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This has probably been asked a few hundred times by now, but here goes: Trukk boyz, should they be Shootas or Slugga/Choppas?

IMHO sluggas

It's really not as cut and dried as that, in more than a few situations. Shootas in a trukk with /bs turn out 6 hits a turn on average, you lose 11 attacks on the charge not all of which will hit.

When trukks are decked with a BP, and running along side BWs they are not often going to be the focus of shooting, this means they can be used more effectivly as back-up for the trukks, meaning less empty shells with only BS, in a heavyily mechanised game getting out of vehicles can often be death and having two or so many mobile anti-tank and shooting platforms that can control objectives is good, often better than 'having' to throw another twelve guys into a combat where the damage pre-assault they could be doing with shooting and the follow-up options from not being forced into the situation above is valuable.

Which is why in a BW heavy army that already has a fw large squads tucked into them I feel shoota boys can be far more benifical in a list written to win against a wider variety of situations.

If you could move 12" and fire your shootas I'd take them, but you can't so don't. You can however move 12", disembark within 2", and charge 6" (with an additional d6" if you waagh!).

Therefore I say sluggas and choppas are better, double the attacks, usually hits on 4+ VS 5+, potentially greater range (waagh!), and the ability to swing a klaw around too. Very good for trukks.

Shootas would be pretty fun though, but I can see the trukks being destroyed fast, leaving the boyz stranded.

Hope thats helpful,

Mookie.

Mookie Blaylock wrote:If you could move 12" and fire your shootas I'd take them, but you can't so don't. You can however move 12", disembark within 2", and charge 6" (with an additional d6" if you waagh!).

Therefore I say sluggas and choppas are better, double the attacks, usually hits on 4+ VS 5+, potentially greater range (waagh!), and the ability to swing a klaw around too. Very good for trukks.

Shootas would be pretty fun though, but I can see the trukks being destroyed fast, leaving the boyz stranded.

Hope thats helpful,

Mookie.

Ummm...Slugga boys DO NOT get double the attacks of shootas. If both units charge without shooting, slugga boys get one more attack than shoota boys. If both units take the time to fire before they assault, they get the exact same number of total attacks.

As for your other statements, Shoota boys have the longer threat range ( 6" move +18"gun), not Sluggas...they have the exact same range when using Waagh, btw. A Shoota boys' Nob can also take a PK, so I don't get your comment about the Sluggas getting one. Finally, Shootas are better against units you don't want to assault, such as Genestealers, etc.

Alerian wrote:

Ummm...Slugga boys DO NOT get double the attacks of shootas. If both units charge without shooting, slugga boys get one more attack than shoota boys. If both units take the time to fire before they assault, they get the exact same number of total attacks.

As for your other statements, Shoota boys have the longer threat range ( 6" move +18"gun), not Sluggas...they have the exact same range when using Waagh, btw. A Shoota boys' Nob can also take a PK, so I don't get your comment about the Sluggas getting one. Finally, Shootas are better against units you don't want to assault, such as Genestealers, etc.

Time for some sloppy mathhammer. 22 shots from 11 shota boyz and a nob at 18". 1/3 will hit, let's round up and call it 8. Half of those will wound against T4, for 4 wounds. A SM will pass 1/3 of those. That 24" 'threat' range represents 1 dead Space Marine. To me, that's not a threat. The Sluggas 21" full move/disembark charge routine causes 44 attacks and 4 PK strikes. Of those, 22 will hit a MEQ. Again, half willl wound for 11 wounds. A SM will still save 2/3. That's about 3 dead SM, before the claw steps in and knocks off another 2. Killing a combat squad is a threat.

Now, this is very sloppy mathhammer. To get a more accurate picture, you need to do the whole routine of how many Orks would be killed by the SM before they can swing, how many SM the shootas would kill before they charge, and many other factors.

My point is simply that a squad of trukk shoota boyz at standoff range are not a threat. A charging squad of sluggas is.

I have tried shootas in a trukk... it does not do enough to replace the slugga and choppa, the extra attack is vital to win combat with the low amount boyz....

In addition, The KFF makes trukks pretty durable but you are playing against the odds by only moving 6".... Just how many times can you roll a 4+ until you fail...

