind. Not to mention the massively varying colours of the Sons of Horus (perhaps the reason that you often don't see them on the tabletop). This is the problem of using commissioned artists in some cases and them not getting the brief entirely correct. That being said, I think the books are a wonderful collection of work for the most part part. And without them, we would never have had the creation of a 30k hobby, and even the HH book series which followed in its wake. So, for the most part I think they are a jewel in BL's crown

I agree about the Heresy and the route it is taking. I feel the big white elephant in the room (and this is something that ADB agreed with me on on another forum) is that the fall of Horus doesn't seem to have been adequately explained, other than him moaning a little about his warriors being left in the cold and office-types taking over control of the Imperium. That left a monumental short fall - how could we explain how Horus turned against his father who not only created him, but for whom he had fought for for 200 years, and then killed his very own progeny and ripped the Imperium he had helped to create in 2? There was a massive gap in causality there, fair enough giving your reader a chance to think about what was going on behind the scenes, and in Horus' mind, but this left a dump-truck sized gap in the plot. And as a way to fill it? Horus was stabbed by a magic sword, got black circles around his eyes, then started the puppy killing.

I really hope it doesn't stay like this and another writer gets to revisit the story - after all this is the reason that the Heresy happened, and by extension the entire Warhammer 40,000 universe exists! And for me, an understanding of causality and character that the reader can relate to will always trump 'a wizard did it' and childish conceptions of things being inherently evil. The latter might have served for a couple of paragraphs in the art books, but considering the book series is being expanded to 30 books or more this issue deserves more.