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I've seen a few games with Nids recently and the poor Carnifex looks like it's lost a lot of "OOMPH" since the last dex.

Other monsters are either better, cheaper, do more stuff or all of the above.

But is the Fex still worth it at all???

It would be a shame really if it isn't as it is such a kool model.

The Carnifex has had its number of attacks increased by 2, its Initiative increased by 2 if it charges, and that's if you give it guns rather than close combat weapons. Adrenal Glands improve its Initiative on the charge up to I4. Frag Spines give it Assault Grenades. Bio-Plasma is now a S7 AP2 Blast attack. This allows them to be gunboats without sacrificing their ability to smash stuff in close combat, and in fact be better at close combat, particularly against stuff in cover, or fighting at I1.

Scything Talons allow missed attacks to be re-rolled, and Crushing Claws won't replace its Attacks but instead supplement them. You can give them a Mycetic Spore or take a brood of up to 3.

Tervigons can give them Feel No Pain, or use Onslaught so that they can run and fire.

Dude see thread about "nid's now a weak codex" lotta unhappy nid players there.

radiohazard wrote:I've seen a few games with Nids recently and the poor Carnifex looks like it's lost a lot of "OOMPH" since the last dex.

Other monsters are either better, cheaper, do more stuff or all of the above.

But is the Fex still worth it at all???

It would be a shame really if it isn't as it is such a kool model.

Its not a bad unit but it does definitely suffer from comparisons with other units in the codex.

It doesn't assault as well as the assaulty monster (trygon), doesn't shoot as well as the shooty monsters (insert long list here) isn't as tough as the tough monsters (t-fex, t-gon and t-guard) and doesn't work as a force multiplier like the t-gon and tyrant do (and sort of the trygon).

You can build it to both shoot and assault better than probably any other monster in the dex (maybe not the tyrant and comparable to the t-fex) but then you're looking at a big chunk of pts. Even naked or in a screamer killer build it compares poorly to the trygon for the pts.

About the only niche it seems to really work in is spod, shoot, charge which is costly but nasty. If you want an all spodding nid army filling up your heavy slots with carnies is probably your best bet.

I disagree. While the tyrannofex outclasses the carnifex at range and the trygon is more of a close combat monster, the humble carnifex can be put to good use in larger groups. It may cost more but by adding 2 primes to 2 fexes you can claim a cover save.

If you are gonna spod stuff in might as well use a trygon. More wounds and better in cc against anything that isn't AV14.

3 Carnifex
Venomthropes to provide 5+ cover (-1 to the save but works better & cheaper than the 2 primes)
Trygon behind them for FNP

That 12 T6 3+/5++ FNP wounds to deal with, NOT fun.

I think theyre better for map control/defense than anything. No one will want to send their land raiders/deepstriking termies (bioplasma)/nobs/etc. at them. They are capable of getting 12 Strength 6 shots at 18" a turn, which is absolutely ridiculous (shot and killed the keeper of secrets with those 12 shots alone).

Not for every list though. I think theyd be better with tervigons/venomthropes camping an objective, but I prefer to play all out offense in which theyre too slow at.

Night Lords has a point about the Nobz: Carnifexes can Instant Death them in a way that Trygons can't due to S6. Plus 2D6+9 is far more likely to get a penetrating hit on a Land Raider, and only S9+ is going to penetrate a Monolith.

Venomthropes are a natural adjunct to a brood of Carnifexes. They both have Instinctive Behaviour: Feed so you can let them wander off together, and the Spore Cloud gives them mobile cover.

Essentially they are your main source of >S7 in close combat, with S10 meaning Ork warbosses arent too happy if you get the charge off - which unless you are a complete muppet and dont know how to screen units properly you should be able to do. (You have horde elements, use them!)

I4 on the charge means you cause a lot of MEQ deaths at the same time as they get to hit you- a big deal. Rerolls meaning your lowly weapon skill isnt as much of a hindrance.

195 points for the SK build seems the sweet spot - regen etc are too many points.

My one complaint is it should have retained it's 2+ armor save. It's historically been compared to being as durable as Terminator Armor, and now it's reduced clear down to mere Power Armor.

Aduro wrote:My one complaint is it should have retained it's 2+ armor save. It's historically been compared to being as durable as Terminator Armor, and now it's reduced clear down to mere Power Armor.