Gitzbitah wrote:

Alerian wrote:

Ummm...Slugga boys DO NOT get double the attacks of shootas. If both units charge without shooting, slugga boys get one more attack than shoota boys. If both units take the time to fire before they assault, they get the exact same number of total attacks.

As for your other statements, Shoota boys have the longer threat range ( 6" move +18"gun), not Sluggas...they have the exact same range when using Waagh, btw. A Shoota boys' Nob can also take a PK, so I don't get your comment about the Sluggas getting one. Finally, Shootas are better against units you don't want to assault, such as Genestealers, etc.

Time for some sloppy mathhammer. 22 shots from 11 shota boyz and a nob at 18". 1/3 will hit, let's round up and call it 8. Half of those will wound against T4, for 4 wounds. A SM will pass 1/3 of those. That 24" 'threat' range represents 1 dead Space Marine. To me, that's not a threat. The Sluggas 21" full move/disembark charge routine causes 44 attacks and 4 PK strikes. Of those, 22 will hit a MEQ. Again, half willl wound for 11 wounds. A SM will still save 2/3. That's about 3 dead SM, before the claw steps in and knocks off another 2. Killing a combat squad is a threat.

Now, this is very sloppy mathhammer. To get a more accurate picture, you need to do the whole routine of how many Orks would be killed by the SM before they can swing, how many SM the shootas would kill before they charge, and many other factors.

My point is simply that a squad of trukk shoota boyz at standoff range are not a threat. A charging squad of sluggas is.

Wow..you completely missed the ENTIRE point of my post. Either that, or you didn't really bother to fully read it...

Shootas boys can charge as well, with the loss of 1 attack per boy (when compared to Sluggas), for a total loss of 11 attacks, and have the exact same number of PK attacks...and this only happens with trukk boys on a waaagh turn. If both units shoot before they charge (drive 12", hop out, shoot, then charge) they get the same number of total attacks. Charging, both sluggas and shottas have the same threat range.

However, against things that you do not want to charge, such as Genestealers, Banshees, ets, the Shoota boys have a 24" shooting threat range. This makes shoota boys slightly less effective when charging on their Waagh turn, for the advantage of far more versatility...

No, I get that Alerian. My point is that the versatility you're talking about is about as effective as a Zzap gun on a Battlewagon.

11 shootas can't mass enough firepower to meaningfully harm any unit, let alone one of the nasty assault units that they'd like to avoid. If you end up fighting one less genestealer, you're still going to lose your whole unit. Trukk boyz should avoid dedicated assault units, regardless of what they're armed with.

As QuietOrkmi pointed out, those extra attacks happening in cc really help your combat resolution. To me, that far outweighs the extra 'threat' they can offer from shooting.

Lets look at this again... you want shootas so you can, "Shoota the choppa"... but you are inside a vehicle that can move 18" or move the occupants 14" for their assault...

20" Assault range is much better then 18" shoota range.

This is because on the first turn, you are typically moving too fast to shoot anything or everything worth shooting is out of range.

However, I have been down this road, the best way to see that it is not very effective is to use it...

157 Boyz: 10 Shootas, 1 Rokkit
Nob: Powerklaw, Slugga, Boss Pole
Trukk: Rokkit
Alternatively you can trade the rokkits for big shootas, and grab a boarding Plank so you can do something against vehicles.

Alerian,

It seems I was a bit unclear in my statement, but when I mentioned that sluggas get more attacks than shootas I was actually comparing the 2 shots of the shootas to the 4 attacks of the sluggas (sorry that was unclear). When you begin to compare then using both their shots, and attacks they both can throw out the same amount of strength 4 (5 each to be percise) when charging.

BUT, slugga boys have 4 strength 4 attacks that hit on (mostly) a 4+ or better, with one shot (slugga) hitting on a 5+. Shootas however only have 3 attacks hitting on a 4+, and 2 shots hitting on a 5+, and therefore I say that when shooting and assaulting, slugga boys are better at it.

