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Ok so, as requested by some dakkites and a friend, here is how I would play ard boyz if I happened to have my models... Comments and Crits always welcome, just expect me to retort!

HQ:
Shas’el, twin missile, plasma rifle, HW MT, HW DC, x2 SD, stim injector 136pts

Elites:
Plasma Bodygaurd: Team leader, twin missile, plasma, Bonding knife, HW MT, HW DC, x2 shield drones, x1 shas’ui, plasma, missile, multi tracker, x1 shas’ui twin missile, plasma pts 236
(joined to HQ)

Plasma Backup: Team leader, twin missile, plasma, Bonding knife, HW MT, HW DC, x2 shield drones, x1 shas’ui, plasma, missile, multi tracker, x1 shas’ui twin missile, plasma pts 236


Deathrain unit 2: Team leader, HW Blacksun, twin missile, flame, bonding knife, HW DC x2 shield drones, x1 shas’ui with twin missile, flame, x1 shas’ui with twin missile, target lock
185 pts

Troops:
X6 fire warriors, rifles, emp grenades 78 pts
-warfish, SMS, multi tracker, disruption pod, targeting array 120pts

X6 fire warriors, rifles, emp grenades 78 pts
-warfish, SMS, multi tracker, disruption pod, targeting array 120pts

X11 Kroot, x 7 kroot hounds 119pts

X11 Kroot, x 7 kroot hounds 119pts

Fast:
Piranhas x4, disruption pods, x2 target locks, targeting arrays, fletchette dischargers 330pts

Piranhas x4, disruption pods, x2 target locks, targeting arrays, fletchette dischargers 330pts

Heavy:
HH, Burst cannons, Blacksun Filter, Ion Cannon, Disruption pod, Multi tracker, target lock 140 pts

HH, Burst cannons, Blacksun Filter, Ion Cannon, Disruption pod, Multi tracker, target lock 140 pts

HH, Burst cannons, Blacksun Filter, Ion Cannon, Disruption pod, Multi tracker, target lock 140 pts

Total:2499 pts

List fixed for corrections...

woops lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
First off you're 2 points over which probably wont fly in a tourney. I would cut a piranha or 2 and use the points for more troops as it looks like those FW's will be sacrificed for the greater good. It's kinda silly to leave out one of the best tank killing weapons in the game, I feel you're going to have a rough time dealing with AV13-14.

Well the whole Tau no railgunz Idea is an experiment that FocusedFire started, in an attempt to present a different approach to the greater ignored race. I have never been to ard boys, and dunno if they would have a problem with 2 points, though if there was a problem, one team leader loses blacksun filter, problem solved.

If you have experience AV 13-14 with this type of list isnt really all that bad. 2 4 man teams of piranhas will almost guarantee 2 tanks dead, and never underestimate the value of fire warriors with emp grenades. As well, with the mobility of Tau and range of Ion cannons, most of the time, Hammerheads will be able to get side shots on non all round av 14 vehicles.

In the end, this concept is an ideda to be proven over testing, but the reliance on railgunz, and the fact that most players who play tau are used to railgunz, means they would be generally confused by this list...which is good!

Love the title, it made me lol. I like the list. Am currently tired so will go in-depth later.

I invite you to look at the troop-suiting idea in the tactics thread and my 2500 0 railguns thread.

Let me know what you think.

Lol, be sure to bring an ethereal too.

Off-topic:
@Fearspect- Not the build for the Ethereal. He gets used to make a broasides team fearless. You then take your ninja commander and have him join the fearless bullet soak. Check out the tactics thread.

@gameandwatch-The Blacksun filters on the elites seem like an unneccesary points expediture. You could drop them and a single kroot and the give each Piranha squadron 2 target locks. This would make the Piranah squadrons capable of engaging two vehicles at once and fix your 2 points over problem.

The elite/bodyguard units seem a bit over-built, possibly trim them down to where the ninja commander becomes a ninja termie(iridium armour). I would suggest putting a TL- FB on the last suit in one of these units. Sort of as a hold-out against LR Spam.

Before I say more, What tactics are you thinking of using? You going full Ninja or just looking for precision timed strikes?

Your HQ is illegal. The positional relay takes up a hard point.

@Fearspect, FF- Honestly FF, I think Fearspect was just another no railgun hater, mocking my list. He could be haten' for no pathfinders as well, as that is a pretty radical idea for tau.

