Battlewagon: Deff Rolla AND Boarding Plank AND Grabbin' Klaw?

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**SAJ**

I'm new to using battlewagons, and would appreciate advice on their upgrades. I plan to use them as a transport, but if my opponent presents and opportunity to use it for AT, I'd like to be able to.

As a minimum, I plan to run the wagons with a deff rolla, big shoota, and armor plates. There will be a Mek in the mix, so I'm not looking at grot riggers as part of the 'minimum'.

However, I notice a lot of players taking boarding planks and grabbin' klaws along with the rollas, and I'm wondering how often this gear gets used. It seems that if you could use either the rolla or the plank, you'd want to always use the rolla. Does the risk of damaging the wagon really outweigh the rolla hits on your opponent? Are you guys running into situations where the plank is usable but the rolla is not? (if so, please describe, I'm having a hard time coming up with that scenario)

Thanks

**Kirasu**

Boarding planks are amazing becuase the model (nob or warboss) gets to make its full amount of power klaw attacks without getting out..

Grabbin klaw is alright, but its only good 50% of the time and doesnt destroy the vehicle where as boarding plank doesnt need a 4+ to use

**SAJ**

Is there any point to having both the deff rolla and the boarding plank?

**Shake Zoola**

SAJ wrote:Is there any point to having both the deff rolla and the boarding plank?

For when a skimmer dodges out of the way...

**Geemoney**

This is my minimum: Death Rolla, Grots, Red, Big shoota it runs about 135 pt i believe
Thats not a bad idea to use the boarding planks on skimmers....

**Nurglitch**

The Grabbing Klaw is a really good idea. Immobilizing enemy vehicles for Power Klaws and Tankbusta Bombs, as well as making sure that they can't get away from your Boarding Plank and Deff Rolla is great.

**schadenfreude**

Nurglitch wrote:The Grabbing Klaw is a really good idea. Immobilizing enemy vehicles for Power Klaws and Tankbusta Bombs, as well as making sure that they can't get away from your Boarding Plank and Deff Rolla is great.

On top of being abe to dodge the death roller most skimmers will always be moving fast enough that a boarding plank nob will need 6s to hit. Grabbing claws are good because an immobile scimmer that close to orks is a dead scimmer.

**Shake Zoola**

Geemoney wrote:This is my minimum: Death Rolla, Grots, Red, Big shoota it runs about 135 pt i believe
Thats not a bad idea to use the boarding planks on skimmers....

Drop the red and you have my transport BW!

I always take at least 2 like this...one w a fully tricked out nob squad and warboss

the other w 20 sluggaz and a PK nob...

EDIT:
throw on armor plates and you have a transport that is sure to get your boyz a krumpin by turn 2 and the rolla will almost always be usable!

**QuietOrkmi**

I try to have all my units with a way to deal with LR...

My battlewagons are the following...
Big Shoota
Grot Riggers
Deff Rolla
Boarding Planks
Grabbin Claw

The above runs me at 130 points...

**Skarboy**

I tend to not include the Grabbin' Klaw. Had 'em for a long time, rarely had a chance to use them, then only 50/50 chance. With the deffrolla and boardin' plank, didn't really see the point after awhile. If you have nothing else to buy for 5 points, maybe...

**SAJ**

On the boarding plank...is it 2" from where it's mounted, or 2" from any point of the hull?

**MagicJuggler**

I actually prefer the Ard Case instead of Armor Plates myself. Mainly because I use Battlewagons primarily as anti-tank, so they get to transport a Mek (who has a Powerfist for punching vehicles) and some Grots (so the Wagon scores).

**Skarboy**

SAJ wrote:On the boarding plank...is it 2" from where it's mounted, or 2" from any point of the hull?

It's not specific, so hull. I have not seen a FAQ that says otherwise. Considering you can pivot on the spot for free, it's sorta moot either way.