You also say that both shoota boys and slugga boys have the same threat range when mounted in trukks, and you're absolutly right. But you've missed the vital point. That is that when comparing both units, when they both shoot before they charge, slugga boys are statistically better in almost all situations (Initiative will influence this, but this can be swung in your favor using tactics instead of maths) as the slugga boys will be able to cause more damage using their weapon skill of 4, than shootas can using their ballistic skill of 2. Gitzbitah has shown this in his previous post using the "sloppy mathhammer".

In short, sluggas are better on the charge than shootas (who would've thought it), and since you're usually using trukks to get in position for charges sluggas are best.

Hope that helps,

Mookie.

Personally I run my Trukks with Slugga boyz and I run my Battlewagons with Shoota boyz. I haven't tried the shootas in the trukk because I can't see 11 shootas do all that much. But I have seen two units of 18 shoota boyz take down a Space Elf Avatar in the first turn which made me LOL

I used to run shootas in a trukk, right next to sluggas in a trukk. I found that they were both good at punching things in the face. The extra 11 attacks the slugga boyz had didn't matter all that much as most of the time they crushed whatever they charged. Trukkboyz should be hitting fairly soft targets anyways, or ganging up on harder targets.

However, some targets I liked being able to pepper with bullets before charging them. (Like grey hunters) In those cases, the shoota boyz are better. A target that shoota boyz can't beat by charging, slugga boyz won't fare too much better against, but a unit that can be beaten by shooting then charging, only shoota boyz can beat.

Thanks to the WAAAGH though, you have to make a choice, shoot, or run for that turn2 charge. I've found that in most cases, it's better to run. In this case, the shoota seems kinda pointless, as you will never fire it. Not to say it isn't useful, (certainly better than a pistol) it just dosn't see much use in a trukk rush army. In a wagon rush army it's a bit different, but that's not the topic.

I think that this entire discussion is funny. Everyone is weighing in on the subject shootas vs. sluggas in trukks with no context of the list they're being used in, what they're being targeted at, what support is available or anything.

@OP: You asked me to post here with my thoughts, and here's what I'd tell you - both shootas and sluggas have a place in an ork army. It really depends on what you're planning on doing with them and how your list is built. If you tell me what kind of list you're planning on using, I can help tell you whether shootas or sluggas are more appropriate.

Off the cuff with the limited knowledge here, I'm going to make a couple of presumptions.
1. You're talking about orks in a trukk, so I'm presuming you're running a mechanized list.
2. Since you're running a mechanized list, I presume you also have Ghazghkull Thraka to maximize your utility.


I firmly believe that trukks are a delivery mechanism. They aren't a firing platform. No matter how you spin it, orks sitting inside a trukk, where the trukk is going to move 6" per turn so that the guys inside can fire is absolutely a mistake. A trukk can be wrecked by a bolter, and when it wrecks, 2/3 of the time its going to explode - doing a chunk of damage to the boyz inside. The trukk exists to move 12-13" forward and disgorge its contents so that they can shoot/assault the enemy.

Working off this presumption - that you're going to be using your transports as mobile assault delivery platforms....there is no use for shoota boyz sitting in a trukk and shooting. I'm not discounting the worth of shoota boys, but them using a trukk as a mobile firing platform is abhorrent, and tactically suicidal. Trukks in themselves are not sustainable; Bolters, autocannons, assault cannons, multi-lasers, scatter lasers, and everything else will make short work of them. Lascannons and railguns can hit the battlewagons, but all the STR4-7 weapons (of which folks have plenty) that can't really do anything to the battlewagons are going to beat on your trukks because they have nothing else to shoot at. Even if you're protecting them with a KFF, the 4+ cover is only good half the time and a bit of playtesting will show you that people DON'T ignore trukks because of more promising targets - they will take them down as quickly as possible because its the easiest way to break up the ork charge - take down pieces of the army so that they come in piecemeal.

Personally, I screen my trukks behind my battlewagons - they don't go up on the line.
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Now, with all that said....your sluggas or your shootas are going to be dropping out of your trukks in front of the enemy. How far in front of the enemy you drop is dependent on deployment and movement. From here, things get complicated.