Funny enough FF, the blacksun filters were there simply as a point sink, had spare points, spent them. Target lock piranhas... sold, didnt even think of that, don't know why I didn't.

@FF- The only reason my elite bodygaurd is so decked out, is due to the cost of fireknives. And it actually looks more decked out than it is. Honestly I think Tau in today's metagame needs every angle they can get, and so I abuse wound allocation a bit with my suits, which makes their configs a little complicated. Dual fusion may not be a bad idea, just in the off chance every other Landraider killer fails horribly, though, Id rather send a 78 point firewarrior squad to take it out, and be a melee speed bump to wats inside, which then leaves whats inside in the open for massed plasma fire.

How I play:
Well, many Tau players would shun me for this, but I personal HATE the ninja strat. It has never worked well for me, and when it has worked at all, it has pulled draws, nothing more, which is unexceptable for me. if the game isn't dawn of war, I prefer to deploy everything, always, save for maybe outflanking kroot. I whole heartedly believe in disruption pods, they are the most insane vehicle add-on in my opinion, and they only thing I have seen that can actively stiffle a leaf-blower IG list, even when they go first. Vendettas dont mean gak, when all of their shots dont get through...

So I usually deploy everything but kroot, and entirely focus up a single flank. In this way, I entirely overpower or whipe out a single flank, which forces my opponent to then take what he has left and either move through the debris of his ruined force( rhinos and landraiders make great roadblocks, or go around it and be exposed. This also allows me to entirely commandeer a table edge for outflankers, meaning they wont be able to outflank but I will.

Most people would argue "that works, unless your outflankers show up on the wrong side" but to be honest, kroot arent incredible, and if they show up on the wrong side(opposite my main force) then likely, they are more than a match for the back tier units the enemy has, and/or can claim the opponents objectives, which is always funny watching them scramble to stop me overrunning one half of their spawn, ignoring the other half.

Other than showing you visually, that is probably the best I can describe it...

Yeh, don't twin-linked weapons take up 2 hard-point spots?

At work, dont have my codex on hand, does it take up a hardpoint? cause if it does... its gone. Nowhere near essential to my list, just a nice thing to have...

Yep, twin-linked takes up two slots.

Okay now that I've had a little time to go over the list other than the cursory glance at your HQ I'll say this much, I don't like it. Open topped AV11 is auto cannon/missile launcher bait, no way around it. You run into SW with 1 or 2 land raiders and you get 1 turn of blocking or one good shot at their LRs and you're done. Worse if they have thunderwolf cav which I wouldn't be surprised to see in great numbers this year. You should also only have 2 disruption pods per squad and double check with the TO about if they let flechette dischargers stack. If not then drop them all or all but one.

With 4 piranhas per squad and no target locks you might as well drop the targeting arrays. You'll hit enough times to get a couple rolls on the damage table without them and you need the points. I stopped using piranhas in squads greater than 2 when they got shot off the table by eldar pathfinders and rending pens.

If you're going to run a deathrain unit with a team leader who has a flamer at least give him a HW multi-tracker too.

I can get more shots out of one fireknife squad than you do in your whole heavy support section, just keep that in mind.

Also with your railheads now you're giving up triple KP in mission 3 so you really should look into broadsides. Not to mention you don't need any black sun filters as there's no nightfighting for the prelims.

I'll be honest, I'm pretty sure my 2000 point list with railguns and fireknife suits would wipe you off the table if you ran this exact list.

First of all, if you are talking standard firknives, than you are talking ballistic skill 3 fireknives, which hit with half their shots, and would get whiped by a single ion head in most scenarios. IN NO WAY does a single fireknife squad out shoot 3 ion heads, BS 3 and 6 guns total...sorry, but thats crap.

Piranhas: 2 pods per team, hadn't even thought of that, that is a damn good idea. Now with regards to a wolf list with missile long fangs, and 2 landraiders, possibly some wolf cavalry, or any variation of the three...Of course there is always the chance of the piranhas whiffing...thats always a possibility, but being fast skimmers, means that in most circumstances they would be able to close the distance to be in half rang no problem, which means 4 half range ballistic skill 4 melta shots... Now, Im pretty sure that would at the very least CRIPPLE a Landraider. I mean, if a half range melta shot penetrates which is very possible, a 3+ on the damage table is very good odds.

