Latest Forge World news and rumour thread : page 99 Quad mortar, pintle weapons, transfers

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**endlesswaltz123**

For anyone who likes anime mecha'esq stuff, the Tau mech is everything it should be (and since anime is inspiration to the tau, it is very fitting). you can just imagine that thing letting rip with all of it's weapons at once, decimating a whole battle line with one salvo.

like this.

Epic.

**Kepora**

I agree 100% with the comparison of it to a heavy weapons platform, as opposed to big & stompy like the Imperium and melee "robot" like Eldar. It looks like it's made to march in, plant it's feet, and blow away anyone dumb enough to stand against it.

And I love that.

**Yodhrin**

aka_mythos wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?

I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
It's a similar knee jerk by some whenever the Imperium discovers a new STC template or pulls centurion armor out of thin air. It flys in the face of what people think makes sense in their rationalized bubble of an irrational fictional setting. I think it's pretty silly to think the army that draws inspiration from Japanese animation shouldn't have towering giant mecha.

You know, I think I'm going to type up a little essay regarding the value of internal consistency in a fictional setting and why people who get all passive-aggressive when folk discuss new additions to an IP in that context need to think again, that way when this disturbingly frequent fatuous criticism pops up I can just post that and save myself typing it out every time - the complaint barely ever changes, so there's no real need to tailor the response either

**MajorWesJanson**

I hope this thing comes out in like 2 months. I'll have my Warlord paid off by then (and hopefully finished built and started painting) so I can grab this thing.

It's 1/3 Riptide, 1/3 Destroid Monster, and 1/3 GDI Juggernaut from Tiberian Sun: Firestorm.

**Kepora**

Yodhrin wrote:
aka_mythos wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?

I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
It's a similar knee jerk by some whenever the Imperium discovers a new STC template or pulls centurion armor out of thin air. It flys in the face of what people think makes sense in their rationalized bubble of an irrational fictional setting. I think it's pretty silly to think the army that draws inspiration from Japanese animation shouldn't have towering giant mecha.

You know, I think I'm going to type up a little essay regarding the value of internal consistency in a fictional setting and why people who get all passive-aggressive when folk discuss new additions to an IP in that context need to think again, that way when this disturbingly frequent fatuous criticism pops up I can just post that and save myself typing it out every time - the complaint barely ever changes, so there's no real need to tailor the response either

Be sure to keep us posted on that!

**BlaxicanX**

Formosa wrote:
Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?

I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.

I don't give a gak about it being a pseudo-titan, I just think it looks ridiculous and not at all fitting in with the Tau aesthetic/design philosophy, just like the Riptide and its variants.

It's also kind of lazy. We already have Tau in powered suits, then they made Tau in bigger powered suits (Riptide), then made two variants of that bigger powered suit, and now they're making an even bigger powered suit. It's like Centurions; "Space Marines are really popular, how can we capitalize on that? I know, let's put Space Marines inside of a bigger Space Marine!"

More power to the people who are feelin it, but I'd prefer like a giant Kroot Dragon or a Vespid Broodmother or something instead.

**WrentheFaceless**

I hope they have some rules soon+

And it looks very Tau

**MeanGreenStompa**

Tau heavy walker is a beast, I really like it.

**warboss**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?

I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
I don't give a gak about it being a pseudo-titan, I just think it looks ridiculous and not at all fitting in with the Tau aesthetic/design philosophy, just like the Riptide and its variants.

It's also kind of lazy. We already have Tau in powered suits, then they made Tau in bigger powered suits (Riptide), then made two variants of that bigger powered suit, and now they're making an even bigger powered suit. It's like Centurions; "Space Marines are really popular, how can we capitalize on that? I know, let's put Space Marines inside of a bigger Space Marine!"

More power to the people who are feelin it, but I'd prefer like a giant Kroot Dragon or a Vespid Broodmother or something instead.

Not liking the aesthetics is perfectly reasonable as that is an opinion and a personal judgement call and not spouting off fanmade "facts" as though they're official. Every FW kit has its proponents and detractors... heck, I even heard there are some loonies that don't like the new stormhammer?!? I mean, that's almost criminal... everyone should like that sexy monoturretted gun hedgehog of a superheavy tank but in the spirit of Rule #1 we accept even those folks in this inclusive thread.

