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I'm not sure if this is where this belongs.. but I had to ask..

11 Dreadnaughts. In a standard Force Organization Chart.. Really?

Troop Choice 1. 30 Death Company.
Troop Choice 2-6. 5 Death Company Dreads. One for every 5 DC.
Elites 1-3. Furioso Dreads.
Heavy 1-3. Dreads.

Add an HQ and you could probably field it at under 2500.

Yes really

I'm not sure that it would be effective.. but the look on your opponent's face would be priceless I think..

Your math is wrong, only 25 DC for those Dreads. But yes, it's pretty scary. There is a horror story in one of these forums of a guy running this list. He tabled 9 out of 10 armies, mostly out of shock. People are avoiding him now (horror story part).

For the HQ isn't a lib dread HQ? I don't have a 'dex handy.

Good lord...I would cry if I saw this. Thank god (most) of it is pure footslog.

You can do this

Librarian (shield, unleash wrath)
3 Librarian furiosos in drop pods with blood lance + another power ( I recommend shield on one)

25 death company
5 DCs with blood talons ( or a mix) in drop pods
3 dreadnoughts with TL lascannon/ML with 1 in drop pod

That makes 9 pods so you can drop 5 dreads first turn (generally all 3 blood lances + 2 DCs and dont have the heavy support dread in a pod)

Basically kill his vehicles then pray that shield of sanguinius holds!.. Eventually your 25 DC + librarian will get there

Is 11 dreadnaughts the ultimate list of doom?

Speed: 6"+1D6" if the dread runs. 3 of the dreads can use a psychic power to fly if it's not stopped by a psychic hood, but all that will do is split the dreadnought army into a first wave of 3 dreads and a second wave of 8 dreads. The obvious result is the first wave of 3 librarian dreads (at 175 points each) will all get melta popped before the 2nd wave arrives.

Firepower: 1 heavy weapon per dread that is not armed with twin blood talons and that does not choose to run.

Scoring units: No scoring units.

As a list 11 dreads would be both slow and lacking in long ranged firepower. It can never win an objective based game by any means other than to table the other player's army, and that's just not going to happen against any army that can both outmaneuver and outgun an all dread list.

Just about every mechanized list can out run and out gun an all dread list.

A list with 6 dreads is far better balanced with a greater chance of winning a tournament.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just because an all dread list can be made, doesn't mean it should be made, or that it will work.

Adding a Land Raider to every squad as a dedicated transport and deep striking with every land raider is another possible list in the BA codex. Just because an army can deep strike every unit inside land raiders can be made doesn't mean it should be made, or that it will work.

3 librarian dreads have the very very real possibility of stopping mech lists cold .. Of course it wont be super powerful but it could wreck a lot of people

Also the first wave is 5 dreads not 3 and if the transports are dead then they wont be running anywhere.. With shield up you atleast have a 5+ save vs meltas.. Its a workable strategy

W00 H00, That would Be great to fight, Tankhunting expirence pleanty, not saying I'd actually win, I know I wont... But that would be a fun list to fight for sure!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Humblesteve wrote:For the HQ isn't a lib dread HQ? I don't have a 'dex handy.

Nope Librerian Dread a Elite, Furiso Dreadnought, with Librerian Inside

I've fought a 9 dred version and it actually dishes out the pain fairly well. Rifleman put out the hurt on just about everything, and a DC that gets into your forces before it loses an arm is not pretty.

On the other hand if you have sufficient anti armor it starts to crumble pretty quickly. I was luckily running a space wolf missile spam list, and had no trouble taking out weapons and immobilizing almost everything. I was lacking chainfists though, so the librarians caused a lot of disruption when they hit my lines. Still won by scenario as two little 5 man squads in razor backs are easy to pull off objectives with assaults, and shoot down.

Kirasu wrote:3 librarian dreads have the very very real possibility of stopping mech lists cold .. Of course it wont be super powerful but it could wreck a lot of people

Also the first wave is 5 dreads not 3 and if the transports are dead then they wont be running anywhere.. With shield up you atleast have a 5+ save vs meltas.. Its a workable strategy

Only 3 dreads can fly as each one takes an elites slot. I didn't see any hq dreads and the dex.

The 5+ save is for infantry, not vehicles ie land raiders, rhinos, and dreads.

6 dreads= good solid list

11 dreads= weak list with no scoring unit. It doesn't even hold up to chaoszilla.

You do realize I mentioned drop pods atleast 6 times right in my post?

schadenfreude wrote:
The 5+ save is for infantry, not vehicles ie land raiders, rhinos, and dreads.

It says unit. That would include vehicles, dreads etc

Illumini wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:
The 5+ save is for infantry, not vehicles ie land raiders, rhinos, and dreads.

It says unit. That would include vehicles, dreads etc

The BA codex says that all units within 6" get a 5+ cover save.