1. Is there terrain between you and your opponent? If so, you'll have to 2d6 assault move. If you're more than 3" away, you probably want to fleet towards them to make sure you get the assault.
2. Is Ghazghkull in your army? He grants an auto-6" fleet.
3. If you shoot your enemy and cause 1-2 deaths....if they remove casualties from the front ranks, is that going to take them out of assault range?

Those are the things that come up with every unit dropping out of a transport and preparing to assault. If your playstyle lets you move 12-13" up in a trukk, have 11 shoota boyz unload 22 shots into the enemy, and get a guaranteed assault regularly....then take shoota boyz.

I play in a big pond these days, and I find that this isn't usually the case. I take slugga boyz because the times when I can shoot...when I don't need a 6" fleet move to put me into assault range and positioned how I need are rare.

IE, theoryhammer says that shoota boyz are superior to slugga boyz if both units get to shoot and assault an enemy. But on the table, where distance, terrain, dice rolls can influence whether you get to assault at all come into play - whether you shoot or fleet during your shooting phase becomes a *very* important subject.
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tl;dr - Slugga/choppas are realistically superior to shoota boyz for trukk contents.

I've posted this strategy with trukk shoota boyz several times before, but why not one more time.

In my BW at 1750 I have 3 BWs rushing forward with all my assaulty units (burnas, Nobz, sluggas). Aside from that I have two trukks full of shoota boyz w/ PK nob that I almost exclusively keep in reserve. With the mech heavy trend that has taken over recently, you're seeing a lot of stuff that can get in your face really quick (Eldar, BA vehicles, other Orks) not to mention drop pods and mycetic spores.

I keep the two trukks in reserve to act as an interceptor unit for this very reason. Since they're off the board they can't get blown up (as trukks love to do) not mention bringing them right to where the threat is without any risk of them taking wounds before they mess something up. In the trukk they can move 12" get out 2" fire their shootas and still be able to charge 6". A 20" assault threat while still being able to shoot is excellent, and even if you only take down 1 marine before you charge, thats 1 marine thats not gonna get to swing at your small squad of boyz.

They also work great for claiming home objectives late so you can dedicate the rest of your force to blindly charging forwards. In this situation shoota boyz are the only option as at least they can throw back some fire at something while still holding the objective. Slugga boyz are pretty much terrain when it comes to holding objectives.

I've also found that a 12 man squad of shoota boyz can pretty much handle anything that can get into your backfield with such speed. With a lone trukk interceptor unit I have killed (either outright or by breaking them in morale):

10 man Tac squad
10 avengers + farseer
Many dreadnoughts
Many carnifexes
3 man Oblit team (No idea why he brought them down in my half of the board but he did)
Outflanking Warwalkers
Termie squads(TH/SS termies)

and so on...

This isn't even counting when I've been able to converge both trukks on the same target.

IMHO the shoota trukks are the best way to go if you're looking for a more well-rounded list. They have more tactical capability than the standard slugga and are just better overall in the interceptor role.

indigo_jones wrote:
They also work great for claiming home objectives late so you can dedicate the rest of your force to blindly charging forwards. In this situation shoota boyz are the only option as at least they can throw back some fire at something while still holding the objective. Slugga boyz are pretty much terrain when it comes to holding objectives.

Enter the 40 point unit of 10 gretchin+Runtherder who come out of reserves later on and sit on that same objective.

Dashofpepper wrote:

indigo_jones wrote:
They also work great for claiming home objectives late so you can dedicate the rest of your force to blindly charging forwards. In this situation shoota boyz are the only option as at least they can throw back some fire at something while still holding the objective. Slugga boyz are pretty much terrain when it comes to holding objectives.

Enter the 40 point unit of 10 gretchin+Runtherder who come out of reserves later on and sit on that same objective.

And are blown off by a stiff breeze. The boyz in a trukk gives you a realistic holding threat on that objective.

indigo_jones wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

indigo_jones wrote:
They also work great for claiming home objectives late so you can dedicate the rest of your force to blindly charging forwards. In this situation shoota boyz are the only option as at least they can throw back some fire at something while still holding the objective. Slugga boyz are pretty much terrain when it comes to holding objectives.

Enter the 40 point unit of 10 gretchin+Runtherder who come out of reserves later on and sit on that same objective.

