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I played against a player today who: A. Didn't have a Rulebook (didn't know that fleeing units can still fire, has no clue about Morale checksk, or ramming vehicles), Codex (was constantly asking another Ork player about rules and wargear), or any kind of focus at all (he was fighting a Nids player later and when his Nob killed a Termaguant, he said "My Nob killed a Nid, he needs a bit on his base to show that.", and left his table to go sift through our FLGS' bitz box!).

B. Had some Khorne Bezerkers as Ork Boyz and Nobs, a Chaos Vindicator, Eldar Vyper (a really nicely painted one that he bought out of our used cabinet), and a Chimera chassis as looted wagons, and a piece of styrofoam with Ork stuff stuck into it as a Battlewagon. I really didn't want to be that guy, but at least make an attempt at making a cohesive looking army and RTFM! I made sure every model on my side of the table is GW and as WYSIWYG as possible and I get to play against this guy, C'mon!

I was studying the BRB weeks in advance (I was really rusty in this tourney), and this clown has a rough shod looking army, and no idea about his army. If he hadn't been so slow doing everyting, I could have used my Devil Dog's Melta Cannon to blow his battlewagon sky hi and probably take a good chunk of a 30 Nob strong squad with it!

The other two guys I went against were awesome, this dude was really bad, after the tourney was over I got to talking to the victors and they completely agreed that this guy shouldn't have been in this tourney. The 2nd Place finisher (Who ran DE) tabled him in 20 minutes!

My games were a little irksome - none of the players I played against had WYSIWYG armies, but the house was ok with it.

Ard Boyz rules are very specific that it ALL must be WYSIWYG. NO Proxies! I'd make it all come off the table.

Proxies shouldn't be allowed.

The rules are very specific about WYSIWYG.

Indeed.

I can understand a slight difference. Slight as in: my stormtrooper sergant that has a Bolter strapped to his chest, and he is holding his Plasma pistol out, I specifically pointed out to people that his PP wasn't even in play, they had no problem with it. It just makes me livid now that I finished poorly because of this guy.


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Dashofpepper wrote:My games were a little irksome - none of the players I played against had WYSIWYG armies, but the house was ok with it.

That sucks, I think we need a redo!

As long as 'ard boyz is done at independent stores there is not a single rule GW can enforce.. period

Store owners want people in their store and a lot dont care about what they bring as long as they spend money

If I felt the the other guy was trying to pull a fast one on me I certainly would call him on WYSIWYG. But if the guy is a goober I thank my lucky stars and work on pushing through enough turns to get me the win. This is the first round held at about a gazillion game stores, of course there will be noobs. Regionals gets slightly better, and finals are almost all veterans.

I've been doing events for quite a while and I'm pretty good at sussing out the level of competition and competence at a given tourney. You adjust your approach and you should do fine. Checking with the TO ahead of time on rules and tournament expectations helps as well. If you approach the TO and each opponent with fun but businesslike attitude you can head off a lot of potential weirdness and shenanigans.

Kirasu wrote:As long as 'ard boyz is done at independent stores there is not a single rule GW can enforce.. period

Short sighted and lazy Store owners want people in their store and a lot dont care about what they bring as long as they spend money. Not understanding that running a good tournament will bring in more money than catering to the guys who havy crappy proxy armies.

Fixed your quote. Sorry, I'm beligerent tonite. Drinking beer and modeling late with two mates. I sometimes have a low opinion of my peers in the gaming industry.)

Proxy models should be burnt and their owners lose an ear for the first offense. Make them play heroclix for the second. Send them off to law school the third time they try to get away with it.

