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I was wondering because technically it is not terminatour armour it is Runic terminatour armour so does it still follow all the rules for terminatour armour? I know this is definitely pushing the rules.

It's still a suit of Terminator Armor.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:It's still a suit of Terminator Armor.

SW codex clearly states terminatour armour NOT (Njals) runic terminatour armour it also fails to state that it follows the rules for normal terminatour armour in its entry(description) thus bypassing the normal terminatour armour restrictions.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:It's still a suit of Terminator Armor.

I agree with this one. Saying that it doesnt say it follows the rules for terminator armor literally splitting hairs. Yes, its called Runic terminator armor, but its still terminator armor

KingCracker wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:It's still a suit of Terminator Armor.

I agree with this one. Saying that it doesnt say it follows the rules for terminator armor literally splitting hairs. Yes, its called Runic terminator armor, but its still terminator armor

Are not half the loop holes in the BRB spliting hairs and this is technically not a suit of terminatour armour but it is runic suit of terminatour armour and they even explained all the rules for it in his profile.

Very few people (very possibly 0) actually play by the "loop holes" in the BRB. Njal wears a suit of Terminator armor that he's enhanced to have a 4+ save.

Yeah...I wouldn't let you do it.

Huh, it looks like that Njal can indeed ride in Rhinos, RaW.

Nice Find.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, it looks like that Njal can indeed ride in Rhinos, RaW.

Nice Find.

Yeah, when he's wearing his Runic Power Armor.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Very few people (very possibly 0) actually play by the "loop holes" in the BRB. Njal wears a suit of Terminator armor that he's enhanced to have a 4+ save.

Check out the defintion. TAH DAH

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Huh, it looks like that Njal can indeed ride in Rhinos, RaW.

Nice Find.

Yeah, when he's wearing his Runic Power Armor.

Sorry, but even in his Runic Terminator armour he can, as "Runic Terminator Armour" has no restriction, while Terminator Armour Does.

Or are you going to argue that a Heavy Flamer is actually the same as a Flamer and uses the Flamers Strength and AP?

No, as a Heavy Flamer has it's own defined S and AP. I'm not saying that Runic TA has a 5++. I'm saying that Runic TA is still TA.

Gwar! wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Huh, it looks like that Njal can indeed ride in Rhinos, RaW.

Nice Find.

Yeah, when he's wearing his Runic Power Armor.

Sorry, but even in his Runic Terminator armour he can, as "Runic Terminator Armour" has no restriction, while Terminator Armour Does.

Or are you going to argue that a Heavy Flamer is actually the same as a Flamer and uses the Flamers Strength and AP?

GWARED.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:No, as a Heavy Flamer has it's own defined S and AP. I'm not saying that Runic TA has a 5++. I'm saying that Runic TA is still TA.

And RTA has it's own Defined rules. The Rules for RTA do NOT have a restriction on embarking upon Rhinos and Razorbacks, unlike TA which does.

Would I play it this way? No. But if someone who was playing against me wanted to, I would let them, because they have every right to do so.

It doesn't say it ignores the restrictions that TA typically has - and RTA is still a suit of Terminator Armor.

Don't say that a Bolter doesn't say it ignores TA restrictions and therefore makes you relentless and too big to fit in Rhinos - it's a different situation and you know it.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:It doesn't say it ignores the restrictions that TA typically has - and RTA is still a suit of Terminator Armor.

Don't say that a Bolter doesn't say it ignores TA restrictions and therefore makes you relentless and too big to fit in Rhinos - it's a different situation and you know it.

It does not say it is a normal suit of terminator armour thus it does not have to follow the terminatour armour rules.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:It doesn't say it ignores the restrictions that TA typically has - and RTA is still a suit of Terminator Armor.

Don't say that a Bolter doesn't say it ignores TA restrictions and therefore makes you relentless and too big to fit in Rhinos - it's a different situation and you know it.

No, but a similar situation is that of a Heavy Bolter and a Storm Bolter.

