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It isn't at all lke it in all senses.

The simple fact that Flamers and Heavy Flamers are referred to separately, not as "Flamers of all types" means that other flamers from any possible theoretical Flamer Superset are not included.

Terminator armour is the Superset, and Runic Terminator Armour is a subset of it. It is like, as someone suggested previously, that T-Shirts become something different when you write on them.

You just want it to be different to annoy your friends. Funny how your interpretation matches what you want...

Another point to raise - Runic Terminator Armour does not have any special rules of its own. "He" has a 2+ save and a 4+ save. It does not say the Runic Terminator Armour confers this save. Njal himself has this save. Therefore, even if he removed this armour, he still has it... So Runic Terminator armour has no special rules, is thus Terminator armour, and you cannot ride in a Rhino.

Fifty wrote:It isn't at all lke it in all senses.

The simple fact that Flamers and Heavy Flamers are referred to separately, not as "Flamers of all types" means that other flamers from any possible theoretical Flamer Superset are not included.

Terminator armour is the Superset, and Runic Terminator Armour is a subset of it. It is like, as someone suggested previously, that T-Shirts become something different when you write on them.

You just want it to be different to annoy your friends. Funny how your interpretation matches what you want...

Another point to raise - Runic Terminator Armour does not have any special rules of its own. "He" has a 2+ save and a 4+ save. It does not say the Runic Terminator Armour confers this save. Njal himself has this save. Therefore, even if he removed this armour, he still has it... So Runic Terminator armour has no special rules, is thus Terminator armour, and you cannot ride in a Rhino.

RTA is a complete set of its own and is not included in the terminatour armour catergory at all it has it own seperate set of rules and does not say refer to or counts as TA therefore it does not have to use the profile for a model weargin TA .

While I think it'd be cool to play it this way, I won't. Like Gwar already stated - if your opponent chooses to play this way its up to you to accept it or not. Will it fly in a tournament? Don't know, but if someone in my group stepped up with this gem I couldn't tell them they were really wrong. Then again, my gaming group has house rules for such things.

Bavius wrote:While I think it'd be cool to play it this way, I won't. Like Gwar already stated - if your opponent chooses to play this way its up to you to accept it or not. Will it fly in a tournament? Don't know, but if someone in my group stepped up with this gem I couldn't tell them they were really wrong. Then again, my gaming group has house rules for such things.

Gwar said it was in every right of the SW players ability to play that way. Just to correct you.

Grey elder wrote:
Gwar said it was in every right of the SW players ability to play that way. Just to correct you.

And Gwar is right, RAW you can do it.

And I have the right to never play you again.


Ethics, my friend. Ethics.

Vanguard27 wrote:

Grey elder wrote:
Gwar said it was in every right of the SW players ability to play that way. Just to correct you.

And Gwar is right, RAW you can do it.

And I have the right to never play you again.


Ethics, my friend. Ethics.

TO HELL WITH ETHICS!

Grey elder wrote:
TO HELL WITH ETHICS!

If you actually mean this. Players like you are the reason for soft scores.

Either way, RAW it works. I wouldn't do it. and like the other thread, I doubt TO's would let you also.

Grey elder wrote:

Vanguard27 wrote:

Grey elder wrote:
Gwar said it was in every right of the SW players ability to play that way. Just to correct you.

And Gwar is right, RAW you can do it.

And I have the right to never play you again.


Ethics, my friend. Ethics.

TO HELL WITH ETHICS!

What law school do you want to go to again?

Are the guys arguing for this actually serious or is this just some bad level of sarcasm? This has got to be the most irrelevantly stupid debate I've heard in... heck... at least 3 hours.

He is wearing terminator armor, it's just cooler terminator armor, this does not make him magically smaller so he can fit in a rhino hatch. RAI apply here. Ask a GW game design guy and I'm pretty sure you'll get the same answer. Or be a nitpicky jerk is the other option. I think this is too ridiculous a question to even have made it onto an official FAQ because nobody even considered it before now because it's so obvious. If y'all haven't noticed yet, the GW writers are not legal experts and doon't necessarily word everything with that kind of precision. A little bit of leeway in how things are worded is necessary to enjoy the game and not just come off as being TFG.

yakface wrote:

Grey elder wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:It doesn't say it ignores the restrictions that TA typically has - and RTA is still a suit of Terminator Armor.

Don't say that a Bolter doesn't say it ignores TA restrictions and therefore makes you relentless and too big to fit in Rhinos - it's a different situation and you know it.

It does not say it is a normal suit of terminator armour thus it does not have to follow the terminatour armour rules.

Assuming you're going to actually try to play with this interpretation it also means Njal isn't relentless, can't Deep Strike and can perform a Sweeping Advance.

You are absolutely right. He can indeed Sweeping Advance and is not Relentless, though the Deep Striking thing is a non issue as that is not a part of the SW Terminator Armour Rules anyway.

The way I see it, this is just another blunder on GWs part. A Silly one that not even I would use, but it's still one nonetheless.