We had this discussion at a local store. Alot of people wanted to run 2x 10 Sternguard with all Combis. These bits are obviously hard to come by. I said well no one ever mentions it when you are running these in other tournaments so it should be fine. I think if you describe in detail to your opponent what your army is and it is easy to see(ie a little spammy, not 15 units with all sorts of different stuff) it shouldn't be a problem. I used a Bike Command squad with SS, LClaw, Melta Gun. I don't even know if they make a Storm Shield for normal marines but I just used 4 bikers with spears from my friends collections and since they were uniform and easy to distinguish from the other bikers(apothecary, Khan, Chaplain) no one called shenanigans. I think it is always best to show your opponent what is in your list so they don't get hot later, same thing as discussing terrain. It's the easiest way to keep the game chill, at all costs you want to avoid the game becoming contentious even if it hurts your chances of winning because you have made your opponent aware of your capabilities. It's awesome to win, but I don't want to win if people are sour grapes and it was avoidable.


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GW doesn't make models for alot of their most interesting units and the wargear that makes alot of units playable is hard to come by. If they just offered sprues with the goods instead of making players who want to be WYSIWG buy one Space Marine Commander per Sternguard with Combi they want to field we wouldn't have righteous posters.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Ard Boyz rules are very specific that it ALL must be WYSIWYG. NO Proxies! I'd make it all come off the table.

^ This. I would have done the same. Pretty ridicolous. Really.

G

Kirasu wrote:As long as 'ard boyz is done at independent stores there is not a single rule GW can enforce.. period

Store owners want people in their store and a lot dont care about what they bring as long as they spend money

You're right. GW can't enforce it. But the statement doesn't end there.

If all people want to do at these events is run proxy armies and armies that use models from
other companies, then there's no incentive for GW to back this event with prize support. It's
in the store's best interests to enforce WYSIWYG.

This precisely why I am NOT playing in this years 'Ard Boyz. Half of each of my armies are not painted and only semi assembled. Its been a while since I played evena friendly game and I need to get more familier with the current rules.

mikhaila wrote:

Kirasu wrote:As long as 'ard boyz is done at independent stores there is not a single rule GW can enforce.. period

Short sighted and lazy Store owners want people in their store and a lot dont care about what they bring as long as they spend money. Not understanding that running a good tournament will bring in more money than catering to the guys who havy crappy proxy armies.

Fixed your quote. Sorry, I'm beligerent tonite. Drinking beer and modeling late with two mates. I sometimes have a low opinion of my peers in the gaming industry.)

Proxy models should be burnt and their owners lose an ear for the first offense. Make them play heroclix for the second. Send them off to law school the third time they try to get away with it.

any soda cans as drop pods stories from this year like you mentioned in the other thread?

to the OP, if you want to make this thread a bit more unique (we already have a 6 page wysiwig ard boyz thread on the front page), add a poll to the thread to see the actual numbers and how dakkites vote.

any soda cans as drop pods stories from this year like you mentioned in the other thread?

Nah, nothing interesting this year at prelims. Partly because all the players are local and know what would happen)

Now, on Jun 12th I run regionals, that always has the potential for major drama.

I don't mind 'counts as', like a IG player using grenade launchers as melta guns, or something like that, as long as ALL the grenade launchers in the army 'count as' melta.

Or perhaps someone kit bashed a HQ model, or using chaos marines 'counts as' space wolves or blood angels.

Also, our LFGS did not hold the 'must be X% citadel models' requirement as long as GW has not produced a model for it, like 'Nid Spore Pods or Space Wolf Thunder Cav.

Thanks for fixing my quote.. I agree with the additions! I think we'll finally be able to run high quality tournaments at my local store now that people understand why letting people run bad tournaments doesnt increase turn out!

Right now our tournaments basically have no one running them.. or judging them or really anything due to staff limitations

Making people play WYSIWYG is easy. I threatened to replace any non-WYSIWYG model with a Grot.

Didn't have any problems at my store!

Aramus wrote:Making people play WYSIWYG is easy. I threatened to replace any non-WYSIWYG model with a Grot.

Didn't have any problems at my store!

Love it! Any non-WYSIWYG model is instantly turned into a grot!!!