Thunderwolf cavalry, having never faced them, make me a little nervous, Ill admit it, but they would get the same response as terminators. Spam as many armor ignoring shots as I can. And thunderwolves are a large point sink.

Once again, blacksun, just a place to use points.

Broadsides: If Broadsides could get twin linked Ion cannons, I would take em with this list. But alas, they don't, and the point here is to diverge from the standard Tau metagame. If we were near each other I would welcome the challenge, 500 points is a lot, and I honestly would have to see your list to generate any such opinion, but from my experience there is not a whole lot of good Tau players out there, so at the very least I would give you a run for your money!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:Yep, twin-linked takes up two slots.

Yeah knew that, just forgot that Pos Relay takes up a hardpoint

MrDrumMachine wrote:Okay now that I've had a little time to go over the list other than the cursory glance at your HQ I'll say this much, I don't like it. Open topped AV11 is auto cannon/missile launcher bait, no way around it. You run into SW with 1 or 2 land raiders and you get 1 turn of blocking or one good shot at their LRs and you're done. Worse if they have thunderwolf cav which I wouldn't be surprised to see in great numbers this year. You should also only have 2 disruption pods per squad and double check with the TO about if they let flechette dischargers stack. If not then drop them all or all but one.

Thunderwolves evaporate to Ion Cannon fire unless they take the Storm Shields at which point their expense outwieghs their effectiveness. They are slow and avoidable until they get into assault range and if they have the inv save they still wilt to pulse weapon fire.

If they are spending even more points on the land raders that is even better. I like it when opponents spend over half of their available points on units that don't really do that much damage.

The 2 Dis pods per unit is a good point, until a lucky shot gets through and takes one out thereby making the other one pretty much useless.

MrDrumMachine wrote:With 4 piranhas per squad and no target locks you might as well drop the targeting arrays. You'll hit enough times to get a couple rolls on the damage table without them and you need the points. I stopped using piranhas in squads greater than 2 when they got shot off the table by eldar pathfinders and rending pens.

You were deploying them first turn weren't you? Piranha work best coming in from reserve.

MrDrumMachine wrote:If you're going to run a deathrain unit with a team leader who has a flamer at least give him a HW multi-tracker too.

Good point but not madatory if points are tight.

MrDrumMachine wrote:I can get more shots out of one fireknife squad than you do in your whole heavy support section, just keep that in mind.

You just discredited yourself with this. First, The Ion heads give a superior rate of fire unless you ignore the burst cannons.

Now if you are talking about them getting glanced, then you start to have a point until you take into account the Ioncannons superior range which generally makes up for the turns where this happens.

Also, Broadsides will be eaten alive by the dual Malwoc lists out there and Railheads don't provide enough anti-AV 13-14. The 0 railgun list uses the points saved by running the Ion cannon into putting the anti-AV 13-14 into other areas and focuses upon volume of ant-AV10-12 fire that is also effective against monsterous creatures and MEQ.

MrDrumMachine wrote:Also with your railheads now you're giving up triple KP in mission 3 so you really should look into broadsides. Not to mention you don't need any black sun filters as there's no nightfighting for the prelims.

The OP is building an all comers/ all mission version of my 0 railgun list. My 0 railgun list has a better chance of winning the first two missions than the standard broadside spam.

MrDrumMachine wrote:I'll be honest, I'm pretty sure my 2000 point list with railguns and fireknife suits would wipe you off the table if you ran this exact list.

Funny, so far my list has beaten the dog snot out of the standard Tau lists.

@FF- Agreed...hahaha

The problem you'll run into with t-wolf cav is that while they have several hundred points invested in them, they will also have thundershields, wound allocation, probably at least 1 lord on a wolf and as t5 and no way to double them out they'll make it across the field to you almost every time.

My remark about a single squad of standard fireknives was simply about volume, not about outshooting the ionheads. BS 3 to 4 can mean a great deal, but when I get 4 times the shots at close range, and can punch through 2+ saves I'll take more fireknives over ionheads every time. There is something to be said for having a 60" range but with 'Ard Boyz 5 days away and knowing the missions, I just don't see having a 60" range as a real advantage with so many armies wanting to come over and kick the tau in the teeth.

