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Do you have to have some sort of Meltagun in your IG army to be successful? Most IG armies I see involve either Melta Vets or Melta Command Squads.

Can you rely on Lascannons and Ordnance for your anti-tank duties or are you stuck with the Meltagun as your staple?

minigun762 wrote:Do you have to have some sort of Meltagun in your IG army to be successful? Most IG armies I see involve either Melta Vets or Melta Command Squads.

Can you rely on Lascannons and Ordnance for your anti-tank duties or are you stuck with the Meltagun as your staple?

Meltaguns unfortunately. With an average Armour pen value of 15 and the bonus to Vehicle Damage, it's really the best way of vetting rid of vehicles. The only thing you have to remember is to use them to take out the right target. A Squad of Vets or CCS is no use blowing up a Rhino 1/3 of their cost.

Agreed. Meltas all the way.

Lascannons are great at a distance but costly, ordnance is (normally) better employed in killing infantry.

NEED them? Not strictly speaking. Melta is far and away the cheapest, most effective way of blowing up vehicles, which is why everybody (including me) takes a healthy dose.

Meltaguns are better and cheaper than lascannons. It was sort of a toss-up back when the meltagun's short range was an issue, and opposing vehicles only got hull down, but now that transports are half price and it's easy to outflank everything (and even regular infantry moves up to twice as fast due to sprinting), and vehicles's cover save got MUCH better against long range anti tank, there really isnt' much of a contest between them anymore.

Now, it's not to say that it's the only way. Manticores, for example, can do very unpleasant things to vehicles, especially when firing indirectly. Likewise, if you can get them across the field (or they drive up to you, as is the case with transports), priests can still stare down Land Raiders without blinking (I'm still waiting for the time that I roll 3 hits, and roll 3 18's for armor penetration), and lots and lots of stuff can now take meltabombs.

I guess I'd ask why you'd want to pass over something so good and cheap as the meltagun and be forced to use other options. I mean, I take manticores and priests and meltabombs, and I STILL bring along 17 meltaguns at 1500 points.

Its hard to not take melta's these days. As Ailaros says, they are cheap, and they get the job done.


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My brother fields melta squads with his IG, (wistfully) I wish I could do that with my space marines...

Dr. Ew wrote:My brother fields melta squads with his IG, (wistfully) I wish I could do that with my space marines...

You can, Kind of. You can play BA and Take 2 Meltaguns in an Assault Squad and a Combi Melta on the Sergeant and stick them in a Fast Rhino!

Ailaros wrote:
I guess I'd ask why you'd want to pass over something so good and cheap as the meltagun and be forced to use other options. I mean, I take manticores and priests and meltabombs, and I STILL bring along 17 meltaguns at 1500 points.

To be honest, because Meltagun bits are like $9 each from the bits sites and that adds up really fast, especially compared to a few tanks or artillery pieces here and there.

minigun762 wrote:

Ailaros wrote:
I guess I'd ask why you'd want to pass over something so good and cheap as the meltagun and be forced to use other options. I mean, I take manticores and priests and meltabombs, and I STILL bring along 17 meltaguns at 1500 points.

To be honest, because Meltagun bits are like $9 each from the bits sites and that adds up really fast, especially compared to a few tanks or artillery pieces here and there.

That's buck-wise a good argument, but tactically, meltaguns rock. Quite a few people have converted meltaguns btw, do a search and you'll find a few methods that should make things easier on the wallet. Here's my take on the cheap meltagun

minigun762 wrote:

Ailaros wrote:
I guess I'd ask why you'd want to pass over something so good and cheap as the meltagun and be forced to use other options. I mean, I take manticores and priests and meltabombs, and I STILL bring along 17 meltaguns at 1500 points.

To be honest, because Meltagun bits are like $9 each from the bits sites and that adds up really fast, especially compared to a few tanks or artillery pieces here and there.

GW sells a 5 pack of melta guns for $6.50

yeah, and I bought most of my meltaguns as plastic scout meltas that I chopped into GL arms (lord knows I'm not going to make any more GLs). I got them from thewarstore back when they were like $5 apiece, which makes two melta SWSs cost $50, which is kind of steep, but not THAT bad, compared to how much vehicles now cost.

You don't really need melta in your army. I played for quite a while with just lascannons and missle launchers as anti-vehicle. Not as cost effective, but I can start hitting things from first turn and can easily position them next to an officer. Though I will admit that I now do have a few meltaguns in my army.

Last post was on my phone, so I'm going to be more specific.



Prive $6.50

Source GW online catalog

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1660260&prodId=prod1400031

Part code: 99060101407

Against lots of front AV 14 meltas on valk vets work great. You don't need them but you can carry them with your vets so you can finally get powerful AT at rear armor.

schadenfreude wrote:Last post was on my phone, so I'm going to be more specific.


Prive $6.50

Yes, but these are metal, and thus overwhelmingly difficult to convert (and just frustratingly difficult if you have the right tools, but still...).

They're definitely the cheaper way (to the tune of 80%), but what you gain in savings, you have to spend in time and frustration.

