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I honestly, in 5th Ed, can't think of a non vehicle scenario where a KFF would be worth its points.
1 - it takes up a HQ slot.
2 - Considering infantry only, I can propose several methods of taking advantage of other units/ a mob of ard boys, that can fill the 'give other units saves' role while also givin extra shooting/CC/slow down abilities.
3 - Its a 5+ save - now even chest high walls give that to people.
4 - Do you ever play on a coverless board? I don't.

Now I'd love some constructive feedback, but after using a KFF in a recent game just to experiment, I couldn't see a moment where I saw him actually DO what he was supposed to.

In relation to infantry: The ability to always have cover even when in the open is rather valuable in my book, since you often have to move ouyt of actual cover to take objectives, get into range of enemy, etc., etc.

In relation to vehicles it's value is obvious.


what else do you need that second HQ slot for a 2nd Warboss?!? Only gitz field two warbosses...

I personally field 2 SAG or an SAG and a warphead

I use one, but only because of its protection for my Battlewagons. It's saved my plan more than once.

the_ferrett wrote:I honestly, in 5th Ed, can't think of a non vehicle scenario where a KFF would be worth its points.


Now I'd love some constructive feedback, but after using a KFF in a recent game just to experiment, I couldn't see a moment where I saw him actually DO what he was supposed to.

Here's your constructive feedback:

The KFF is most valuable in a scenario where you have vehicles. Tanks, transports, or walkers. Don't feel the need to call an incredibly valuable unit overrated simply because you don't use it in a situation that makes good use of it.

Tables and terrain vary widely, and sometimes opponents are able to move and get angles from which your units don't have cover from terrain or each other, or can otherwise have that cover negated (such as with barrage weapons, or using Lash).

I agree that 5th makes it possible for a foot horde to potentially succeed without a KFF, but it's still darn handy for the price (especially since you have to take at least one HQ regardless), and it's amazing for lists which do use vehicles.

Dashofpepper wrote:

the_ferrett wrote:I honestly, in 5th Ed, can't think of a non vehicle scenario where a KFF would be worth its points.


Now I'd love some constructive feedback, but after using a KFF in a recent game just to experiment, I couldn't see a moment where I saw him actually DO what he was supposed to.

Here's your constructive feedback:

The KFF is most valuable in a scenario where you have vehicles. Tanks, transports, or walkers. Don't feel the need to call an incredibly valuable unit overrated simply because you don't use it in a situation that makes good use of it.

Yet again the resident Ork player has it right

Saying the KFF is over rated is honestly a stupid remark to make. Yes its tremendously better for vehicle types thats a given, but saying that getting a 5+ cover against shooting in the open is awesome. Yes its not a 3+ from storm shields or something like that, but when your running a horde you just cant hide that many bodies behind terrain. Ive had it save my ass many times from vindicators for example.

I mean for 50pts, you get something that you can easily cover 2 or 3 squads with, and get saves from things that you would other wise lost minis for. Not to mention that with that BigMek you can field a deff dred as a troop choice. I mean the potential to have 5 dreds or 2 dreds and 9 kans is pretty awesome in my book.

I had dropped them from most of my foot lists, but (assuming you can roll 4+) they make a huge difference with vehicles.

If you just want a cover save for your boyz, you can spend the same points on grots, without losing your hq slot, getting a better save, a scoring unit, and so on.

KFFs areawsome because they will give you a save when you wouldn't get one at all.


Orks as a rule don't get saves vs shooting(unless there are flashlights involved) and certaintly not against large blast weapons like battle, demolisher and earthshaker cannons.

the ability to save 1/3 of the wounds on an ork mob is awsome.

one KFF can cover 2 boy mobz easily, 2 can cover your entire army with good positioning.

if you absolutly can't live without scoring nobs then one KFF will work fine.

now you won't benefit from the KFF against flamers, but then you are close to getting stuck in and thats what you want.




KFF works awsomely with vehicle spam, but don't discount it for footsloggers.

KFF also protects you from Drop Pods and deep strikers from dropping behind your lines (and cover) and shooting you to peices. While a 5+ is not great it is better than just removing half your unit. I have seen it used to great effect on footsloggers.

CT GAMER wrote: what else do you need that second HQ slot for a 2nd Warboss?!? Only gitz field two warbosses...

In my upcoming Orks list, I'll be using two warbosses. One on foot, and one on a bike. I like mah boyz ded Killy

So, in short, I'm a git

S_P

At the Platinum Devil friendly tournament it was the Ork player who won it with his KFF formation.

