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I don't know too much about lore or the warhammer 40k, so I have a question for you guys
I know that as long as a space marine chapter has an apothecary and geneseed they can still replenish their numbers, but say if the chapter lost a large portion of their numbers, all their apothercaries (like the celstial lions). Would they choose become part of a chapter they are closely related too?

Possibly, although they might just ask to borrow some specialists to help regrow their number, rather than folding themsleves into another chapter.

Or they might just go out in a blaze of glory, or join the Deathwatch (or some other such organisation).

I think they just fight until extinction either that or they borrow an apothocary from their founding chapter in order to help recruitment and training of other Apothocarys

Can I argue that they realise the Emperor has forsaken them and join Chaos?

On a serious note they probably just bide their time and rebuild. Much as the Crimson Fists did after the Rynn's world fiasco

Storm Lord wrote:On a serious note they probably just bide their time and rebuild. Much as the Crimson Fists did after the Rynn's world fiasco

That's what I'm thinking. Another possibility is to go Kamikaze (sp?). I don't think there's any case of "patching over" though.

I see My plan for a dark angels/blood angels hybrid army may have failed o_o

If they still have Apothacaries they will still rebuild(unless they are led by some psyco freak who will lead them out in a blaze of glory)

If reduced to a very low number(10 or less) they might join another chapter.

since such a situation isn't covered i say go for it.

It really depends on the chapter really. I doubt any chapter would willing give up its recruiting worlds to join another. I'm also going on special chapter codexs (BA/Wolves/Templars) they have their own curses they want to keep closely guarded and I doubt would risk sharing them or giving up the fight they are currently on (Eye of Terror guard and crusades respectively)

However just vanilla marines with no obvious flaw in geneseed or what not I could see being so reduced in numbers that they might join another, yet I'm more incline to see them stick it out till they are all dead.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Adeptus Terra keeps Geenseed for every single Chapter in existence and a great deal extinct ones in a big room somewhere in case they need to pump out some marines. Maybe the marines head down to Terra and wait in lines for 400 years to get their hands on some more of their genetic material.

It probably has happened sometime in the last 10,000 years.

MekanobSamael wrote:wait in lines for 400 years

just like the dmv

I don't see why they wouldn't join another chapter.... or two depleted chapters combining. It sounds pretty reasonable.

Cool I agree that they would likely go down in a blaze of glory, but if this area has not been covered by the fluffs then I am free to do this?

Most chapters are actually made up of Ultramarines painted different colours, so there should not be too much trouble with some of them joining forces.

Though I still don't really see it happening very often/at all.

I've wounderd about this too. As I'm using it as part of the backround for my Blood Angels Successor Chapter, I'm intrested in what others have to say as well.

In the case of the Crimson fists, there were about 400 left, a large enough number to make rebuilding possible, but if they were reduced to like 100 or so with NO access to geneseed, then they would prolly go down fighting, or allow the big I to find a use for them. I seriously doubt that a chapter would allow itself the "dishonor" of combining with another chapter, even its parent chapter.

I think there's only like 30 Lamenters left yet they continue to fight on.

I always thought the Mantis Warriors had it pretty hard they have the numbers to rebuild their chapter yet they are denied it until they have redeemed themselves which is a shame 'cos they are pretty kick-ass .

purplefood wrote:I always thought the Mantis Warriors had it pretty hard they have the numbers to rebuild their chapter yet they are denied it until they have redeemed themselves which is a shame 'cos they are pretty kick-ass .

Ya, that Badab Uprising fiasco really screwed up alot of stuff.

RyanA wrote:
I know that as long as a space marine chapter has an apothecary and geneseed they can still replenish their numbers, but say if the chapter lost a large portion of their numbers, all their apothercaries (like the celstial lions). Would they choose become part of a chapter they are closely related too?

Interesting question. There are no canon instances of this happening that I know of but it certainly is not outside the realm of possible. It would effectively require the total disconnection of Chapter continuity both in organization ( all senior Marines KIA/MIA ) and recruitment/Geneseed ( number of survivors is so low it de facto would mean starting from scratch ).

Adoption to parent Chapter and/or to a "sister" Chapter of the same legacy might be possible in this case.

I think it could happen. There have already been plenty of times when chapters split to make other foundings. The new chapters then adopt new traditions and new paint schemes etc. Why couldn't it work the other way? If two chapters are fighting along side one another during some massive war and afterwards they are both greatly depleted I don't see why they couldn't join to make a new chapter, or have the remaining troops join another. Granted I can't see this happening to chapters that still have homeworlds. Even if after a war only 50-100 marines returned they could still come back from that, it would take a long time but it could happen. Now if its a space bound fleet, like a Black Templar successor chapter that gets mostly wiped out, I could see them joining another chapter just because they dont have any resources to fall back on.

BUT I dont see this happening often. Rarely is one entire chapter all fighting in one place any ways. There always seems to be small units out doing other things, like assisting other systems or Tech-marines being trained on Mars, or whatever.