They're easy to convert with just a craft knife - I've done ten (with GL arms) recently.

Hmm sounds like I have more options than I thought.

On a related note however, is it feasible to field enough Lascannons in an IG list to threaten multiple Land Raiders or 6 wound MCs?

Some quick math-hammering shows me that on average it takes 12 IG Lascannons to get a penetrating hit on AV14 and 15 to put down a Trygon (or equivalent).

Now you can improve that with Orders and the like, but thats still alot of points needed to take those things out at range, but it seems like you have to rely on that because IG lacks the standard Power Fist/Klaw backup that many other armies have.

Actually, having bought some of these myself, they seem to be really soft and easy to work with.

It's a 5 minute conversion.

I use wire cutters to clip off the hand. Takes about 10 seconds.

File the stub, about 10 to 30 seconds.

Drill a hole for pinning, takes about 2 minutes.

Pin the gun to a closed fist takes about 15 seconds or so.

I converted 10 all plastic khorne berzerkers into assault marines with metla guns for my knights of blood BA list. The melta guns were some of my easiest conversions, all it takes is the right tools.

Ailaros wrote:Yes, but these are metal, and thus overwhelmingly difficult to convert (and just frustratingly difficult if you have the right tools, but still...).

schadenfreude wrote:It's a 5 minute conversion.

I use wire cutters to clip off the hand. Takes about 10 seconds.

File the stub, about 10 to 30 seconds.

Drill a hole for pinning, takes about 2 minutes.

Pin the gun to a closed fist takes about 15 seconds or so.

I converted 10 all plastic khorne berzerkers into assault marines with metla guns for my knights of blood BA list. The melta guns were some of my easiest conversions, all it takes is the right tools.

Right, so if you DON'T have a wire cutter, metal file, and a pin vice, then it's a huge pain. I mean, it's probably not the HUGEST pain, because really the only thing that needs to be done is the back being cut off, but for someone inexperienced in converting, it would still be a challenge. As well, you've got to make a few pieces of plastic with very low surface area stick to a big, heavy pewter piece that's sticking way out in front of the model. Once again, doable, but it's still a pain.

the GW bits would be your best bet, IMHO.
i couldn't find any "good" deals on Feebay.
and i say you need at least 2 squads with meltas. again, my opinion.

minigun762 wrote:Hmm sounds like I have more options than I thought.

On a related note however, is it feasible to field enough Lascannons in an IG list to threaten multiple Land Raiders or 6 wound MCs?

Some quick math-hammering shows me that on average it takes 12 IG Lascannons to get a penetrating hit on AV14 and 15 to put down a Trygon (or equivalent).

Now you can improve that with Orders and the like, but thats still alot of points needed to take those things out at range, but it seems like you have to rely on that because IG lacks the standard Power Fist/Klaw backup that many other armies have.

Well, you can take up to 9 vendettas. So 27 TL lascannons in Fast Attack for 1170 points. That might be overkill though.

BishopX wrote:

minigun762 wrote:Hmm sounds like I have more options than I thought.

On a related note however, is it feasible to field enough Lascannons in an IG list to threaten multiple Land Raiders or 6 wound MCs?

Some quick math-hammering shows me that on average it takes 12 IG Lascannons to get a penetrating hit on AV14 and 15 to put down a Trygon (or equivalent).

Now you can improve that with Orders and the like, but thats still alot of points needed to take those things out at range, but it seems like you have to rely on that because IG lacks the standard Power Fist/Klaw backup that many other armies have.

Well, you can take up to 9 vendettas. So 27 TL lascannons in Fast Attack for 1170 points. That might be overkill though.

Overkill, but freakin' sweet!
seriously huge footprint too!

Ailaros wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Yes, but these are metal, and thus overwhelmingly difficult to convert (and just frustratingly difficult if you have the right tools, but still...).

schadenfreude wrote:It's a 5 minute conversion.

I use wire cutters to clip off the hand. Takes about 10 seconds.

File the stub, about 10 to 30 seconds.

Drill a hole for pinning, takes about 2 minutes.

Pin the gun to a closed fist takes about 15 seconds or so.

I converted 10 all plastic khorne berzerkers into assault marines with metla guns for my knights of blood BA list. The melta guns were some of my easiest conversions, all it takes is the right tools.

Right, so if you DON'T have a wire cutter, metal file, and a pin vice, then it's a huge pain. I mean, it's probably not the HUGEST pain, because really the only thing that needs to be done is the back being cut off, but for someone inexperienced in converting, it would still be a challenge. As well, you've got to make a few pieces of plastic with very low surface area stick to a big, heavy pewter piece that's sticking way out in front of the model. Once again, doable, but it's still a pain.

