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 felixcat wrote:
I'm ogf the opinion you need neither orkinstar or canoptek harvest to field a heavy cc list. The best back up cc in the codex is plain flayed ones with a decurion detachment.

Spoiler:

Necrons (Decurion)
(Reclamation Legion) - 765
Nemesor Zahndrekh
6 Immortals
11 Warriors
10 Warriors
2x 5 Tomb Blades (Shield Vanes, Nebuloscopes, Particle Beamers)
(Flayed Ones) - 585
3x 15 Flayed Ones
(Living Tomb Formation) - 500
Obelisk
Monolith

On turn two Zahndrekh can choose the warlord trait that adds 1 to reserve rolls. In comes your monolith and warriors and any flayed ones in reserve. Dep striking is risky with big units of course but it is a calculated risk with great rewards.
The Living Tomb formation is a bit silly. An Obelisk is now one of the best buys in the Necron codex. It creates a huge ’no-fly’ zone and pumps out 20 S7 shots ( and then 2 more for each 6). This is impressive as it can also split fire. As well it has living metal and thunderblitz. Thunderblitz is really really good on this unit. As part of the living tomb formation it NOT an LoW.
Flayed Ones point for point do more damage then wraiths now. Shred and 5 attacks on the charge means 75 S4 attacks when charging with a squad with rerolls to wound . With enhanced RP rolls they are not easy to remove either. All that for 195 points plus infiltrate.

I'm not going to kill and WKs but I can tie them up. I can cetrtainly be a pain in the but for Tyranids - the Obelisk is a great unit thunderblitzing, btw. .

Except you can't really tie up WKs. The Flayed Ones aren't Fearless unless you put Zahndrekh in there, and he'll get killed out pretty fast. It's not the Attacks you have to fear from the Wraithknight on units like that - it's the Stomps. All he needs to do is get one 6 on a Stomp over Big Z and that unit is toast.

Better bet with a list like that against GCs would be to spread the Flayed Ones around to be sacrificial, and kill off whatever else you can.

Ffyllotek wrote:
Royal court of tacticians,

I am playing orks next week and want to know how competitive the death bringer flight is. I am considering a 4 doom scythes, a fairly strong decurion with at least 5 warrior squads, maxed out tomb blades, and 20 flayed ones to go with my lord. Idea is to have a lot of models on the table with a massive blanket of air cover to roll back the on coming tide. Any ideas?

Thanks, Ff

I would agree with some of the other posts about how you might find the deathbringer formation a little less effective against orks. As a primary Ork player its true we have access to some stuff that the death ray would be good against (Nauts, MANz, Bikes), perhaps 4 is a little overkill. I would much rather face some high Str small blasts compared to tesla. Generally I will have either plenty of vehicles like trukks and wagons, or i'll have plenty of boyz on foot. Single shot lance weapons in reality aren't great unless you get an explodes result on me, which yes it can happen, but equally you could roll low. All our vehicles are open-topped as it is, the nightscythe with its tesla will be far more effective imo.

Personally, I would be more scared if you dropped the formation down to 2 doomscythes (as the blasts will be useful for focussing and doubling out bikers and MANz and tough units), plus the -LD would be useful if you can get it to take effect. Then with the extra points brought something that put out more volume or larger blasts. Im just thinking, if this is a competitive game and say your facing the greentide, 4 small blasts a turn for 640 points... well even if that's say 5 orks per blast, your still only removing 20 at most. Not to mention how difficult the large footprint could make placing the doomscythes once they have arrived.

Thank you for the comments and advice... I will go away and do some more thinking...

I think a blast template that can instant death multi wound models and things would be effective along with some tesla shots against orks. Maybe not four of them but It does not sound bad to me. I'd never keep 640 pts in reserve as a pre game plan though

So - has anyone used Allies lately? I've been tapping my brain trying to find reasons to use Allies (not CtA, for obvious reasons) and haven't come up with much.

CSM I could see bringing for Be'Lakor/Daemon Princes. Most of their other stuff doesn't hold a candle to the Necron versions. Maybe Chosen for special weapons, or Oblits/Havocs for heavy weapons? I guess if you want to be "funny", you could ally in a Brass Scorpion for a combat-worthy Superheavy. Bringing Sorcs for Psychic presence isn't bad - more Denial dice, and the possibility to throw a Malediction on an enemy, but missing out on Blessings for our main Necrons means a lot of that power is somewhat wasted.

Tau actually don't seem that bad. If you go Assaultcron, having Tau as your back field firebase is pretty solid. Even with our shooting, most of it is mid-range, so some Tau behind an Aegis line or in a Bastion isn't a bad idea. Destroyers > Battlesuits, though.