**Geemoney**

MagicJuggler wrote:I actually prefer the Ard Case instead of Armor Plates myself. Mainly because I use Battlewagons primarily as anti-tank, so they get to transport a Mek (who has a Powerfist for punching vehicles) and some Grots (so the Wagon scores).

How does that work out for you? As a rule I never the ard case on any of my ork vehicles......ever.

**MagicJuggler**

Again, I don't use the Battlewagons as transports in most my builds. Because if you give them the Deffrolla and full accessory loadout, then give them the retinue on top, they end up costing almost like Land Raiders with Assault Terminators, while lacking the same manuverability. Add the Deffrolla's making the vehicle sides bigger, and an AV 12 open-topped transport is a very fragile target for the cost.

**JSK-Fox**

'Ard Case doesn't help out Orks too much, as that is a lot less people who can fire. Instead, just let em all shoot.

**MagicJuggler**

If you're using it as a Deffrolla wagon, you'll most likely be moving at Cruising Speed anyway and thus cannot fire. 4th edition gunboat wagons are no good now.

**Krak_kirby**

MagicJuggler wrote:Again, I don't use the Battlewagons as transports in most my builds. Because if you give them the Deffrolla and full accessory loadout, then give them the retinue on top, they end up costing almost like Land Raiders with Assault Terminators, while lacking the same manuverability. Add the Deffrolla's making the vehicle sides bigger, and an AV 12 open-topped transport is a very fragile target for the cost.

A battlewagon with an RPJ is 1" more manueverable than a land raider, and open topped means orks can deploy anywhere within 2" to boot. A Mek with a KFF mitigates enemy fire to a certain extent, and by the time the battlewagon has rolled a few targets and deployed 20 boys or a big nob squad into enemy lines, I'm not so concerned about it's survival. My big mek and his crew can weld them back together after the fight with some spiffy new stuff from the army I just wrecked...

**ChrisCP**

MagicJuggler wrote: Add the Deffrolla's making the vehicle sides bigger,

This isn't true unless you are playing house rules...

**DarthSpader**

id advise against ard cases....the biggest edge to your orc vehicles is the open topped nature, allowing you to unload and charge in the same turn. ard case takes that away.

the rolla is awsome. plain and simple.
i love the grabbin claw.... i use it in a tag team with the wreckin ball and the boarding plank. drive up, grab em, have your nob/warboss hit it via the plank, and if its still ticking, the wrecker can delever a nice shot to boot. the claw makes sure that your foe cant get away. while you feed it some shots. i like to think of it as the ork meks "ground and pound" technique. its a pricey combo though, mainly because im usualy loading up 4 rokkits the red paint, riggers and plates to boot.

**Geemoney**

ChrisCP wrote:
MagicJuggler wrote: Add the Deffrolla's making the vehicle sides bigger,

This isn't true unless you are playing house rules...

Oh my God...not this again......lol

@MagicJuggler
I can see your point, if you have nothing in the wagon that you want out of the wagon.
I use mine as a transport, I like to be able to assault 21" (13+2+6) with the nobz in the BW. Or shot out of it with lootas. You can't do these things with a hard case. I like them because they are the most survivable ork transport.
I wanted to know how your tank hunting goes, because unless my opponent is not paying attention I'm never really able to use the deffrolla on tanks. Most often if I really want to kill a tank i have to jump out of the BW with the warboss.
Your right that as far as cost goes I'm paying more for the nobz, but they are much more dangerous and harder to kill then a Mek and a bunch of grots. And while a land raider may be better then a BW, I think nobz, are better then assault termies. In the end it equals out.

**augustus5**

Never leave home without a fresh coat of red paint on your wagons and trukks.