To be fair its still tougher then a single terminator (or even a small squad of them) by a wide margin, so its not as if the fluff is now incorrect. I'd certainly like T6 Sv 3+ terminators, not even taking into account its wounds.

I do rather think it would have been nice if old one eye got a 2+ though.

Jack

Carnifexes are Hilarious. Was playing a game last night, dude was running Podding Dual Talon Carnifexes.

One Came in turn 2, it died to 15 Krak Missiles from my Fangs.

The other 2 came in turn 3. Managed to alphastrike 1 of them with a single Long Fang unit and reduce the other to 1 wound, which it lost to a heavy bolter.

I felt sorry for my opponent :(

I love my Fex, I choose him over a Trygon most of the time as he is better and cheaper for blowing up tanks.
It was a massive mistake charging him at 150 Ork Boyz in an Apoc game though.

I have found them to still be decent as deviltyrants with the dual devourers but other than that they just don't compare to the trygon especially with the lack of fleet.

What is a real crying shame is Old One Eye. At 260 points it is possibly one of the crappiest units in any codex which is saying something for the same codex that sports the pyrovore.

Pyrovore bad then?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Pyrovore bad then?

Terribad. Talos level bad. Honour Guard level bad.

hey! I have a Talos :(

Pyrovores are good, it's just that people are clueless when it comes to what they do. Specifically they're for charging Fearless troops in cover.

Since they have I1, the effects of difficult terrain don't come into it. The Flamespurt is a Heavy Flamer, which is good, and works even when the Pyrovore is under the effects of Instinctive Behaviour, which is good because then they can land nearby to the enemy in a Mycetic Spore.

But it's the Volatile and Acid Blood rules that are the real kicker, combined with the Pyrovore's 60mm base to maximize the number of enemy in close combat, they explode if hit by a Power Fist, and inflict wounds with no armour or cover save for every unsaved wound they take.

Once the enemy is either softened up, drawn out of cover, or remains locked in combat, you send in the rest of the bugs without worrying about the Initiative penalty.

But hey, apparently some people can't figure out the Carnifex, so what hope have they of the Pyrovore?

Thats pretty much what we saw the pyrovore used as - its a suicide bug

Nurglitch...perhaps you could start a thread about some of the newer tyranid units. I for one am interested in your take on things. There's so much new stuff that allows for a huge variety of playstyles some nid players (myself included) get overwhelmed with the possibilities.

Biovores. They stay around all game and don't take up an elite slot and they soften up troops in cover just fine and they are cheaper than pyrovores because you don't have to pod them. You can try to frost the turd cake that is the pyrovore all you want but in the end it is still a turd cake.

Vepr wrote:Biovores. They stay around all game and don't take up an elite slot and they soften up troops in cover just fine and they are cheaper than pyrovores because you don't have to pod them. You can try to frost the turd cake that is the pyrovore all you want but in the end it is still a turd cake.

Your cunning and persuasive argument may have changed my mind, but it was your reputation for tactical genius that got my attention.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Dude see thread about "nid's now a weak codex" lotta unhappy nid players there.

There's a lot of happy Nid players there too.

Show me ONE.

As a Tyranid player I'm very pleased with the new Codex.

I love the new `Nid book. And I think the Pyrovore is really good at what it does, which is kill infantry. I just don't think you need to take non-Scoring units that only specialize in killing Infantry because the rest of the book does that so well without trying typically.

alexwars1 wrote:Show me ONE.

I think my posts were fairly neutral. Im happy the book has less hurpity durp i run across the table and eat you. It relies on more synergy. I am unhappy we are stuck with auto losing just about to anyone running leafblower or wolves, which wouldnt be a problem if there werent so many netlist kiddies who bring those to events.

I do think its the best balanced book though, and probably the best for casual play at the moment.

You can view it differently.
Carnifexes have evolved such that their less evolved sisters extincted.

alexwars1 wrote:Show me ONE.

Me and my partner both. He played them at a local campaign weekend and did middling with them, against some strong armies.

SOrry, facts getting in the way of a whinefest, I'll go now...

alexwars1 wrote:Show me ONE.

Here's another one!

Oh sorry were we supposed to stay in the background?