Orks don't feel great to me. First, Desperate Allies makes them significantly weaker than the previous two. Second, there's only a few units that I feel fill a role that we can't fill. MANz gives a 2+ save unit, which is nice, but Lychguard/Praetorians are basically the same thing but single wound. Burna units and Loota units are something without a real comparable unit in our book, but also I feel that those aren't roles we really need to fill. Mek Gun artillery, though, isn't too bad.

Khorne Daemonkin being AoC with us is relatively new. Khorne Hound units are available to us now. More numerous in bodies/wounds than Wraiths or Lychstars, and can make a great, fast, scouting screen for our shooting units. Bloodthirsters and Daemon Princes are good (FMCs with Assault power), but pretty expensive. I feel like a Hound unit with a Chaos Lord or Herald is the best thing to ally in out of this.


What are your experiences or ideas?

I always thought that the 5 Talos formation would be a fun addition, maybe as an alternative to Wraiths.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
I always thought that the 5 Talos formation would be a fun addition, maybe as an alternative to Wraiths.

or with the wraith formation?
Wraiths for fast moving tarpit, with 5 talos moving up the field to do all the crushing?

If you're going to run Tau as allies I'd say do the firebase formation with the broadsides being all missile with EWO(interceptor for 5 pts a model)

So tell me Dakkadakka, how you deal with Eldar seer council?

They can't hit and run, so tying them down with a large Warrior block/Wraiths should work. Their weapons don't have an AP, so even warriors are very resilient.

No, but they have fleshbane. Also they can have an absurd number of psychic buffs and debuffs.

My only game vs one ended with it killing 2 full units of Tomb Blades and tying a large blob of warriors.

 Tyran wrote:
No, but they have fleshbane. Also they can have an absurd number of psychic buffs and debuffs.

My only game vs one ended with it killing 2 full units of Tomb Blades and tying a large blob of warriors.

Eldar in general are really tough to deal with. The psychic phase sucks for us in general. You just need to focus on them if you need them deaded. Make them take their four ups instead of 3's. I've found no real special tactic for this would love to hear if they exist

So the FAQ got taken down on the GW main site. new FAQ soon(tm)?

Oberron wrote:
So the FAQ got taken down on the GW main site. new FAQ soon(tm)?

One could only hope!

It's been removed for a while now. If it's not up by the time the next codex drops (SM?), I wouldn't count on seeing it again.

I remember FW releasing a statement saying they were working on a 7th ed FAQ update for their Necron stuff (particularly IA12)... wonder whatever happened with that?

 skoffs wrote:
It's been removed for a while now. If it's not up by the time the next codex drops (SM?), I wouldn't count on seeing it again.

I remember FW releasing a statement saying they were working on a 7th ed FAQ update for their Necron stuff (particularly IA12)... wonder whatever happened with that?

Where did you read that?!

Has anybody ran into the Admech/ Knight formation from the White Dwarf yet? Its quite pricey, but getting all upgrades free and having Canticles of the Omnissiah on your whole army is no joke. I'm trying to figure out the best way to fight my buddy when he inevitably picks up the Cult models he needs for the formation.

Forgeworld will post the updated IA12 book after they update the IA Eldar book for the 6th Edition Eldar codex.

MonumentOfRibs wrote:
Has anybody ran into the Admech/ Knight formation from the White Dwarf yet? Its quite pricey, but getting all upgrades free and having Canticles of the Omnissiah on your whole army is no joke. I'm trying to figure out the best way to fight my buddy when he inevitably picks up the Cult models he needs for the formation.

I'd probably be most worried about:

-The Knight, because duh: Superheavy.
-Grav Kataphrons.
-If he maxes out the Dunecrawler unit you'll have to deal with three 4++ 3HP walkers with IWND spitting S10 AP1 blasts backed by two heavy stubbers each and a potential charge to finish off that last little pocket of resistance in the unit they targeted. Prohibitively expensive in a regular mechanicus army, not so much here where all the upgrades are free.

...But other than that? You just have some MSU to wrap up.

Knights aren't scary if you build to fight them. That basically means Heavy Destroyers, lots of things that can glance in CC (Scarabs, Wraiths, etc), or lots of Warscythes and a way to get them to the Knight. Heavy Destroyers being the best, imo, since Warscythes are slow and most other Assault options are mediocre at best. Alternatively, look into Sentry Pylons, because the Death Ray and Heat Ray variants are frickin phenominal.

Gravs don't scare me too much. Wounding on 3s/4s with AP2 is good, but they can't ID our multi wound units and they don't ignore RP. Besides, aside from one turn of having rerolls to hit, they're BS4.