**CommissarKhaine**

The main advantage of a boarding plankl (IMO) is vs dreads. If an ironclad does a death or glory vs a battlewagon, you're toast; A drive-by slapping with a PK nob will give him a good few hits without it being able to damage your BW... Unless I'm wrong about the ruling, of course

**MagicJuggler**

Spader:
I'd argue the best advantage of the BattleWagon was it's the closest counter to a Land Raider that the Orks have. Also, I find that the Assault Terminators end up winning overall, though this of course depends on a lot of other factors. But between the 3+ invulnerable, and instant-deathing your Nobz, you have to kill two Terminators for every Nob he kills to tie.

Also, the idea of the Battlewagon being used as a Loota platform? SO you're reducing the number of valid targets your opponent has to shoot at, and making it that on a single lucky roll, he can prevent the entire unit from shooting back? All while ensuring that a good penetrating hit has a decent chance of asploding the Lootas?

Geemoney:
The point is that the Battlewagon by itself is dangerous. By throwing as many dangerous threats as you can possibly throw down on the table, rather than making a small number of high-threat even more dangerous, you have a better chance of overwhelming your opponent's firepower. As for tank-hunting, it varies from game-to-game. I brought the Lootas for a reason, that reason being ranged anti-vehicle (shaken/stunned vehicles don't fire back after all).

**rfer**

The Grabbing Klaw is very useful to deal with smart players who place a skimmer in from of your BW to prevent you from Tank Shocking.

**Gitzbitah**

I've used the 'Ard case on a killcannon wagon before. I only loaded it up with grots, then rolled it slowly forward until it was over an objective. It worked out fairly well.

**Dashofpepper**

I think everything that needs to be said pretty much has. I've been running Battlewagon Orks for quite a while now, long before the Deffrolla FAQ ruling.

I use Deffrolla, boarding plank, grabbin' klaw, big shoota, armor plates, grot riggers on ever battlewagon, and here's why:

Deffrolla: Obvious rerolls for dangerous terrain, and its application in killing vehicles is also obvious.

Boarding Plank: The Deffrolla isn't a guaranteed thing. Not by ANY stretch of the imagination. Its not uncommon for me to ram into a parking lot, smack a vehicle around and be stopped....within 2" of another vehicle...that you get to boarding plank now.

Grabbin' Klaw: A common anti-ork tactic with Tau, Eldar, DE players (and sometimes even IG) is to flat out a skimmer in front of a battlewagon; its got a 4+ cover save from moving fast, and when you try ramming through it gets to dodge on a 3+. Now, you don't get to go anywhere. :( Thus the grabbin' klaw to hold them still so you can auto-hit them the following turn with your boarding planks! Especially useful against Land Raiders, where you already need a 4+ or 5+ to glance....making all the swings count instead of needing 4+ or 6+ to hit is invaluable.

Grot Riggers: While my Big Mek has his tools, that's only good once per turn, and only has a 50% chance of working. Redundancy is important.

Armor Plates: Speed is the key, and stunned results (not that uncommon) are bad news.

I don't use the rest. I use one gun per wagon - it is only there to absorb a weapon destroyed result. Moving 12" per turn, I don't have an opportunity to shoot it anyway. Red Paint....I stopped using it. Ghazghkull and friends already have a 28" or so assault range, adding +1 to that doesn't mean a whole lot when you practice it enough times.

**SAJ**

The point about using the boarding plank against skimmers was enough to sell me, but the idea of ramming into the 'parking lot' and being able to damage multiple vehicles may have pushed the plank into the mandatory category (as one of those situations happens in a large percentage of games)

Time to launch another points search and see where I can trim...

**porkuslime**

Where on a bog-standard GW BW is there a place to stick a Boarding Plank, other than the end of the troop area?

I tried sticking one there, and it looked REALLY goofy. Anyone ever tried to stick on up by the cab door? Or is this something that looks better lying inside the troop area on the floor...

**Dashofpepper**

Keep in mind that boarding planks come with trukks, but battlewagons don't come with them. IE, a boarding plank can be whatever you say it is. IE, on my battlewagons, I have built up walls on the back, and in real combat, those would be dropping down onto enemy vehicles....because I say so.