The thing I wonder most about is who makes the decision. Is that something that the chapter makes on its own or some Imperial Terran bureaucrat would make?

A-P wrote:

RyanA wrote:
I know that as long as a space marine chapter has an apothecary and geneseed they can still replenish their numbers, but say if the chapter lost a large portion of their numbers, all their apothercaries (like the celstial lions). Would they choose become part of a chapter they are closely related too?

Interesting question. There are no canon instances of this happening that I know of but it certainly is not outside the realm of possible. It would effectively require the total disconnection of Chapter continuity both in organization ( all senior Marines KIA/MIA ) and recruitment/Geneseed ( number of survivors is so low it de facto would mean starting from scratch ).

Adoption to parent Chapter and/or to a "sister" Chapter of the same legacy might be possible in this case.

Uh, actually...there's a really good canon instance of this.

The Scythes of the Emperor Chapter was so badly devastated during the Tyrannic Wars that they're basically non-existent.

However, they've since become a Chapter that lends its members out to train other Chapters in combating the Tyranids and for secondment to the Deathwatch.

Kanluwen wrote:

A-P wrote:

RyanA wrote:
I know that as long as a space marine chapter has an apothecary and geneseed they can still replenish their numbers, but say if the chapter lost a large portion of their numbers, all their apothercaries (like the celstial lions). Would they choose become part of a chapter they are closely related too?

Interesting question. There are no canon instances of this happening that I know of but it certainly is not outside the realm of possible. It would effectively require the total disconnection of Chapter continuity both in organization ( all senior Marines KIA/MIA ) and recruitment/Geneseed ( number of survivors is so low it de facto would mean starting from scratch ).

Adoption to parent Chapter and/or to a "sister" Chapter of the same legacy might be possible in this case.

Uh, actually...there's a really good canon instance of this.

The Scythes of the Emperor Chapter was so badly devastated during the Tyrannic Wars that they're basically non-existent.

However, they've since become a Chapter that lends its members out to train other Chapters in combating the Tyranids and for secondment to the Deathwatch.

oh yeah!

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I think there's only like 30 Lamenters left yet they continue to fight on.

Nah, there are about five times that many! Read the fluff! (Oh, wait, I haven't posted it yet...)

Seriously though, I have done all of the research I can into Lamenters, including getting some fairly obscure old .pdfs, and I don't remember reading "30" anywhere. Lexicanum says Three Companies.

My personal Lamenters fluff has the remainder of the Lamenters with something of a schism in the ranks. 1) Those who have managed to get rid of the Curse have turned very very Codex. 2) Those for whom either the cure has failed or who have rejected the opportunity to be "cured"/stripped of their Sanguinary Heritage. Some are veering towards going rogue and allying with the Knights of Blood (some pretty psycho Blood Angel Successors who are nevertheless still pro-Imperium), while the codex guys are aligning themselves with the Ultramarines in their fight against the Tyranids.

Possible options I see for dying chapters:

1) Go out fighting
2) Retain identity, but fight alongside closely aligned chapter, so probably a parent-chapter or brother-chapter, certainly a chapter with the same Primarch and have their geneseed go to the fellow chapter
3) Fully merge back into the parent chapter
4) Join the Deathwatch and/or similar
5) Beg for more geneseed from Terra, and turn into Ultrasmurfs, as that is the only seed they are likely to give you.

Fifty wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I think there's only like 30 Lamenters left yet they continue to fight on.

Nah, there are about five times that many! Read the fluff! (Oh, wait, I haven't posted it yet...)

Seriously though, I have done all of the research I can into Lamenters, including getting some fairly obscure old .pdfs, and I don't remember reading "30" anywhere. Lexicanum says Three Companies.

quote]

I guess I was thinking of the Scythes of the Emperor. They seem to have been hit harder by the 'nids.

Kra_Z wrote:

MekanobSamael wrote:wait in lines for 400 years

just like the dmv

I don't see why they wouldn't join another chapter.... or two depleted chapters combining. It sounds pretty reasonable.

Errr...reasonable? In the grim dark future there is only war. You think that future comes about through employing reason?

no they can do it.

they just have to fill out Form A6457.342 in triplicate send it in to the administratum. and when they reply(usually in about 2-3 centuries) fill out form B578248.980 and send it to the High Lords of terra for approval.

once approval is given they must file an Intent of Merger application with the local arbites(or segmentum command if a space based chapter)

then they can merge together.

I could only see it happening if both chapters had Guilliman as their Primarch.

Eh, I can't see a loyal chapter ever letting go of its identity. Their pride would cloud their reason. Now sure, you might say but what about the Black Templars and so forth, and my response to that is, the break up after the heresy was a direct order of the primarchs, which is basically a direct order from the emperor. With all the primarchs dead or out of action I just don't see a chapter ever surrendering their chapter again.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to the Celestial Lions?

Always loved the story of those guys.

Skarwael wrote:Speaking of which, whatever happened to the Celestial Lions?

Always loved the story of those guys.

That was a sad one. Really showed what the Inquisition is really like. They are extinct as far as I know.