Dunecrawlers are kinda scary, but it depends on what they load out with. Most of the time I'd just ignore them and take on the rest, since trying to kill good AV with 4++ is annoying on a good day.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
It's been removed for a while now. If it's not up by the time the next codex drops (SM?), I wouldn't count on seeing it again.

I remember FW releasing a statement saying they were working on a 7th ed FAQ update for their Necron stuff (particularly IA12)... wonder whatever happened with that?

Where did you read that?!

FW is worse than GW about FAQ, you can email them the same question from 10 addresses and get the same answer to all of them, but they can't be bothered to put that info on a PDF online?

I had an 1850 match against tournament daemonkin, it was supposed to be helping a pal get his list polished. I ran a D cult 2+1 and a unit of 2 heavy, as well as a canoptek harvest. 3x2 tomb blades 19 warriors, and 10x2 warriors. It was not very pretty. Wraiths and the d-cult in the same list is down right disgusting.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I had an 1850 match against tournament daemonkin, it was supposed to be helping a pal get his list polished. I ran a D cult 2+1 and a unit of 2 heavy, as well as a canoptek harvest. 3x2 tomb blades 19 warriors, and 10x2 warriors. It was not very pretty. Wraiths and the d-cult in the same list is down right disgusting.

Sounds pretty vicious.
Was it Decurion or CAD?
Did you post a complete army list / battle report anywhere?

Decurion, I didn't post the list, but I can right now. I will also note we played ITC at his request, so wraiths are not slowed by terrain.

Reclimation -877
Overlord - warscythe
5 immortals - gauss
3 tomb blades - scopes/shield/gauss
3 tomb blades - scopes/shield/gauss
3 tomb blades - scopes/shield/gauss
18 warriors
10 warriors
10 warriors

Canoptek Harvest -325
3 scarabs
1 spyder
6 wraiths - whip coils

Destroyer cult - 645pt
Destroyer lord - phase shifter/ scythe
2 destroyers, 1 Hdestroyer
2 destroyers, 1 Hdestroyer
2 destroyers, 1 Hdestroyer
2 Hdestroyers

As for a battle report, I remember it all too clearly thanks to my epileptic Sunday.
Vanguard strike, 4 objectives, all placed near my deployment zone or in it.
I got table side and first turn. I got zealot for trait, he got infiltrate D3.
He held all but a rhino with bloodletters and 2 spawn in reserves almost out of sight of everything. 1 heavy destroyer was able to see the rhino, blew it up first turn with some serious luck. Took out 4 of the bloodletters. I shifted my forces to spread everything out, I took up about 1/3rd of the table.
He moved his bloodletters a little bit to hide more, spawn ran out to try to spook some of my tomb blades who were near.
Turn 2, I move around a little more, make a screen with my wraiths to give cover and make a heafty threat bubble. I take out a few more bloodletters and wound a spawn. Tomb blades and destroyers spread out and grab some good firing areas.
He has both heldrakes, 1 soul grinder, a soul grinder, 2 cultist, 1 posessed and his HQ fancy unit arrive from reserves. HQ unit was I think chosen, lord with axe/fist and herald with hatred. They plop out of the rhino and are within charge distance of some destroyers. I lost a full unit of tomb blades from heldrakes, took no other damage. His possessed got stuck on a far table edge, and were shot at by destroyers and tomb blades all game.
I scoot everything around some more, my scarabs charge his cultists who plopped out near some warriors. Move wraiths to get to his chosen HQ unit. I unleash some hell, kill a bundle, cause a bunch of wounds to his bloodthirster and even shake a soul grinder that fails its +2 save against it. Wraiths make a 9" charge into the chosen, destroyers all bump around, possessed lose 3 dudes, scarabs charge cultsts. Both spawn go down to 1 wound each.
His turn, some cultists charge into the wraiths to pull wounds off his chosen unit, lots of stuff flies off the table. Bloodthirster down to 1 wound, spawn dies in overwatch, other one dies in CC. Bloodthirster is summoned, HQ turns into bloodthirster. Second soul grinder finally arrives, but dies due to mishap. HQ unit is removed, as is the cultist unit, as is the rhino they arrived in.

On turn 6, he has 2 drakes and 2 bloodthirsters. I have all units but some tomb blades that got nastified by heldrakes. I sat on all objectives, but he was able to shift around and contest all of them. I completely forgot about contesting and could have moved my destroyers and warriors to block off 2 of them.
In the end I won 1-0, as I had first blood, we both had linebreaker, and while I killed his HQ, it came back as a bloodthirster and I did not kill it.