It consisted of a KFF equipped Grot witha retinue of Mega-armoured Nobs and two or three units or Killa Kans with Rokkits and Power Klaws and stuff.

It was basically impenetrable by my Tyranids and obviously did well enough against the other armies (IG, SMs and Chaos) to get the win.

We were playing 1,000 point games which often makes a difference to the viability of a particular unit or formation.

The KFF Effectively doubles the lifespan of a huge chunk of your Kan Wall.

I don't think I need to say any more of that.

KFF is scary good. From what I've seen from ork players they always roll 5+ consistently, I've seen my friend roll 10 dice and get 8 that are above 5+ for that damn save. He doesn't even bother with warbosses anymore the KFF is that good.

the_ferrett wrote:can't think of a non vehicle scenario where a KFF would be worth it

Well there's your problem...

Why would anyone ever take a railgun? I mean seriously, they suck against conscripts! Overrated!

Well, I can quite honestly say that every time I've used KFF, it's at least paid for its points and I certainly can't say that about everything.

It's nice to be able to put a 5+ on your troops, especially since good armour saves are not something Orks get in abundance. As folks have said though, the upgrade really comes into its own when used with vehicles. I definitely see my vehicles staying alive and killy much longer with a KFF Mek around.

If you're doing a shooty army, then you're looking more toward SAG Meks (with the funnest weapon in the game). If you're doing bikers, you look at Wazdakka and a Warboss. If you're doing Deffwing, you need your Bosses and if you're doing a horde Wierdboyz become more appealing (though KFF Meks are still handy).

For the vehicle based army though, nothing increases your vehicles' survivability like a KFF Mek. Let's face it, we're talking about Orks here. Their vehicles either need to shoot for a few turns to hit stuff or get close to the enemy to hit them or dump their payload. Applying cover saves to your vehicles is an excellent way to make sure more of them are effective.

Gorkamorka wrote:

the_ferrett wrote:can't think of a non vehicle scenario where a KFF would be worth it

Well there's your problem...

Why would anyone ever take a railgun? I mean seriously, they suck against conscripts! Overrated!

I lol'd

Even in a foot list he can be very useful, I have been running one in my foot slogging list to much succsess, on note off grots, run him behind them giving them a save too, plus there isn't allwase cover between unit A and what unit A wants to hit. On top of that he can bring another klaw or power wepon to a boyz squad, for what 85pts. Also as far as hq slots go, in a foot slogging list take one cheap hq and put the rest into boyz.

Space_Potato wrote:

CT GAMER wrote: what else do you need that second HQ slot for a 2nd Warboss?!? Only gitz field two warbosses...

In my upcoming Orks list, I'll be using two warbosses. One on foot, and one on a bike. I like mah boyz ded Killy

So, in short, I'm a git

S_P

At least you admit it...

I'm rather confused at how people are saying that a KFF will provide a 4+ cover save for a vehicle. Wouldn't it be just a 5+? Am I missing something?

No. Vehicles count as obscured which confers a 4+ cover save.

thedarksaint wrote:I'm rather confused at how people are saying that a KFF will provide a 4+ cover save for a vehicle. Wouldn't it be just a 5+? Am I missing something?

Page 62, BRB wrote:If a special rule or a piece of wargear confers to a vehicle the ability of being obscured even if in the open, this [the ability of being obscured even in the open] is a 4+ cover save, unless specified otherwise in the Codex.

The KFF does not actually specify a save for the 'ability of being obscured even in the open' that it grants, the obscurement clause is completely separate from the normal 5+ save. Other rules, such as the smoke launcher rules on p62, show what language is necessary to specify a different save for obscurement.

That, combined with multiple semi-official GW sources (5th-ed launch sheet, WD battle reports by the codex writer, major tournament rulings, etc.) that use the 4+, mean that's how the vast majority of players play it.

I was just going to add that - some people are convinced the first sentence, which describes the 5+ save, *does* mean the save is 5+ - however I've been to very very few tournaments or other events that have ever ruled that way, and I dont recall ever meeting someone in person who thought it was a 5+. Of course as I dont play orks if I *did* meet an opponent who thought his KFF was only a 5+ and I said it wasnt, they are unlikely to complain

All the points have been made - even in a foot slogging list the KFF is crazy good, and another nob level PK isn ot to be sneezeda t!