The lack of pathfinders also compounds the problem for this list but I don't think they're always necessary. I tend to have at least a single unit of 8 pathfinders. This is because I figure if I'm going to have to take devilfish to protect my weenie fire warriors I might as well find 96 points and strip some cover/boost my BS.

gameandwatch wrote:
Broadsides: If Broadsides could get twin linked Ion cannons, I would take em with this list. But alas, they don't, and the point here is to diverge from the standard Tau metagame. If we were near each other I would welcome the challenge, 500 points is a lot, and I honestly would have to see your list to generate any such opinion, but from my experience there is not a whole lot of good Tau players out there, so at the very least I would give you a run for your money!

Now that's a thought! Can you imagine 9 t/l ion cannon shots from the same unit of 3 broadsides? oooooh

focusedfire wrote:

MrDrumMachine wrote:Okay now that I've had a little time to go over the list other than the cursory glance at your HQ I'll say this much, I don't like it. Open topped AV11 is auto cannon/missile launcher bait, no way around it. You run into SW with 1 or 2 land raiders and you get 1 turn of blocking or one good shot at their LRs and you're done. Worse if they have thunderwolf cav which I wouldn't be surprised to see in great numbers this year. You should also only have 2 disruption pods per squad and double check with the TO about if they let flechette dischargers stack. If not then drop them all or all but one.

Thunderwolves evaporate to Ion Cannon fire unless they take the Storm Shields at which point their expense outwieghs their effectiveness. They are slow and avoidable until they get into assault range and if they have the inv save they still wilt to pulse weapon fire.

If they are spending even more points on the land raders that is even better. I like it when opponents spend over half of their available points on units that don't really do that much damage.

The 2 Dis pods per unit is a good point, until a lucky shot gets through and takes one out thereby making the other one pretty much useless.

From what I've seen the thunderwolves at 2500 will almost always have thundershields at this points level, don't get caught with your pants down.

And "slow" is having a 12" charge range?

Maybe it's just because I don't count on piranha's other than to act as target saturation and movement blockers + providing an extra bubblewrap unit, anything else after that is gravy.

focusedfire wrote:

MrDrumMachine wrote:If you're going to run a deathrain unit with a team leader who has a flamer at least give him a HW multi-tracker too.

Good point but not madatory if points are tight.

Thanks

focusedfire wrote:

MrDrumMachine wrote:I can get more shots out of one fireknife squad than you do in your whole heavy support section, just keep that in mind.

You just discredited yourself with this. First, The Ion heads give a superior rate of fire unless you ignore the burst cannons.

Now if you are talking about them getting glanced, then you start to have a point until you take into account the Ioncannons superior range which generally makes up for the turns where this happens.

Also, Broadsides will be eaten alive by the dual Malwoc lists out there and Railheads don't provide enough anti-AV 13-14. The 0 railgun list uses the points saved by running the Ion cannon into putting the anti-AV 13-14 into other areas and focuses upon volume of ant-AV10-12 fire that is also effective against monsterous creatures and MEQ.

I just don't see the burst cannons getting much use, especially if you're going for repositioning for side armor, which with only having str 7 you'll have to do, especially against guard.

I've yet to see any tyranids running even a single mawloc to any success (battle reports or otherwise, there just aren't any nids players in the area that bother with them, it's all trygons and tervigons in these parts). Its' not like the mawloc will ID my broadsides either so I'm really unconcerned about it even if I do face one.

focusedfire wrote:

MrDrumMachine wrote:Also with your railheads now you're giving up triple KP in mission 3 so you really should look into broadsides. Not to mention you don't need any black sun filters as there's no nightfighting for the prelims.

The OP is building an all comers/ all mission version of my 0 railgun list. My 0 railgun list has a better chance of winning the first two missions than the standard broadside spam.

I thought he was building an 'Ard boyz list so I was trying to critique it as such.

focusedfire wrote:

MrDrumMachine wrote:I'll be honest, I'm pretty sure my 2000 point list with railguns and fireknife suits would wipe you off the table if you ran this exact list.

Funny, so far my list has beaten the dog snot out of the standard Tau lists.

This isn't your list though, I find the concept interesting but I just don't trust it at this point.

Ok once again, at close range fireknives will not output more than an ionhead, that is 4 times more... 9 BS4 shots at 18 ", vs 12 bs3 shots at 12". means that on average they will hit roughly the same amount at greater distance. Granted yes, they dont have ap2, but ap3 is no slouch, and 135 pts for 9 BS4 shots, 3 of which punch through marine armor...thats fine with me.