Also, the tau supremacy suit is not as bad as the centurion. That would be if when the tau titan is destroyed, you get a full squad of three stealth suits to deploy out of the chest within 2" for the crew. *shudder*

**Vector Strike**

more pics here:

http://imgur.com/a/gXO2q

**Lythrandire Biehrellian**

Those are pretty! Thanks for sharing

**chaos0xomega**

warboss wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?

I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.

Because certain Tau players have filled in the gaps with their own made up fluff and are offended that GW isn't following it. There are three different things that are being argued unfortunately simultaneously about this titan (purely visual aesthetics aside) as if they were one thing. There is a difference between "tau don't use titans", "tau can't use titans", and "tau won't use titans". The first up until this product was unveiled was absolutely true; tau simply didn't use titans (or big robots before the riptide) simply because they weren't mentioned and we didn't have any products to buy. There was of course no real mention of WHY and some players decided to make up their own. "Tau can't use titans" and earlier "big robots" ironically only BECAME true with the riptide's fluff simply so the riptide could be the first exception to that just created fluff. They made up the tech reasons why PREVIOUSLY the tau didn't use bigger robots only when they came out with bigger robots. Then we come to "tau won't use titans" which is complete fanspank. Just because I take a sedan to work doesn't mean that I won't ever take a pickup truck and yet somehow tau currently using superheavy fliers became that they have some moral or tactical abhorence against using titans. It really is stupid but the three DIFFERENT issues have become one in the eyes of some veteran players.

Err, Tau not using titans was an established element of the fluff, it was stated explicitly in the 3rd ed book, as well as in taros campaign.

**Kanluwen**

chaos0xomega wrote:

Err, Tau not using titans was an established element of the fluff, it was stated explicitly in the 3rd ed book, as well as in taros campaign.

The Taros Campaign was 978.M41 and it wasn't until 998.M41 that the colony was fully annexed.

There's a hefty chunk of time for that stance to have been revised...

**Bobthehero**

20 years? Its pretty short, considering that you have to change ideology, develop a frame, develop compatible weapons, build said frame and weapons, and then there's no guarantee that the protorype will work.

**davethepak**

As a VERY long time tau player (yes, even in fifth edition, when others abandoned the tau - I played them competitively) I love the idea of a big suit.

The tau are supposed to be dynamic - if the railgun tigershark is a response to the imperial titans (and eldar....) then to me this is another evolution of that.
(of course, the fact that the tigershark is also terrible in its effectivity for the points category, if it were real, I would fire the air caste...).

I just don't care for the aestheic.
Tau already have some of the best looking suits in the game - the FW XV9 Suits

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-BATTLESUITS-AND-DRONES/TAU-BATTLESUIT-COMMANDER-SHAS-O-RALAI-WITH-DRONES.html

They are just plain awesome. I would pay mountains of cash for a reventant (or warhound, or maybe even reaver size) version of an xv9.

This thing looks too bulky - yeah, sure, it looks like a giant crisis suit - something that many have already complained about for years (which the fw suits, and the riptide don't really match, at least in my opinion).

Will I get the suit? Don't know. Depends on the quality of the rules. I already have a tigershark and orca - thats my donation to the "cool models with terrible rules" for the tau collection.
Not sure if I want another.

**warboss**

chaos0xomega wrote:

Err, Tau not using titans was an established element of the fluff, it was stated explicitly in the 3rd ed book, as well as in taros campaign.

I'd appreciate the page numbers to see the actual text. And, yes, the tau "not" using titans certainly was true because the titan models didn't exist either as rules or as a physical product. The question is whether your fluff say they can't or choose not to. There is a difference between those three.

**chaos0xomega**

the fluff said they did not, I cant procide page numbers atm because I am not currently in immediate possession of either of those books, though I may be able to look them up in a short while.

**shade1313**

Kepora wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
aka_mythos wrote:
Formosa wrote:
Why are people complaining about the tau titan and saying it wouldn't exist?

I know tau fluff says they don't have them and don't use them, but tau are not the imperium, eldar etc. If they thought they needed a titan, they'd make one, slap some jump engines to it and off they go.
It's a similar knee jerk by some whenever the Imperium discovers a new STC template or pulls centurion armor out of thin air. It flys in the face of what people think makes sense in their rationalized bubble of an irrational fictional setting. I think it's pretty silly to think the army that draws inspiration from Japanese animation shouldn't have towering giant mecha.