And are blown off by a stiff breeze. The boyz in a trukk gives you a realistic holding threat on that objective.

Blown off like a stiff breeze? Hardy man. Near the end of the game, Im pretty sure you boyz have hulk smashed into the lines by now, have killed things, have been killed, and most likely there are a mob or two still in assault. Im pretty sure by the end of the game, your opponent isnt going to be shooting at some grots in the back of the table.
If they are, then your plan back fired and your basically just hoping one survived, and made its LD test

Indeed.

Those 10 gretchin and a runtherder sit in cover gone to ground for a 3+ cover save and enjoy holding an objective and having a picnic. Pulling a trukk boy unit off the line to hold a rear objective is a colossal waste and a terrible failure of list-writing skills.

False. I apologize for not having the time to swim in all of the big ponds that Dash does, but I have found that I need an answer for fast vehicles(Eldar, Valks, Speeders), outflanking units, drop pods and spores coming fresh into my backfield as late as turn 5. The game has sped up and if you dedicate your entire force to moving forward while leaving your home objective to a group of T2 grotz, regardless of a 3+ cover, leads to a lot of games lost.

I haven't been in a lot of situations where 20 sluggas, Ghazzghul with 7 diversified nobz, and 15 burnas with a KFF Mek haven't been enough to destroy the bulk of any army. combined with loota support fire that alone is enough to beat anyone.

the trukk boyz are rarely simple objective holders. Most of the time they come on, blow something to bitz and then are able to actually DEFEND an objective rather than just sit on it. I have almost never been in a situation where I would be able to go to ground and the let a unit 'have a picnic' and just sit on an objective. This has nothing to do with my "terrible failure of list-writing skills" but with the new speed of the game. You need something that can come on the board late, hold its own, and take an objective.

If you need the extra 12 boyz on your front line to avoid being killed by your opponent than you aren't hitting the right spots with them. 12 shoota boyz in a trukk will not turn the tide of an initial ork rush when you already have the vast majority of your force heading there anyways.

Grotz are not good objective holders. I get it they're cheap, but when your getting wounded on 2+ from bolter shots, no amount of 3+ cover saves are gonna make a difference.

for around 100 points more I get a unit that has +1 Str +2 T, the ability to actually kill something, and double the mobility of your grot squad.

All I know is that the trukk interceptors have won me games time and time again, they are a counter to something that I see very often.

Very interesting idea, indigo_jones. I must admit, I'm always loathe to separate my forces when I'm running mech Orks. If you can win with 2 squads of trukk boyz mucking about in reserve, more power to you. I've found much more success making my opponent concentrate his forces by concentrating my own. BWs all but demand this approach with their weak side armor.

YMMV, of course. I'd much rather have, what, 200 more points to throw in the enemy's teeth and keep the 40 point grot unit pulling babysitting duty. Against anything but assaults, they're just about as durable as 12 boyz. They have 11 wounds and a reroll for their leadership in case they fail. Anything that can take that out from the other side of the board after weathering an Ork assault deserves to take that objective!

Dash, considering how nuanced your earlier post was, this one is a disappointment.

If your opponent has designed a good 5th ed list, he more than likely has something capable of getting into your backfield which can assault and kill a unit of Gretchin. Having a unit of Trukkboyz in reserve is not a bad plan, depending on points available and the context of the rest of the list.

But please feel free to rely exclusively on the Gretchin. Makes my games easier.

indigo_jones wrote:tide of an initial ork rush when you already have the vast majority of your force heading there anyways.

Grotz are not good objective holders. I get it they're cheap, but when your getting wounded on 2+ from bolter shots, no amount of 3+ cover saves are gonna make a difference.

I think you're creating some false dilemmas here, but this one deserves mention the most.

1. If bolters are firing at my gretchin, it means that multiple vehicles have either bypassed my main force for several turns, thereby bringing little firepower to bear on the brunt of my army just to get in range to shoot at a tiny unit, or it means that my opponent is committing deep-striking or outflanking units to my gretchin. In any of those cases, its a win for me.

2. If my opponent is shooting at my gretchin from range; that means there are lascannons, missile launchers, heavy bolters....the 36"+ ranged weaponry that can hurt the rest of my army being targeted at my gretchin.

