Last Stand

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**Corennus**

I wish there were more scenarios available for heroic last stands.

Unless i'm totally wrong.

I'd love to have a scenario where only about 1000 points of space marines have to hold out over 5 turns against more than double the points of an enemy force.

The "win" for the space marines would be to hold out till the end of the game (even if only one model remains).
The win for the opponent would be to wipe the marines from the board before the game ends.

Is there a scenario already written for this?

**Ribon Fox**

Not to my knowlage but you can always write it up, play test it and see how it works. I'd be interested in seeing how you would get on

**Corennus**

I think the space marines would have to gain fearless and relentless...

**Gitzbitah**

Try running pure Grey Knights, with many Power Armored Grey Knights. You ought to have the same sort of game.

**Mr. Burning**

Me and my regular gaming buddies play this exact type of mission with points values doubled for the opposing force.

500-1000pts
1000pts - 2000pts
etc.

Units falling back are allowed to regroup.

We have found SM are usually quite strong in this type of game without the need for any additional rules such as fearless or relentless etc.

1000pts of desperate vanilla counter attacking marines has proved a difficult proposition to kill outright over 4 or 5 turns.

YMMV

**Praxiss**

Wasn't there a scenario like this in WD a couple of months ago? I think it was to showcase that DA fortress kit.

**Valkyrie**

I would go for the following:

-Defenders set up in circular formation behind barricades.
-Attackers arrive from any table edge.
-Defenders get +1 to any cover saves and are Fearless.
-Attacking force should be about 1.5 times the points of the defenders.

Valk

**Shatter.proof**

I also like the rules of attacker/defender where defenders set up first yet attackers go first (I know it can suck in a lot of situations) but I do like the idea of Survive X turns and can be used in a lot of different fluff or campaign ways. Ie have to stop the nid assault for a few hours to let the planet evacuate or what not

**JSK-Fox**

How is this:
Defend this point from endless enemy waves for X turns, when Y happens, and Z is victorious, unless Q kills all of Z.

Special rules:
The enemy must have at least 2x the amount of defenders in terms of points.
Any enemy units that die are respawned at the edge of the board.

For Example:
Defend the Spaceport to evacuate the civilians for 9 turns, when the Thunderhawks arrive and rescue us. In the meantime, we must protect it from the vile orks, should they reach the spaceport, all hope is lost.

**Garvil_Loken**

Me and my friends played somewhat the same mission on a homemade fortress ( pics can be found in my gallery). One of the best games was my DA vs. Imperial Guard. my heavy weapons teams posted up and started raining down lethal plasma and HB fire on my friend's tanks. Since DA are already fearless it didn't really matter. One thing we found out was that the defender can bring in his tanks on his second turn without rolling them in but he can't move them just put them on the board (reason for delay is the first reaction forces getting a sit rep on whats going on and planning on what they will do). The points were Attacking:4000 vs Defending:2000. the objective was that the defender had the fortress (~75% of defending forces are deployed) then the rest of the deployed forces were placed between 24in and 36in from defending side. The forward defending line can only be scouts or lightly equipped forces (no heavy weapons like rocket launchers, plasma cannons, etc...). The attacking forces were deployed normally. Victory conditions where that if the attackers or defenders are completely destroyed, the defenders halted the attackers advance ( plug a bottleneck with a tank), or the attackers captured the main objective in the main fortress (destroying void shield control panel in the fortress to allow orbital bombardment).

**Nightwatch**

Valkyrie wrote:I would go for the following:

-Defenders set up in circular formation behind barricades.
-Attackers arrive from any table edge.
-Defenders get +1 to any cover saves and are Fearless.
-Attacking force should be about 1.5 times the points of the defenders.

Valk

Attackers bring flamers.

**Che-Vito**

Nightwatch wrote:
Valkyrie wrote:I would go for the following:

-Defenders set up in circular formation behind barricades.
-Attackers arrive from any table edge.
-Defenders get +1 to any cover saves and are Fearless.
-Attacking force should be about 1.5 times the points of the defenders.

Valk

Attackers bring flamers.

Or DH Orbital Bombardment.

**JSK-Fox**

Or Deathstrike Missile.

**Che-Vito**

JSK-Fox wrote:Or Deathstrike Missile.

Which can be killed, along with Flamer-carrying units.
DH OB cannot

**JSK-Fox**

If they were to defend one side of the board, surely the only way to beat them is some sort of Tactical Geniu...