You know, I think I'm going to type up a little essay regarding the value of internal consistency in a fictional setting and why people who get all passive-aggressive when folk discuss new additions to an IP in that context need to think again, that way when this disturbingly frequent fatuous criticism pops up I can just post that and save myself typing it out every time - the complaint barely ever changes, so there's no real need to tailor the response either

Be sure to keep us posted on that!

Bated breath. Really.

**MajorWesJanson**

davethepak wrote:

I just don't care for the aestheic.
Tau already have some of the best looking suits in the game - the FW XV9 Suits

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-BATTLESUITS-AND-DRONES/TAU-BATTLESUIT-COMMANDER-SHAS-O-RALAI-WITH-DRONES.html

They are just plain awesome. I would pay mountains of cash for a reventant (or warhound, or maybe even reaver size) version of an xv9.

This thing looks too bulky - yeah, sure, it looks like a giant crisis suit - something that many have already complained about for years (which the fw suits, and the riptide don't really match, at least in my opinion).

Will I get the suit? Don't know. Depends on the quality of the rules. I already have a tigershark and orca - thats my donation to the "cool models with terrible rules" for the tau collection.
Not sure if I want another.

Meanwhile I strongly dislike the XV9 suits. Too many random bulges and compound curves. I do love this heavy walker.

**warboss**

chaos0xomega wrote:
the fluff said they did not, I cant procide page numbers atm because I am not currently in immediate possession of either of those books, though I may be able to look them up in a short while.

Did not doesn't equal "can't" or "won't". I have the 3rd edition codex and read it multiple times and don't recall ever seeing that they can't or choose not to. It is IIRC simply stated that they use other things like mantas versus titans (see my driving example above). I could obviously have missed it but that is unlikely. What is more likely though is that you're conflating the three into one single statement. Nothing about the tau titan breaks the fluff as it currently is or to my recollection ever was officially in the codex books (although I don't have 2nd ed taros so can't say for sure there).

**chaos0xomega**

warboss wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
the fluff said they did not, I cant procide page numbers atm because I am not currently in immediate possession of either of those books, though I may be able to look them up in a short while.

Did not doesn't equal "can't" or "won't". I have the 3rd edition codex and read it multiple times and don't recall ever seeing that they can't or choose not to. It is IIRC simply stated that they use other things like mantas versus titans (see my driving example above). I could obviously have missed it but that is unlikely. What is more likely though is that you're conflating the three into one single statement. Nothing about the tau titan breaks the fluff as it currently is or to my recollection ever was officially in the codex books (although I don't have 2nd ed taros so can't say for sure there).

In regards to the Manta bit it actually says that Mantas are the Taus closest analogue to Imperial Titans and Ork Gargants. Regardless, the point is that it isn't an issue of the fanbase creating headcanon that GW chose not to follow, its an issue of GW establishing fluff which they then chose to change, and the Tau fanbase not being very responsive to that. Its GWs fluff to do with as they please, once upon a time Necrons were slaves to the C'Tan and not the other way around (as it is now) for example, but saying that its an element of fluff that didn't exist when it very much did is a bit of a stretch.

**insaniak**

chaos0xomega wrote:
the fluff said they did not, I cant procide page numbers atm because I am not currently in immediate possession of either of those books, though I may be able to look them up in a short while.

I don't recall anything specific in the fluff saying that, but I do recall Forgeworld saying so in response to questions about Tau titans early on. Their standard response was always that Tau didn't use titans, as flyers like the Manta fill that battlefield role instead.

That being said, it's an evolving game. Once upon a time, Marines used camo, Astro Imperialguardium used rhinos and Harlequins used land raiders...

Bobthehero wrote:
20 years? Its pretty short, considering that you have to change ideology, develop a frame, develop compatible weapons, build said frame and weapons, and then there's no guarantee that the protorype will work.

20 years is a long time in the middle of a war. How long did it take Japan to start converting battleships into aircraft carriers when they realised where the future of sea warfare was going to lay?

Given that they already have functional battlesuits, and presumably other similar mecha that they use for non-warlike activities, it's not at all unreasonable to think that they might have come up with something functional in 20 years.

**shade1313**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
davethepak wrote:

I just don't care for the aestheic.
Tau already have some of the best looking suits in the game - the FW XV9 Suits

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-BATTLESUITS-AND-DRONES/TAU-BATTLESUIT-COMMANDER-SHAS-O-RALAI-WITH-DRONES.html

They are just plain awesome. I would pay mountains of cash for a reventant (or warhound, or maybe even reaver size) version of an xv9.