Thunderwolves, like any other massed melee blob, fall primarily to sheer massed fire. If needed, I could simply focus on the rest of the army, since most of the missions are relient on troops, and let the wolves walk/run around. Not saying ill kill them all, but for large unit to have all storm shields, kitted out, etc. that is a HUGE point sink, which doesnt leave much else.

If you read the title of the thread, the point was 0 railgunz, 0 pathfinders, meaning this is not a thread to jump in and say "this wont work, I know this through no experience, railgunz railgunzz railgunz..." It is an adaption of an idea to remove Tau players from the reliance on two constantly and nearly always repeated units in Tau army builds...Pathfinders and Railgunz, specifically Railheads and Broadsides. Therefore it is an ard' boyz list CONCEPT to these constraints. If you play Tau, which I hope you do instead of those who are no more than codex "experts", try some of these ideas out, with variation. Maybe itl work for you maybe not, something can always look good on paper, but that never means it will actually function....

@OP: Busted :(

lol

I've been thinking about this and i just have to say it. No railguns = fail.
Its one extremly nice gun we can use and not even bring 1. Sure ion cannons are ok and all and I respect the multiple shots but I just can't say I am that taken with that unit. If Ion heads had heavy 4 I would be more impressed but to me they are a bit lack luster. Give me 2 rail heads and a trio of broadsides anyday. Those guys are always star preformers to me.

I like the idea in theory of what yoru trying to do and I respect it. But having said that going the distance with a bad codex and not taking the tools is Lose.

@vagorin- Thats cool, to each their own. I started on the 0 railguns idea last year when someone made a comment about Railguns being mandatory. Whenever someone says a unit is utter rubbish or absolutely mandatory I immediately begin to questions these dogmatic statements. My questioning lead me to my 0 railgun list that gameandwatch has taken even further by dropping the pathfinders.


Now how I developed the list was by looking at which units could replace the Anti-AV 13-14 of the expensive railguns for less points. I found two units.

One was cheap deepstriking XV8's equipped with FB and Flamers. Teams of two shas'ui come in around 82-98 points depending upon wargear.

The other was the Piranha equipped with FB. comes to about 2.5 piranha per Railhead and a squadron of four is about the same price as a broadside team.

Using the units in the Primary role of Anti-AV 13-14 allowed me to run the Ionheads in a multi-purpose role of anti-light vehicle and anti-meq.

The trick with this build is when to bring which unit in. So the commander is equipped with the Positional Relay, I run pathfinders in my list because of their devilfishes markerbeacon allows for very aggressive placement of the deepstrikers, and I usually hold the Piranha in reserve until they can come in killin'.

When I was done building this list, I found that I really liked it because of its depth/redundancies and tactical flexibility. Basically the list suits my playstyle. I don't know if it will suit other peoples style but figured I'd post it after having played it for a while. I'm flattered by gameandwatches thread here but am also interested in the different directions he might take with this list.

I agree on some points, but ultamitely it came down to one defining factor for me... points... Broadsides can be slightly more reliable, but when it comes to vehicle destruction, HH simply can't stand the test of time. They fail so often to even hit with their single high powered shot, that they are in no way reliable when it comes to anti vehicle ordinance.

As Ion heads, you remove that limitation, greatly reduce the points that soak up, and give them a more reliable dedicated multi-purpose role that keeps them busy, and increases their overall success rate.

Focusedfire I'll say Aun'Va is totally and utterly rubbish and I honestly wouldn;t take him if he cost -100 points! (yes that is a minus sign).

Can you come up with an argument that he doesn't totally suck in every conceivable situation?

I like the new take on the Tau list though and any break from the usual monotony o fthe cookie cutter Railhead + Broadsides + Fireknives lists is a boon partiocularly if you can get them to work.

If appears though you've still got ideas just shifted round. So the crisis become the railheads the Piranhas te broadsides and the Hammerheads the Fireknives... I can't honestly see it having hugely more tactical flexibility just different delivery mechanisms and it seems to require more co-ordination that the usual lists, but that is often the sign of a good army build (and player) .

focusedfire wrote:@vagorin- Thats cool, to each their own. I started on the 0 railguns idea last year when someone made a comment about Railguns being mandatory. Whenever someone says a unit is utter rubbish or absolutely mandatory I immediately begin to questions these dogmatic statements. My questioning lead me to my 0 railgun list that gameandwatch has taken even further by dropping the pathfinders.