You're correct it would be a lot more time consuming for someone less experienced with conversions, and it does require some tools new players might not have.
The conversion is however easy and forgiving in that it's difficult to mess up, and very forgiving if errors do occur.
The tools are also necessary for more advanced conversions, as is the experience gained from doing plastic to metal gun swaps.
If a new player is going to eventually practice more advanced conversions metal melta gun swap outs are a good place to start building to tool set and skill base required.
All of this is however the deranged talk of chaos player that is dealing with 2 decades of being a conversion addict.
The first 5 hits of metal melta gun conversions are cheap, and more advanced conversions are in now way addictive or habit forming.
Would a disciple of the dark gods ever lie?

I never really saw why meltaguns are so awesome. They're supposedly used to take down those transports, but if you're close enough to get the melta effect, wouldn't the unit inside the transport already be where it wants to be?

But I play Orks as my main, so I guess I don't really know.

I cannot but agree about Meltaguns, reliable, cheap, deadly to anything. Short range is irrelevant if you either:

A. Have many scattered amongst your army, thus making your opponent be conscious of where his prize LR or MC is going since there's heated deathrays flying everywhere thus denying risk free mobility, which is so vital in this edition.

or

B. Have a dedicated assault unit in a Valkirye, the craft can hold it's own against almost all small arms fire and can move flat out giving it staying power and it still can drop the infantry who I believe will still be able to fire. (I think)

The plasma rifle is great if you like chancing your men every shooting phase, the melta's flaws are far out weighed by it's benefits.

minigun762 wrote:Hmm sounds like I have more options than I thought.

On a related note however, is it feasible to field enough Lascannons in an IG list to threaten multiple Land Raiders or 6 wound MCs?

Some quick math-hammering shows me that on average it takes 12 IG Lascannons to get a penetrating hit on AV14 and 15 to put down a Trygon (or equivalent).

Now you can improve that with Orders and the like, but thats still alot of points needed to take those things out at range, but it seems like you have to rely on that because IG lacks the standard Power Fist/Klaw backup that many other armies have.

Vs MCs, lascannons will help out; plasma guns are your friend there though, since they can double-tap at 12", and a vet squad with some mobility should be able to negate cover. Vs vehicles, the 2d6 armour penetration at close range is just too good to pass up on IMO. The huge difference is that 6 'penetrating' hits will put donw a trygon for good, but that a single penetrating hit (without AP1) only has a 1-in-3 chance of destroying the vehicle. This means that you need 36 lascannons to get the desired result... You could argue that immoblised would also serve you well, but 1) that can be fixed and 2) that means you still can't shoot the stuff inside but they can charge out at you... and 3) the land raider can still shoot you.

Luke_Prowler wrote:I never really saw why meltaguns are so awesome. They're supposedly used to take down those transports, but if you're close enough to get the melta effect, wouldn't the unit inside the transport already be where it wants to be?

But I play Orks as my main, so I guess I don't really know.

against transports i'd use Autocannons instead of meltas.

Luke_Prowler wrote:I never really saw why meltaguns are so awesome. They're supposedly used to take down those transports, but if you're close enough to get the melta effect, wouldn't the unit inside the transport already be where it wants to be?

Firstly, there is no way to stop transports from hitting your lines as a guard player that is also anywhere near points effective.

Secondly, if you were the opponent with all the transports, would you really want to charge them in against a hedge of 20 meltaguns? I mean, you know that your transports are going to be toast on arrival, and if the rest of your opponent's army that ISN'T carrying meltaguns is specialized to blow up what pops out of the transports, your transport charge is only going to end in a collossal flop in a surprisingly short period of time.

Plus, meltaguns are also good against heavy vehicles as well, while also being reasonably effective against MCs and causing instant death to T4 models. Meltaguns are a rare weapon in that they are actually effective against a variety of target types AND are points effective against most of them too.

Ailaros wrote:Right, so if you DON'T have a wire cutter, metal file, and a pin vice, then it's a huge pain. I mean, it's probably not the HUGEST pain, because really the only thing that needs to be done is the back being cut off, but for someone inexperienced in converting, it would still be a challenge. As well, you've got to make a few pieces of plastic with very low surface area stick to a big, heavy pewter piece that's sticking way out in front of the model. Once again, doable, but it's still a pain.

Shadenfreude is doing it properly. However, a sharp craft knife will cut off the hand and the stock. A little trim of the left side of the gun and the right side of the torso and it goes straight on the GL arms.

No worries about gluing as it will be touching the arm/hand, the shoulderpad and the torso - that's lots of surface area. If you're really worried then use superglue gel (weaker but more shock resistant) or epoxy (very strong but annoying to work with)


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CommissarKhaine wrote:but that a single penetrating hit (without AP1) only has a 1-in-3 chance of destroying the vehicle. This means that you need 36 lascannons to get the desired result... #

And that's only the expected result, 36 in no way guarantees a kill.

The trouble with meltaguns is that the dice gods don't like them (or me). On Wedenesday if I fired a meltagun at anything infantry/tank it missed until: My five man GH squad was tankshocked by his Land Raider which had been stationary up until then. I passed my LD test and thankfully got the autohit followed by a 20 for Ap and then a 5 on the VDT.
So basically I needed a bloody leadership test to hit anything. My LF with Lascannons however couldn't miss.