Guitardian wrote:Are the guys arguing for this actually serious or is this just some bad level of sarcasm? This has got to be the most irrelevantly stupid debate I've heard in... heck... at least 3 hours.

He is wearing terminator armor, it's just cooler terminator armor, this does not make him magically smaller so he can fit in a rhino hatch. RAI apply here. Ask a GW game design guy and I'm pretty sure you'll get the same answer. Or be a nitpicky jerk is the other option. I think this is too ridiculous a question to even have made it onto an official FAQ because nobody even considered it before now because it's so obvious. If y'all haven't noticed yet, the GW writers are not legal experts and doon't necessarily word everything with that kind of precision. A little bit of leeway in how things are worded is necessary to enjoy the game and not just come off as being TFG.

bang on the money!
The reason why Termies's don't get a taxi ride is because Termies are too darned big for Rhinos
The Njal model is even bulkier than normal Termies because of his wolfskin over the top of the armour.
Then there has to be room for the raven

would love to play a game were all your units have Eric Terminatour armour aslong as they can take Eric Terminatour armour legally but if they cant then you are SOL(sorry out of luck).

Why?
where is it written that I can't call my armour Eric and pop my Terminators in a taxi?
GW have not specifically written it in the rulebook that I may not do so.
therefore by your own logic I can do this.

Grey elder wrote: Plus if people dont want to play with me fine but aslong as they realise i was right.

I hope you realise that this is ever so wrong. Mangling the game with RAW wouldn't make you 'right', it would make you something else entirely. I would be amused at first if someone tried to play this against me. If they were serious, however, I would be very unimpressed.

Soup and a roll wrote:

Grey elder wrote: Plus if people dont want to play with me fine but aslong as they realise i was right.

I hope you realise that this is ever so wrong. Mangling the game with RAW wouldn't make you 'right', it would make you something else entirely. I would be amused at first if someone tried to play this against me. If they were serious, however, I would be very unimpressed.

The thing is, he is serious. I mean, he even sigged Gwar! calling him right. He may play it off as "I just wanted to annoy my friends." But then he gave you the real answer - what he planned to do with it. I agree with whomever said that it's guys like him that created soft scores. QFT there.

Much as I don't want another reason to cringe when I think of the SW codex, this sounds right. Hot-shot lasguns after all can't be FRFSRFed and (IIRC) Sternguard can't use special ammo in storm bolters or bolt pistols.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So wait... Does this mean weapons who read "counts as a mastercrafted power weapon" or anything similar technically aren't power weapons, because they say mastercrafted in front of them?

Hurray another reason to facepalm people. These arguments are so insanely stupid I cant even believe them when I see them. Honestly, read what its called, Runic TERMINATOR ARMOR! I dont care what the hell the description says about it (unless it specifically states that the wearer of said armor CAN ride in rhinos) its still terminator armor. Im sure the guys that wrote that rule would laugh their asses off at seeing this turn into a serious debate.
"I figured since it has TERMINATOR ARMOR in the bloody name, they would of got it but guess not"

KingCracker wrote:Hurray another reason to facepalm people. These arguments are so insanely stupid I cant even believe them when I see them. Honestly, read what its called, Runic TERMINATOR ARMOR! I dont care what the hell the description says about it (unless it specifically states that the wearer of said armor CAN ride in rhinos) its still terminator armor. Im sure the guys that wrote that rule would laugh their asses off at seeing this turn into a serious debate.
"I figured since it has TERMINATOR ARMOR in the bloody name, they would of got it but guess not"

Oh gee, I guess that means my Bolter is Assault 2 then, like a Storm Bolter, because it has Bolter in the name, and my Power Armour is a 2+/5++ save, because it has Armour in the name, like Terminator Armour does!

Awesome!

And this is why everyone, especially GW, advocates rules interpretations like this!

Oh wait, I was thinking of the opposite thing. Sorry, only you two people on the internet would actually try to use these rules. In fact, I don't think that you would actually try to use them in a game, because you would get laughed out of the store if you did.

Why this occurs is a mystery that you might find hard to solve.

Fifty wrote:Terminatour Armour

Anyone else noticing the constant spelling mistake or is this just a different way of saying it that this ignorant American (I'm pointing at myself here) hasn't heard before?

I can see how "Runic" terminator armor having it's own subset of rules to be followed. Might be wise to discuss the issue with your opponent first to avoid there being "friction" as the game progresses. That way your opponent can decide whether or not to play the game in the first place. Personally, I wouldn't be a fan of letting you do it but RAW is with you.

Modquisition on:
Gentlemen, lets remember Dakka Rule #1 politeness. You can argue the merits, you can disgaree with each other, but courtesy is necessary on this thread.

Frazzled opinon: it says its terminator armor. The rule applies. Runic is just a subtype or terminator armor.