Now how I developed the list was by looking at which units could replace the Anti-AV 13-14 of the expensive railguns for less points. I found two units.

One was cheap deepstriking XV8's equipped with FB and Flamers. Teams of two shas'ui come in around 82-98 points depending upon wargear.

The other was the Piranha equipped with FB. comes to about 2.5 piranha per Railhead and a squadron of four is about the same price as a broadside team.

Using the units in the Primary role of Anti-AV 13-14 allowed me to run the Ionheads in a multi-purpose role of anti-light vehicle and anti-meq.

The trick with this build is when to bring which unit in. So the commander is equipped with the Positional Relay, I run pathfinders in my list because of their devilfishes markerbeacon allows for very aggressive placement of the deepstrikers, and I usually hold the Piranha in reserve until they can come in killin'.

When I was done building this list, I found that I really liked it because of its depth/redundancies and tactical flexibility. Basically the list suits my playstyle. I don't know if it will suit other peoples style but figured I'd post it after having played it for a while. I'm flattered by gameandwatches thread here but am also interested in the different directions he might take with this list.

I guess I don't see 98 points of suicide unit that kills 1 tank and dies as being more efficient than a 200 point broadside unit that shoots at 2 different targets for 3-5 turns. If I can kill 3 or 4 rhinos/land speeders with a single unit of broadsides, I think that will do me more good than killing 1 land raider in terms of game play, especially with piranha blocking and delaying.

I also don't trust coming in via deepstrike and being able to do the damage I want to a little better than 50% of the time, especially if I'm going second and my opponent couldn't care less what happened to his land raider as he already got 24" of movement out of it (if we go with the idea that you try to keep your piranha in reserves).

I disagree on the use of piranhas but if both work then we're probably both right, just different philosophies.

@gameandwatch

Here's a list by goatboy and I just don't see how removing pathfinders and railguns gives you an advantage against it.

Goatboy wrote:HQ: Wolf Lord, Thunder Wolf, Saga of the Bear, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Runic Armor, Wolf Tail Talisman, Fenris Wolves X 2
HQ: Wolf Lord, Thunder Wolf, Saga of the Warrior Borne, Frost Axe, Storm Shield, Runic Armor, Wolf Tail Talisman, Fenris Wolves X 2
HQ: Wolf Lord, Thunder Wolf, Saga of the Wolfkin, Powerfist, Storm Shield, Runic Armor, Wolf Tail Talisman, Fenris Wolves X 2
HQ: Rune Priest
Elites: Iron Priest, Thunder Wolf Mount, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Cyber Wolves X 4
Troops: 9 Grey Hunters, Meltagun, Power Weapon, Mark of The Wolfen, Rhino
Troops: 10 Grey Hunters, 2 Meltagun, Power Weapon, Mark of the Wolfen, Rhino
Troops: 10 Grey Hunters, 2 Meltagun, Power Weapon, Mark of the Wolfen, Rhino
Troops: 10 Grey Hunters, 2 Flamers, Power Weapon, Mark fo the Wolfen, Rhino
FA: 15 Fenris Wolves
Heavy: 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers
Heavy: 6 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers
Heavy: 6 Long Fangs, 2 Lascannons, 3 Heavy Bolters

I don't see the volume of fire in the list to do what needs to be done to keep you from getting torn to shreds and if I'm building an all comers list then I need to take crazy crap like this into account.

gameandwatch wrote: If you play Tau, which I hope you do instead of those who are no more than codex "experts", try some of these ideas out, with variation. Maybe itl work for you maybe not, something can always look good on paper, but that never means it will actually function....

I do plan on trying something like this as I find it interesting but I am putting my money where my mouth is with Tau this 'Ard Boyz and here's the list I'm bringing http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/292144.page

With the missions out I have something like 31 KP for the last one and enough threats on the table to distract from killing the kroot until it's too late with reserving one or 2 squads as a safety precaution. While my way definitely isn't the only way it's what I know works and what I can feel confident as recommending will be competitive.

I have a friend that plays tau @ my FLGS, and after him seeing this list he wanted to try it against me. I run a Dualwing Dark Angels list that massacres his Broadside spam tau EVERY time.