My opponent was nice and let me proxy the heavy destroyers. They did work, lots of it. Having a unit of them was really useful. They camped out in the middle and shot at whatever they wanted. Got first blood, and jacked up a soul grinder. Will be converting some guns to use pretty soon. think the destroyer cult might be my new favorite thing.

I5 at all times on the wraiths was really impressive as well. His herald went first, but then I just obliterated everything else.

Praetorians: for those people who use them, how do you deploy?
On the table and have them move up? Deep strike? (I won't bring up Night Scythes, as thanks to the complete absence of the FAQ, we now have no word on how that's supposed to work)
What's the pros/cons of each way?

 skoffs wrote:
Praetorians: for those people who use them, how do you deploy?
On the table and have them move up? Deep strike? (I won't bring up Night Scythes, as thanks to the complete absence of the FAQ, we now have no word on how that's supposed to work)
What's the pros/cons of each way?

I typically Deep Strike but it depends on my opponent. I frequently fight people with Thunderfire Cannons. I use Praetorians to deep strike near the Thunderfire and wipe it out with rods. (Judicator giving them rerolls)

If there's nothing hiding in my opponent's backfield for me to kill then I'll just deploy on the field and use them to counter assault.

Deep Strike is better with Rod Praetorians in min units. Suddenly dropping short ranged AP2 is pretty good.

Voidblade Praetorians I feel want to be in larger numbers to take advantage of their number of attacks. And DSing big units sucks, so I would err on the side of starting them on the table and cautiously moving them.

Oberron wrote:
So the FAQ got taken down on the GW main site. new FAQ soon(tm)?

It's strange that it's no longer listed on the GW FAQ site, since a quick google search still has the PDF there, as well as on the Black Library site (mind you Black Library doesn't seem up to date compared to GW). Not that any of it applies to the new codex anyway.

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Necrons_EN.pdf
http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html

Two general rules of thumb:

It's usually a bad idea to deep strike combat units unless you can reliably do it in an early turn, and have a strategy in place to keep them from being focused down.

It's always a bad idea to deep strike jump troops. The only exception I can think of here is Acanthrites for their 12 inch range Melta weapons.

Otherwise just be on the table and actually use your 12 inch airborne move.

changemod wrote:
Two general rules of thumb:

It's usually a bad idea to deep strike combat units unless you can reliably do it in an early turn, and have a strategy in place to keep them from being focused down.

It's always a bad idea to deep strike jump troops. The only exception I can think of here is Acanthrites for their 12 inch range Melta weapons.

Otherwise just be on the table and actually use your 12 inch airborne move.

Well, that depends on what you're using them for. Deep Striking Rod Praetorians from the Judicator Battalion is fine. They have Move Through Cover, so unless they go off the board or into another unit, they can't hurt themselves. Or, you can get MTC by allying in an IC with it.

You can consider a 5 man team with Rods to be less of a combat unit and more of a special weapons unit that just happens to be pretty good in Assault as well. S5 AP2 guns are going to do well against MEQs and TEQs, and they're durable enough to survive even if they scatter into a bad position. And if they get charged, well, they're tough, good in Assault, and are Fearless. Rods aren't fantastic weapons and they're not going to wow you in the same way that Sternguard in Drop Pods will, but it's nifty to consider.

I would agree about Deep Striking Acanthrites as well, though, for the Meltaguns. But they're awkward now compared to Wraiths and they can't get Move Through Cover without taking an IC so it's just kinda meh in my book.

I find that a one in six chance of needing to roll an armour save isn't a big deal, even across an entire unit. Near absolute aggression in terms of movement tends to pay off with jump units in my experience.

Anyhow, the issue with dropping five rod praetorians vs just charging them up through cover is a couple of things:


-Chance of late arrival coupled with already not having an issue getting where they need to be.
-Since you can't shoot and charge, you lose out on some of the damage you'd have the option of doing by approaching conventionally.
-Of the dedicated assault units Necrons have, Praetorians are proportionately the least durable, and thus the one you least want to draw attention to themselves with a flashy entrance and take a turn of uncontested shooting,
-Necrons very strongly benefit tactically from saturating the enemy with multiple visible threats, to force either split responses that don't kill much off, or focus fire that leaves other threats free to act.

Whereas the benefit seems to simply be 5 AP2 shots from an unexpected direction.

And yes, all four forge world Canoptek units need updated. Stalkers and Sentinels are slow, Acanthrites filled a niche that Wraiths expanded into and Sentry Pylons have an overpriced Icarus Lascannon from the interceptor nerf.