Actually it's right there in the wargear discription. "Njal alone has the skill to ensorcel suits of terminator armour...". So clearly his suit of Runic Terminator Armour is the same as any other modified suit of Terminator Armour. If this was not the case then any modification to any suit of armour would constitute the need to have new rules for adjudication.

Doesn't the rulebook also say the most important rule is to have a fun, agreeable game? You broke it. Grats on that.

ph34r wrote:And this is why everyone, especially GW, advocates rules interpretations like this!

Oh wait, I was thinking of the opposite thing. Sorry, only you two people on the internet would actually try to use these rules. In fact, I don't think that you would actually try to use them in a game, because you would get laughed out of the store if you did.

Why this occurs is a mystery that you might find hard to solve.

Well Gwar did say earlier in the thread that even he wouldn't use the rule that way, he was just saying by RAW it's possible.

But I'm definatly in the "It's TDA man, it's blindingly, massively obvious" camp.

My interpretation.

RAI: It's clearly TDA. It should function like TDA.

RAW: It's technically different from TDA, as it never states that it uses the rules for terminator armor.

I'd never play like that, and it's (almost positively) just an oversight due to poor editing/rules writing. Chalk it up to poor GW rules standards, laugh it off, and don't play that way.

@Grey elder: Congratulations! You're right! Good luck finding a game playing like this. Are you done now?

Nine_breaker wrote:

Fifty wrote:Terminatour Armour

Anyone else noticing the constant spelling mistake or is this just a different way of saying it that this ignorant American (I'm pointing at myself here) hasn't heard before?

How have you managed to quote me as spelling it that way when I haven't done so?

daedalus wrote:Much as I don't want another reason to cringe when I think of the SW codex, this sounds right. Hot-shot lasguns after all can't be FRFSRFed and (IIRC) Sternguard can't use special ammo in storm bolters or bolt pistols.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So wait... Does this mean weapons who read "counts as a mastercrafted power weapon" or anything similar technically aren't power weapons, because they say mastercrafted in front of them?

Daedalus has the right of it I think. I wouldn't play it as "special terminator armor with a different save that allows one to fit into a rhino and sweeping advance, but doesn't make you relentless or allow deep striking" but pretty much that is what the rule says. Maybe it is ensorcelled to shrink a bit when needed, I don't know. However, it does have a specific, distinct rules listing and stats than terminator armor, so just as Hotshot Lasguns can't use FRFSRF, so does RTA use its own rules.

Don't blame the player for finding the rule, blame GW for not writing it well.

Gwar! wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Hurray another reason to facepalm people. These arguments are so insanely stupid I cant even believe them when I see them. Honestly, read what its called, Runic TERMINATOR ARMOR! I dont care what the hell the description says about it (unless it specifically states that the wearer of said armor CAN ride in rhinos) its still terminator armor. Im sure the guys that wrote that rule would laugh their asses off at seeing this turn into a serious debate.
"I figured since it has TERMINATOR ARMOR in the bloody name, they would of got it but guess not"

Oh gee, I guess that means my Bolter is Assault 2 then, like a Storm Bolter, because it has Bolter in the name, and my Power Armour is a 2+/5++ save, because it has Armour in the name, like Terminator Armour does!

Awesome!

That's an absolutely worthless argument - a Bolter is defined as Rapid Fire and not Assault 2; while RTA is not defined as ignoring the normal restrictions of terminator armor.

whalemusic360 wrote:Doesn't the rulebook also say the most important rule is to have a fun, agreeable game? You broke it. Grats on that.

What's that? My Spess Mahrines aren't Toughness 10 with a 0+ Rerollable save?

Oh, looks like you just broke the most important rule now, as I can't have fun without T10 0+ marones!

Also, Rule #7


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:That's an absolutely worthless argument - a Bolter is defined as Rapid Fire and not Assault 2; while RTA is not defined as ignoring the normal restrictions of terminator armor.

And a Close Combat Weapon is NOT defined as Rending either. It also does NOT say that hitting your models with a hammer when they take a wound is restricted either.

By your logic, my CCW are now all Rending and I get to go Gallagher on your minis!

In short, Nothing Ruleswise suggests RTA follows the TA rules.

The facts that it is named Terminator Armor, looks like Terminator Armor, and the line before it says it is an enscorcelled suit of Terminator is nothing?

Fifty wrote:

Nine_breaker wrote:

Fifty wrote:Terminatour Armour

Anyone else noticing the constant spelling mistake or is this just a different way of saying it that this ignorant American (I'm pointing at myself here) hasn't heard before?

How have you managed to quote me as spelling it that way when I haven't done so?

I have no idea....

My apologies

This is getting beyond belief.

The only difference with the runic armour (with a u) is that it gives saves against psychic attacks.

It doesn't shrink in the wash and is otherwise the same as Terminator (without a u) armour.

Now there is no rule written that I can't call my Rhinos Egbert.
Since Egbert Rhinos are not mentioned anywhere in the texts, is does not say that aren't invisible, and therefore have an automatic cover save.

Eric Terminators (no u) in Egbert Rhinos so totally rock dude!