**crazypsyko666**

I actually kind of like this idea, the ones taking the last stand start at the center of the board, lots of cover, lots of distance, sounds like fun! Here's a mock up of how I'd do it:

The setup:
- 8" in the center (circular) for defenders
- Attackers set up 16" away from defender position

Attackers:
- Gets +.5% the unit points of the defending player
- 1/3rd of their units held in reserve

Defenders:
- +1 to cover saves
- Fearless

What do you people think about changes to the FOC? +FA, -HS for attackers, opposite for defenders? I'm thinking similar to the Planetstrike ratio, but smaller.

This should really be a 1000 ponit defender, 1500 point attacker game, it seems.

Another idea: whenever an attacking unit is wiped out, roll a D6; on a 5+, the unit is returned to its full original strength and put in reserves.

What do you think?

**Klawz**

JSK-Fox wrote:If they were to defend one side of the board, surely the only way to beat them is some sort of Tactical Geniu...

(taking the bait...)
CREEED!!!

**4M2A**

We have been planning a game like this at the club I go to.

One army to be the attackers (usually a horde army) they get double the points of the defenders. Every time an attacking unit is destroy it is replaced on the attackers board edge. The defender has to last as long as possible.

**ChocolateGork**

There is a small fantasy variant of this with 4 dwarf veterans and a dwarf lord holding out against goblins and however many turns they survive for is how much they win by (minor, major).

Small amount of starting goblins but at the end of each turn a random unit is bought in (decided by a dice roll)

**JSK-Fox**

Here's something even cooler than some other stuff (IMO). It's based on L4D2/1.

Each Player on one team of 4 selects any non-named HQ unit from their codex, and that unit is not only theirs, but also has plus 1 wound. There is up to 8 players, btw. The other team has to set up a long, relatively linear board, that has only one route through it. The board should be fairly large, and have lots of enterable buildings. The team that does not choose an HQ unit gets to set up ALL terrain, but they can't block the path. They also set up the following things:

Health Kits, up to 8 per map.
Goes into an inventory, and when used, regains all wounds.

Pills, unlimited.
Goes into an inventory, and when used, gives Feel No Pain for 2 turns.

Defibilators, only 2 max per map.
Goes into an inventory, and when used on a dead teammate, revives them with 2 wounds left.
Can't have both this and a health pack.

Adrenaline, unlimited.
Goes into inventory, and when used, lets the user move up to 9" in the movement phase, and if they run, you roll a d6 and add 3" to it.
Can't have both this and pills.

Synapse Bomb, unlimited.
Goes into inventory, and can be thrown with the following profile:

Range: 12" S5 AP2 Type: Blast, One Time Use, Delay (causes the explosive to stay where it is for one turn prior to explosion), Synapse Attraction (causes all gaunts and rippers to run towards the bomb at full speed until detonation).

Fire Bomb, unlimited.
Goes into inventory, and can be thrown with the following profile:

Range: 12" S6 AP- Type Large Blast, One Time Use, Afterburn (keep the template in place for 2 more turns, and anything inside the template each turn on it's on the board takes another hit.
Can't have Synapse Bomb and this at the same time.

I'll think of more later...

**ComputerGeek01**

@JSK-Fox: There are a few of these online, I usually enjoy reading them. You should start a new thread about this. These games usually require an impartial player to be a director AKA GM.

@OP: There used to be a scenario called Meat Grinder that did exactly this. Only it was either Heavy Support or all Vehicles could not be regenerated. Regenerating units for the attackers board edge worked exactly the same as bringing in reserves and the attacker could NOT deep strike. This was usually the epic last stand at the end of a campaign or the heroic intro. It worked out great as long as the attacker was the IG, Orks, Nids or some Eldar lists.

**TheBlackVanguard**

My proposal is this.

What happens when daemons show up? Because we don't deploy.

**crazypsyko666**

TheBlackVanguard wrote:My proposal is this.

What happens when daemons show up? Because we don't deploy.

I guess all deployments would function unless stated otherwise, like with daemons.

**Garvil_Loken**

Question:

TheBlackVanguard
My proposal is this.

What happens when daemons show up? Because we don't deploy.

In my scenarios i am referencing this earlier post

crazypsyko666

I actually kind of like this idea, the ones taking the last stand start at the center of the board, lots of cover, lots of distance, sounds like fun! Here's a mock up of how I'd do it:

The setup:
- 8" in the center (circular) for defenders
- Attackers set up 16" away from defender position

Attackers:
- Gets +.5% the unit points of the defending player
- 1/3rd of their units held in reserve

Defenders:
- +1 to cover saves
- Fearless

What do you people think about changes to the FOC? +FA, -HS for attackers, opposite for defenders? I'm thinking similar to the Planetstrike ratio, but smaller.