3. Leaving gretchin undefended in the backfield isn't the subject of conversation here. My gretchin stay in reserves as long as possible, so threats don't manifest against them until later in the game, when the bulk of enemy forces have been dealt with or are otherwise committed. I can't speak for anyone elses' army lists, but my backfield usually has a couple squads of Lootas and possibly a deffkopta or two and maybe a deff-dread. People shooting at my gretchin is a GOOD thing.

There is simply no reason to spend 157 points or so on a trukk boy unit holding up the rear of the field; its antithetical to ork philosophy. Sometimes it will occur that you take the remnants of a trukk boy unit from combat in the front on turn2-3, and stick them back into a trukk, and zoom the trukk back to hold an objective on turn4-5.
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This WHOLE thing is beside the point - which is a discussion of shootas vs. sluggas in trukks. I've made my thoughts very clear on the matter - which is mostly that everyone is full of BS because there's no context for the OP's question. Back on topic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:Dash, considering how nuanced your earlier post was, this one is a disappointment.

If your opponent has designed a good 5th ed list, he more than likely has something capable of getting into your backfield which can assault and kill a unit of Gretchin. Having a unit of Trukkboyz in reserve is not a bad plan, depending on points available and the context of the rest of the list.

But please feel free to rely exclusively on the Gretchin. Makes my games easier.

Anytime you think you're man enough to stand up to my Orks with any list of your choosing, you know where Vassal is.

The problem is not the number of wound but the toughness!

Lets say for the sake of argument you've got a drop podding tac squad or sternguard or whatever coming at you. All you've got on your home objective is your 10 grotz and runtherd. They double tap with 20 shots hitting with 14ish and wounding with probably 12 of those. Considering you went to ground you've lost 4 grotz and need to take a morale test, even with a re-roll, which I think causes you to lose more grotz, you could still be running.

Compared with a group of 12 boyz. They shoot with 20 hit with 14 and wound with 7 on T4. You don't go to ground and save 3.5, with an ablative wound on the Nob. So 2-3 boyz dead. Even if they force a morale check you've still looking at Ld 9 with a Bosspole.

Okay you're turn. On one hand I have a group of grotz at near 1/2 str that can't do a damn thing but get pounded away next turn, if they're even still there.

On the other I have 8+ boyz and a PK Nob ready to shoot and assault that group of marines the hell away from me next turn. Kill a marine or two in shooting, then assault and take out the bulk of them. You're opponent has lost a bunch of pricey marines in exchange for a handful of boyz, and you still have the objective.

And considering you've got the bulk of your force already down his throat, how are you gonna get the marines off of your objective? Turn someone around (if their trukk is even still intact) that already defeats the purpose of you attack strategy, not to mention possibly wasting a turn or two in the process and exposing the trukk and boyz to fire the whole time.

*An important note to keep in mind. In my BW Ork list I run 2 squads of 12 lootas for my anti-transport. Anyone who plays me understands that this is my only reliable source of ranged anti-tank in the entire army, and I would say they are probably the most valuable units on the table. Being that they know this they take a lot of flak from deep strikers and outflankers, so the boyz serve to help protect them from getting destroyed too quickly.

I think what Dash is saying is...

Would you rather have 40 less points than your opponent or over 150 less than your opponent... Playing Mech orks means that you need to hit your opponent's line as fast and as hard as you can... if you piecemeal your army, they can take it apart.

If your opponent has designed a good 5th ed list, he more than likely has something capable of getting into your backfield which can assault and kill a unit of Gretchin. Having a unit of Trukkboyz in reserve is not a bad plan, depending on points available and the context of the rest of the list.

If you designed a good list, your opponent will not have the man-power to mind what is in the back field...

Objectives? With my Orks I play every mission like it's Annihilation.