The core 5th edition rule book says that vehicles can not get cover saves unless the are obscured.

All rules from the core 5th edition rule book stand unless something in a codex specifically overrides the core rule book.

The BA codex says nothing that specifically states vehicles are obscured, so the rule from the core 5th ed rulebook stands that a vehicle can not claim a cover save unless it's obscured.

If you want to know what a 6" bubble that gives vehicles a 5+ cover save looks like read the ork codex where the big mek's kustom force field specifically states all vehicles within it's bubble are obscured, thus the ork codex overrides the 5th ed core rule book because the ork codex specifically states the bubble obscures a vehicle regardless of line of sight.

if you can kill enough enemies fast enough objectives wouldn't matter, you would just have to kill all of the opponent's men....

schadenfreude wrote:

Illumini wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:
The 5+ save is for infantry, not vehicles ie land raiders, rhinos, and dreads.

It says unit. That would include vehicles, dreads etc

The BA codex says that all units within 6" get a 5+ cover save.

The core 5th edition rule book says that vehicles can not get cover saves unless the are obscured.

All rules from the core 5th edition rule book stand unless something in a codex specifically overrides the core rule book.

The BA codex says nothing that specifically states vehicles are obscured, so the rule from the core 5th ed rulebook stands that a vehicle can not claim a cover save unless it's obscured.

If you want to know what a 6" bubble that gives vehicles a 5+ cover save looks like read the ork codex where the big mek's kustom force field specifically states all vehicles within it's bubble are obscured, thus the ork codex overrides the 5th ed core rule book because the ork codex specifically states the bubble obscures a vehicle regardless of line of sight.

BA codex says units within x inches recieve 5+ cover save.

Units are defined in the BRB on Page 3

"A unit will usually consist of several models that fight as a group, but it can also be a single, very large or powerful model, such as a battle tank..."

therefore the dreadnoughts can gain the save as codex overrides the BRB in specific instances.

Grey Templar wrote:
BA codex says units within x inches recieve 5+ cover save.

Units are defined in the BRB on Page 3

"A unit will usually consist of several models that fight as a group, but it can also be a single, very large or powerful model, such as a battle tank..."

therefore the dreadnoughts can gain the save as codex overrides the BRB in specific instances.

As a BA player, I'm interested in the answer to this.

However, you conveniently ignored the argument, which hinges on the wording "obscured" which needs to apply to vehicles for them to gain a cover save (incl dreads).

The Ork KFF specifically states it obscures vehicles. The Shield power does not.

what is the EXACT wording in the BA codex?

If it says "models within x inches recieve a cover save of 5+" then the dreadnoughts get a save.

the definition of a model is "the citadel minitures used to play games of Warhammer 40K are referred to as 'models' in the rules that follow"

if it says "Units that are within x inches..." it still gets a save as units are comprised of models.

I'd be interested to know the outcome of that as well. However, this is getting a bit off topic. As for the OP's assertion that you can make a dreadnought list: I would love to try this myself. Even if objective missions would be hard, I would love the aggressive playstyle this list would thrive on. 5+ DC dreads slamming into an ork horde would be epic.

Take it to YMDC. The debate about the Shield of Sanguinius (and also Stormcaller) comes up about once a week.

whitedragon wrote:Take it to YMDC. The debate about the Shield of Sanguinius (and also Stormcaller) comes up about once a week.

There are indeed a veritable plethora of threads about this very topic in the YMDC board, it might be worth having a read through them, there's no new arguments for/against this point in this thread however.

whitedragon wrote:Take it to YMDC. The debate about the Shield of Sanguinius (and also Stormcaller) comes up about once a week.

The largest debate about stuff in the new codex is under GWAR's unofficial blood angels FAQ 1.8

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/270/284064.page

BA.63.01 – Q: Does “Shield of Sanguinius” benefit vehicles?
A: No. The vehicle has a cover save, but because it is not also obscured, this cover save may only be used against wounds, which a vehicle
doesn't have, so this save can never be used. [R.a.W]

The core rulebook is very specific that in order to receive a cover save the vehicle must be obscured. Shield of Sanguinius would need to specifically state that it obscures a vehicle, or that it ignores that rule. It says neither, so there is a good chance that the judges in a tournament might say that it does not give cover saves to vehicles. Odds are if you talk to the judges before the tournament starts they will just say "yea yea, whatever it works for vehicles" without thinking about it, but will probably reverse their decision when an opponent calls them to the table to debate about the conflict between the codex and BRB. By that time your opponent has probably already caused a penetrating hit against a dreadnaught, and it's far too late to pop smoke when you might have wanted to pop smoke.

Anyhow if you really want to debate it further you should probably do it under the previous link to BA FAQ by GWAR. It's 10 pages long at the time of my post, and seems to be grand central for BA debate.