This should really be a 1000 ponit defender, 1500 point attacker game, it seems.

Another idea: whenever an attacking unit is wiped out, roll a D6; on a 5+, the unit is returned to its full original strength and put in reserves.

Answers:
First Scenario:
They deploy within those normal boundaries because what else would space marines defend to the last stand? Can anyone say holy temple? Those blessed relics and temple have an area effect that nullifies any warp summoning because of the holy ground next to the temple. but that would require a temple as the defending area.

Second Scenario:
A librarian is projecting a force barrier that cancels out warp summoning to the normal boundaries but still allows demons to walk through just not enter from the warp. But by projecting this barrier the librarian is defenseless and can't attack so protect him at all cost or the barrier will fall and allow warp summoning. this still would require a Librarian.

Third Scenario:

**sebster**

The problem with giving the attacker more points is that 40K operates on a pretty direct quantity basis, more guys is more guns is more killing, and given the open boards and long ranges of weapons you can generally fire every gun at the enemy, no matter how big your force. The problem comes from the heroic last stand not being very heroic, as the defenders get outshot and take only a portion of the enemy down with them.

I've had a lot of fun playing these types of scenarios with equal points on each side, but giving the defender decent terrain advantages, with the attacker being able to bring in destroyed units as new units at the start of each of their turns. You play until the defender is wiped, with no 'survive until x' rule. It's more fun if there's no escape, just an exercise in taking as many of them with you as possible. More grimdark that way.

Minor variations allow the attacker to 'pick up' attacking units as they're too crippled to be useful, not having to wait until they're dead. This stops the lame strategy of leaving crippled units alive.

The other variation gives the attacker less control over the timing of reinforcements, instead of coming straight back next turn you have to roll a 4+ to get a unit back again.

**Corennus**

To Sebster:

The only way it would work, especially against heavy guns, is to give the defenders very heavy cover like a fortified bunker, or Fortress of Redemption (yes I know it's planetstrike).
And I think the attacker wouldn't have control over the reinforcements. there'd be set rules over how many units arrive each turn.

For example:
Turn 1: no reinforcements.
Turn 2: up to 300 points
Turn 3: Up to 400 points
Turn 4: Up to 500 points
Turn 5: Up to 1000 points
Turn 6: UNLIMITED

**The Emperor of Mankind**

Valkyrie wrote:I would go for the following:

-Defenders set up in circular formation behind barricades.
-Attackers arrive from any table edge.
-Defenders get +1 to any cover saves and are Fearless.
-Attacking force should be about 1.5 times the points of the defenders.

Valk

Or instead of being fearless they go to ground when failing tests etc.

**sebster**

Corennus wrote:To Sebster:

The only way it would work, especially against heavy guns, is to give the defenders very heavy cover like a fortified bunker, or Fortress of Redemption (yes I know it's planetstrike).
And I think the attacker wouldn't have control over the reinforcements. there'd be set rules over how many units arrive each turn.

For example:
Turn 1: no reinforcements.
Turn 2: up to 300 points
Turn 3: Up to 400 points
Turn 4: Up to 500 points
Turn 5: Up to 1000 points
Turn 6: UNLIMITED

That's a cool idea. It'd be cool if the attacker only deployed light troops at first, probably well under the defender's point total, and then started to see the big stuff turn up as the game went on. The light stuff would be endlessly respawning, of course.

**Corennus**

If they survive to Turn 6 I think the defenders have the option of blowing themselves up with a Str 10 Rending 60" explosion......

**gearheadwhat**

Here's an idea I've come up with:

Defenders start in the center, deploy up to 18 inches in any direction, so they have their bubble.

Attackers may set up anywhere on the board at least a further 12 inches away from this bubble.

Defenders get min 2 HQ choices, min 2 troop choices, minimum one elite, but up to 4 or 5, but only one fast attack and one heavy support max.

Attackers, get roughly standard deployment setup, minus one heavy support, plus one to fast attack.

Rules are as follows, variable end turn, starting at turn 5, on a 5+, then counts down.

If a unit (Any unit) of the defenders falls back, once it reaches the center 6 inches, auto passes it's regroup on it's next chance to regroup, regardless of normal restrictions. Also, any unit within the center 6 inches becomes fearless (No where to run left)

To counter this, any attacker who's unit falls back/half strength/vehicle rendered immobile or no weapons, can instead be counted as destroyed at the attackers discretion, and may 'respawn' by coming in as reserves automatically on the attackers next movement phase. It may either set up as per reserve rules, or may set up anywhere on the board out of LOS from the defenders.

Defenders win if they survive. Attackers win if defenders don't

That way both players can actually use the same amount of points.