Each have their own rules and stats. One is Heavy 3, one is Assault 2. TA has its own rules too. It grants a 2+/5++ save and restricts the wearer from embarking upon Rhinos and Razorbacks. RTA grants a 2+/4++ save, and does NOT have the same restriction as TA.

A name means nothing. A Heavy Bolter isn't the same as a Storm Bolter, and RTA is not the same as TA.

How is this anything like the difference between a heavy bolter and a storm bolter?

MasterSlowPoke wrote:How is this anything like the difference between a heavy bolter and a storm bolter?

Cause thier two different items with each having thier own different set of rules it just as so happens RTA does not follow the rules the TA does.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:How is this anything like the difference between a heavy bolter and a storm bolter?

How is it not?

A Heavy Bolter has its own rules, as does a Storm Bolter.
Similarly, Terminator Armour has its own rules, and Runic Terminator Armour has its own rules. RTA does NOT use the TA rules any more than a Storm Bolter uses the Heavy Bolter rules.

And yet in the army list entry, what he upgrades to is "runic Terminator armor". I wonder what 'runic' as an adjective means, since the item mentioned in his codex entry on page 53 is something called by the proper noun "Runic Terminator Armour"...

It doesn't matter how correct Gwar thinks that he can make an argument.

Will your pals play against this in a friendly game? No.
Will a tournament organizer agree with this interpretation and allow it? No.
Will a GT or Ard Boyz allow it? No.

Gwar is right, any player can do that.

If they try to, I will refuse to play them, encourage everyone around me not to play them, and spend the better part of the next 2 hours telling them how their mother made love to a horse, and how the resulting mutant offspring grew up to become a dick who plays warhammer.

ph34r wrote:It doesn't matter how correct Gwar thinks that he can make an argument.

Will your pals play against this in a friendly game? No.
Will a tournament organizer agree with this interpretation and allow it? No.
Will a GT or Ard Boyz allow it? No.

Too true.

Also, Solkan's got the right of it: if we start splitting hairs like this instead of looking out for the 'greater good' (harharharhar) of the game and its playability we could go on for ages putting things where they shouldn't go (giggity-giggity-goo, awlright) or upgrading weapons the 'wrong' way or a hundred other things.

Is it a suit of terminator armor in some way shape or form? Yes? Then conform to the rule sets of the past five plus years that tell you, quite definitely, to leave him out of rhinos and razorbacks.

If people need to split hairs about a game with plastics figures, they need to look hard in the mirror of how it's come to this.

Grey elder wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:It doesn't say it ignores the restrictions that TA typically has - and RTA is still a suit of Terminator Armor.

Don't say that a Bolter doesn't say it ignores TA restrictions and therefore makes you relentless and too big to fit in Rhinos - it's a different situation and you know it.

It does not say it is a normal suit of terminator armour thus it does not have to follow the terminatour armour rules.

Assuming you're going to actually try to play with this interpretation it also means Njal isn't relentless, can't Deep Strike and can perform a Sweeping Advance.

It is a suit of terminator armour that has runes written on it.

It is ensorcelled (love it! have a new word to play with) with runes. This gives protection from Psychic attacks. Iron Priests can create PA with runes that do likewise.

it is "technically" like Terminator armour, because it is Terminator armour. It is like saying the t-shirt I'm wearing is not a t-shirt because it has writing printed on it.

If this is not so then I will name all my Termie armour Eric.
As it has a name that is not mentioned in the rules my Termies can take a taxi to the battle!

yakface wrote:

Grey elder wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:It doesn't say it ignores the restrictions that TA typically has - and RTA is still a suit of Terminator Armor.

Don't say that a Bolter doesn't say it ignores TA restrictions and therefore makes you relentless and too big to fit in Rhinos - it's a different situation and you know it.

It does not say it is a normal suit of terminator armour thus it does not have to follow the terminatour armour rules.

Assuming you're going to actually try to play with this interpretation it also means Njal isn't relentless, can't Deep Strike and can perform a Sweeping Advance.