The list I'm running now has three shoota boy mobs in trukks and they have been invaluable to me. The list I'm running is dreadbash, 9 kans w/ rokkits, 2 dreads, supported by 3-man nob squads in battlewagons, 6 rokkit buggies and 3 shoota boy trukk squads. The trukk squads give me several valuable roles:

1 - Mobility in a slow list. My list moves 6" up the field, firing 20+ rokkits/kannon shots out to scatter transports, pop dreads, and wreck tanks. Later in the game when I might need to sprint towards an objective or group? Done. Even if you blow up my trukk, I have a good chance to ramshackle towards it.

2 - Protection from small arms fire. Yes, bolters can scratch the trukk, but you need 6s to glance and there's always the KFF save. Then you need another 6 to wreck and ramshackle action. Much better than 4+ saves on small arms wounds. Further, shooting at them means no special/heavy weapons fire from those squads at my kans, which are the larger threat.

3 - Mobile Fire Base. Did my deffrolla just pop open a transport? Here come three trukks of shoota boyz to mop up the contents. They, along with the buggies, can also move and fire to help negate any maneuver by the enemy, if they try to swing to one side to overpower a flank.

4 - Mobile Power Klaws. Boarding planks, rams, and power klaws on a fast vehicle.

5 - Objective Holders. Like Indigo said, they are competent objective holders at the end, and if the trukk's still around, it's got a rokkit and a ram, so it's hardly useless. Also, I can use it as mobile cover to block LOS and impede enemy movement.

6 - Additional Fire Power. Rokkits from squad and trukk, giving me more tank/MC killing power. With BS2, every extra rokkit I can squeeze into the list helps.

7 - Distraction. As stated before, if you shoot at the trukks, you're not shooting at my kans and dreads which are much nastier.


Are shoota boyz in trukks ideal? Probably not. But given orks crappy options for small-sized or mobile troops, they aren't bad. In my list, I need scoring units and want something actually USEFUL as opposed to gretchin. Shoota trukks serve that purpose quite well for me, but I admit mine is not a traditional list.

QuietOrkmi wrote:I think what Dash is saying is...

Would you rather have 40 less points than your opponent or over 150 less than your opponent... Playing Mech orks means that you need to hit your opponent's line as fast and as hard as you can... if you piecemeal your army, they can take it apart.

If your opponent has designed a good 5th ed list, he more than likely has something capable of getting into your backfield which can assault and kill a unit of Gretchin. Having a unit of Trukkboyz in reserve is not a bad plan, depending on points available and the context of the rest of the list.

If you designed a good list, your opponent will not have the man-power to mind what is in the back field...

Keep in mind my backfield contains 24-30 Lootas. Any good player knows that if they leave those alone they'll get torn apart by their fire all game. A good player knows that the lootas are just as important as my BWs assaulting their lines, if not more important. Without the lootas I don't have any reliable ranged anti-transport so they put a certain amount of their force to come after the lootas. I can't think of a game that I have lost where my opponent hasn't taken out my lootas. If my lootas live, then I win, and a good player will realize this and dedicate a good amount of his force to come around and try and have at them.

If they don't do that and leave everything in a line for my BW force to assault fine. Even if all of those units get wiped, they certainly didn't go down without a fight and I;ve still got 2 very mobile scoring units to come in and get any objectives I need. After the dismantle the first rush (which doesn't happen) then I've got all my lootas to pick at them for the rest of the game, and that will at the very least even things out.

And as I've also stated before, I haven't met an opponent yet who can tear apart ghaazy 20 slugga and 15 burnas all with KFF protection. If that still counts as piecemeal then its a good enough piece for me.

I've also found that in most cases the shoota trukks are entertaining just as many points worth of men if not more. In this case there is exactly the same amount, mostly more, of points away from their front lines so I'm still looking at an even fight with my BW rush.

I personally think that fracturing armies like Eldar and Marines is much more damaging as they rely on a lot of synergy with their units. Most Ork units are capable of delivering an absurd amount of pain on something all by itself. The way I see it is if they want to fracture and split their army all the better for me.

So all this disagreement....

The only obvious answer is for us to get onto Vassal and put it to the test!

indigo_jones, you think my choices are wrong, I think yours are worse....the only way to find out who's ideas are better are to pit them against each other and find out. Get Vassal. Theoryhammer is fun but useless, and you'll never convince me that you know better than I do - you're going to have to show me.

Slugga and choppa,and a power klaw...period