This thing looks too bulky - yeah, sure, it looks like a giant crisis suit - something that many have already complained about for years (which the fw suits, and the riptide don't really match, at least in my opinion).

Will I get the suit? Don't know. Depends on the quality of the rules. I already have a tigershark and orca - thats my donation to the "cool models with terrible rules" for the tau collection.
Not sure if I want another.

Meanwhile I strongly dislike the XV9 suits. Too many random bulges and compound curves. I do love this heavy walker.

I like the XV9s as a supplemental special use unit, but I wouldn't want them to be the bulk of my suits.

Now, the XV89s, on the other hand...I would happily swap out all of my XV8s for XV89 models, they just look that much better.

**Kosake**

You know, there are also differencesd in the tactical requirements depending on where and what you fight. Tau may have an "evade instead of holding ground" mentality when it comes to some new colony-backwater-fought-over-planet, but imagine a full scale invasion of a sept world that for some reason can not be evacuated. Cities need to be defended, production facilities must be kept safe... Sure, light mobile groups can dynamically counter enemy attacks as long as it's small scale. What will two dozen firewarriors do against a Knight lance or a proper titan? Right, get torched, that's what. So you need a big, ugly, weapons-toting tower that can deal with stuff of that size. All the better if the tower has actually feet and can move around. Those rail-cannons or whatever it is look menacing enough even for titans, so it fits well with the tau glass cannon stereotype of using guns one category higher than the chassis they are mounted on (compared to imperial counterparts).

**Ashiraya**

Actually, if that tower does not have feet and cannot move around, you can fit much more guns and armor on it.

**ImAGeek**

Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, if that tower does not have feet and cannot move around, you can fit much more guns and armor on it.

And I'm sure they have those too, it doesn't have to be one or the other

**Vector Strike**

insaniak wrote:and Harlequins used land raiders...

**Slinky**

Here you go:

**endlesswaltz123**

I said it when the first images appeared and I'll repeat it again. The choice to give the Tau a 'titan' is probably as much a decision for gameplay practicality as it is to advance their tech/fluff and give them something new.

A Manta really isn't practical to move and manoeuvre around a game table, especially of the smaller size, the foot print of it is massive, you'd most likely need a specially adapted case just for it. It's just plain bulky and cumbersome. Amazing for large apocalypse level games, but just plain annoying and hardly worth the effort on smaller tables. On those smaller tables, small to mid range titans are becoming more and more common, whether you like it or not. Titan whilst tall have a much smaller footprint, even over super heavy tanks depending on size. It's perfect for the tau practicality and gameplay wise if you take size into account.

I don't know about any of you, but I'd be in a constant state of nerves bordering on a wreck if I had a manta and it was mounted on a flying base as well. One cat, small child running around or me pulling off a far too usual clumsy knock into the table away from disaster.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, if that tower does not have feet and cannot move around, you can fit much more guns and armor on it.

In which case you just avoid the firing range of that tower without breaking a sweat.

**Daston**

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I said it when the first images appeared and I'll repeat it again. The choice to give the Tau a 'titan' is probably as much a decision for gameplay practicality as it is to advance their tech/fluff and give them something new.

A Manta really isn't practical to move and manoeuvre around a game table, especially of the smaller size, the foot print of it is massive, you'd most likely need a specially adapted case just for it. It's just plain bulky and cumbersome. Amazing for large apocalypse level games, but just plain annoying and hardly worth the effort on smaller tables. On those smaller tables, small to mid range titans are becoming more and more common, whether you like it or not. Titan whilst tall have a much smaller footprint, even over super heavy tanks depending on size. It's perfect for the tau practicality and gameplay wise if you take size into account.

I don't know about any of you, but I'd be in a constant state of nerves bordering on a wreck if I had a manta and it was mounted on a flying base as well. One cat, small child running around or me pulling off a far too usual clumsy knock into the table away from disaster.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, if that tower does not have feet and cannot move around, you can fit much more guns and armor on it.

In which case you just avoid the firing range of that tower without breaking a sweat.

I agree completely, my Thunderhalk has seen battle once in 4 years. I sometimes wish I had got a Reaver titan as I am sure it would have seen many more games.