He did much better with this list, mainly because of me dropping out of deep strike and not running far enough or @ all. Those Ion heads ate some of my terms hard core =(.

Sadly, my Scouting bikes and Deep striking terminators still won out. In your face turn 1 sort of kills Tau, especially when I have my back field packed with 2 3x P.Cannon Dev squads and 2 M.Guns 2 Rocket Launchers for the Jump packers coming towards me.

@ MRDrumMachine- Took a look at your list, and not to be rude, but I honestly fear nothing that that list brings to the table. First off, Heavy wise, assuming of course we were both at ard boys, and playing each other, assuming you are aiming at my tanks with your heavies and you have first turn with views on any of them... half your shots on average will get through, with only a 23% chance of destroying a HH, and a 50%(roughly) chance of destroying a devilfish...

Nothing else greatly threatens my armor(BS3 missile pods mean 9 total hits on average, 4-5 of which are ignore, and only a 33% chance to do any total damage on av 12, av13 being almost no chance. I will give you the benefit of the dice, you get good odds, and kill a HH and a devilfish. My turn starts, frontline piranhas are in range of all your vehicles, other piranhas are aiming at one unit of broadsides, all my suits are in range, etc. Being within 12" with piranhas means no DP, and most likely all of your vehicles are gone, with 1 broadside team at half strength(perhaps retreated off the board).

Granted this is obviously entirely hypothetical, but because of the small number of reliable units in your army, and small numbers in general(i do not understand 10 man units of kroot) I just dont see anyway you would be able to beat my list...

If you have a different theory, then please tell me how exactly you would pick apart this list... and keep in mind we use the same army, and same units, and therefore no one can outrun the other...

FlingitNow wrote:Focusedfire I'll say Aun'Va is totally and utterly rubbish and I honestly wouldn;t take him if he cost -100 points! (yes that is a minus sign).

Can you come up with an argument that he doesn't totally suck in every conceivable situation?

I like the new take on the Tau list though and any break from the usual monotony o fthe cookie cutter Railhead + Broadsides + Fireknives lists is a boon partiocularly if you can get them to work.

If appears though you've still got ideas just shifted round. So the crisis become the railheads the Piranhas te broadsides and the Hammerheads the Fireknives... I can't honestly see it having hugely more tactical flexibility just different delivery mechanisms and it seems to require more co-ordination that the usual lists, but that is often the sign of a good army build (and player) .

About Aun'va, yes, two situations. The first situation is as a unique paperwieght. The second situation is in one of those motivational posters using the line,"Get off of my lawn".

About your "compliment". The list is faster and more mobile than a broadside spam list while retaining just as much VoF. My version of the list has just as much AT without being as dependent upon marker lights to reduce cover and puts the units in position to be fired upon only after they take out an opposing unit of greater value. The list also allows for troops to be fielded in effective numbers without them being tasked to bubble wrap duty. Don't know if thinking and taking all of these things into account while developing a list and its strategies makes me a good player, but if you say so.

"Gimmick: In marketing language, a gimmick is a quirky feature that distinguishes a product or service without adding any obvious function or value."

Boasting over not using Railguns seems a little odd to me. Why would you willingly give up your best way of downing AV 14 vehicles? I see 2 units in your list that can kill heavy tanks. 2 units. At 2500 points. Sheesh. Do you honestly believe that any half compotent general will let your 2 anti tank units within 6 inches of his prized armour, that he wouldn't just 'bubble wrap' them with infantry or simply shoot your 8 light skimmers out of the sky? I'm impressed that you are looking for news ways to make Tau work, honestly I am, but handicapping your self in this way isn't the way to go; just invest in some good old fashioned PR/MP and Railguns and shoot the frickin enemy off the table I say.

Will Piranhas kill tanks? Most certainly. Would I rely on them to do all the heavy lifting in my army? Hell no. 2 units that are only AV 11 10 10 and also open topped AND IN A SQUADRON won't last very long at all against any dedicated anti tank. Also, please remove the EMP's from the Fire warriors, its a waste of points, if your Fire warriors are charging Tanks something has gone seriously wrong (Maybe your 2 (TWO!!!) anti tank units were killed and 2500 points of armour walzted into your deployment zone )

Its Ard boyz gentlemen, you can untie your hands from behind your back and let loose a few swings, bring some proper lists.