SW cant deep strike with teleporters any ways so that mute, all his physic attacks are assualt so he dosnt need relentless and sweeping advance would be cool. Plus the reason I made this thread is to 1. see if it was possible 2. annoy the crap out of my friends 3. Njal in RTA +3 wolf guard and a rhino ftw. Plus if people dont want to play with me fine but aslong as they realise i was right. Also Gwar is a pal and he would play me. (Takes 2 to tango but one to fly)


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Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:It is a suit of terminator armour that has runes written on it.

It is ensorcelled (love it! have a new word to play with) with runes. This gives protection from Psychic attacks. Iron Priests can create PA with runes that do likewise.

it is "technically" like Terminator armour, because it is Terminator armour. It is like saying the t-shirt I'm wearing is not a t-shirt because it has writing printed on it.

If this is not so then I will name all my Termie armour Eric.
As it has a name that is not mentioned in the rules my Termies can take a taxi to the battle!

I would love to play a game were all your units have Eric Terminatour armour aslong as they can take Eric Terminatour armour legally but if they cant then you are SOL(sorry out of luck).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kurgash wrote:If people need to split hairs about a game with plastics figures, they need to look hard in the mirror of how it's come to this.

Iam actually trying to become an IRL lawyer so this type of arguement is fun and if iam rigth not only do I get to be right my cleint gets to SUIT UP-Barney Stinson- and takes a rhino limo to the battle. So when I do go to look into the mirror I see me with a lot of split hairs (not joking).

This is like the argument that Reclusiarchs don't get the benefits of Chaplain special rules, even though Reclusiarchs are described as a type of Chaplain in the rulebook. A Reclusiarch is a subset of Chaplain, not something different.

The rules for Rhinos say "models wearing Terminator Armour". It doesn't say "models wearing generic Terminator Armour". Runic Terminator Armour is a clear subset of Terminator Armour, not something unique and different.

Flamers and Heavy Flamers (and many other things) are subsets of Flame Weapons. Even though "Flame Weapons" are not clearly defined in the rulebook, it is clear that Flamers, Heavy Flamers, etc.. are both similar, and belong to the same superset, but are each in separate subsets. Many special rules apply to "Flame Weapons" or a similar catch-all phrase (Eldar Avatar, Vulkan He'stan) but not to "Flamers", IIRC.


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Hmmm... I'll call myself on that last one before anyone else does.

Turns out Flamers and Heavy Flamers can't hurt the Avatar, but Hand Flamers can. (Not normally, as I think his T is too high, but if you could lower his T, you could take him out with a Hand Flamer).

Also, Vulkan affect "Flamers and Heavy Flamers".

Fifty wrote:This is like the argument that Reclusiarchs don't get the benefits of Chaplain special rules, even though Reclusiarchs are described as a type of Chaplain in the rulebook. A Reclusiarch is a subset of Chaplain, not something different.

The rules for Rhinos say "models wearing Terminator Armour". It doesn't say "models wearing generic Terminator Armour". Runic Terminator Armour is a clear subset of Terminator Armour, not something unique and different.

Flamers and Heavy Flamers (and many other things) are subsets of Flame Weapons. Even though "Flame Weapons" are not clearly defined in the rulebook, it is clear that Flamers, Heavy Flamers, etc.. are both similar, and belong to the same superset, but are each in separate subsets. Many special rules apply to "Flame Weapons" or a similar catch-all phrase (Eldar Avatar, Vulkan He'stan) but not to "Flamers", IIRC.

Until Njal thier was only ever one set of terminatour armour if it was a named one like Calgars for example it was counted as TERMINATOUR ARMOUR but here is the kicker the rhino does not state that a model wearing Runic terminatour armour cannot embark in the transport. And thier is no line that refers this armour to normal or generic terminatour armour rules.

This is like Flamestorm''s in all sense thier a flamer but are not treated as a flamer so Vulkan ability does not affect them because it is not a flamer or heavey flamer.