My store was mostly WYSIWYG... I would have left if it wasn't. Proxies are totally unacceptable at any tourney. There is no valid reason for them. There are lot of excuses and whines but none of them are valid.

nkelsch wrote:

Aramus wrote:Making people play WYSIWYG is easy. I threatened to replace any non-WYSIWYG model with a Grot.

Didn't have any problems at my store!

Love it! Any non-WYSIWYG model is instantly turned into a grot!!!

My store was mostly WYSIWYG... I would have left if it wasn't. Proxies are totally unacceptable at any tourney. There is no valid reason for them. There are lot of excuses and whines but none of them are valid.

Normally I'm not too strict on it, I encourage players to bring WYSIWYG models, but I understand that it's a pain sometime. I don't allow the soda can drop pod crap, or this Rhino is really a Whirlwind, but as far as weapons go, as long as it's not confusing, it's ok. But for 'ard Boyz, I've been telling the guys since we first started talking about it (around February or so) that it would HAVE to be WYSIWYG. I offered to help with any conversions needed, and ended up getting taken up on the offer a few times. So when the day of the tournament rolled around, everything went smoothly.

i know this thread is a couple of days (a week or so) old but..I had to play Kirasu yesterday at ard boys.. His entire army was proxy Blood angels as space wolves.. Logan Grimnar was a friggin Space hulk librarian. I spent alot of money to actually have a army that is what you see to the last drop of paint. - Personal attack removed - Im glad the 12 yr old n our group came in 2nd, he is a good lil guy and Deserved it. ......-sigh- but my rant is trailing from the thread topic. Just got a chcukle seeing you post in here about proxies, when your lil cute twilight marines were red space wolves hope to play you again next year, and next year i promise..i won't be as nice or unknowing of how you play.

For one off games at home proxies are ok. At a tournment? You need to have the correct models....

Counts as marines for maries I can deal with but It always hurts the person playing the proxies. Even if they go over them pregame it will never fail to slip their mind at some point. I got screwed when a carnifex counting as a "tervigon" was holding an objective when I had ignored him the whole game. Also had a Pepsi can covered in duc tape and nid bits for a spore. Made it real easy to slip that tiny spore in between my tanks...

My opinion goes for Ard Boyz and tournaments in general: proxies of any sort should not be allowed.
Edit: I mean proxies of the "this space marine is a gaunt" sort. If you did some super cool conversion to make alien-themed tyranids, I'm okay with that as long as its not confusing.

In friendly gaming, I'm fine with "my heavy bolters are lascannons, im still trying to get the bits". I understand updating armies takes time and you're working on it.

However, Ardboyz and tournies in general are the events you're preparing for, if you can't be troubled to finish your army like everyone else, you should be forced to play with what you have. No proxy, no counts as. If something broke off on the way over to the event, I understand. But large-scale proxies of weapons or rhino's as whirlwinds is total crap. If you wanted that model, then buy that model like everyone else. I also think TO's do themselves and their shops a disservice by allowing it. Tournaments are a motivating force for players to buy new models, after all, everyone wants to buy/play the new ish-list. Allowing people to just proxy an entire ARMY as the new-ish totally defeats the purpose, and is incredibly confusing.

For my personal example, at ard boyz yesterday, there was a guy proxying his chaos army as a "counts as" spacewolves. I understand wanting to play a different army, I do, but to avoid utter confusion, wrong models, and just an obnoxious experience, if you want the new army you need to purchase it. He's played this army as the CSM's that they are for years btw, its not like he bought CSM to build into a converted 13th company.

As an opponent, I have no idea whats going on in said army when EVERY model is a proxy. If you want to play with the new army, then buy it. If not, bring what you've got and be proud of it.

Well if i am correct. I re read the rules and my buddy whom is pretty damn good with the rules told me flat out. No that Librarian Space hulk fig should of never been allowed in the game as it is not Logan Grimnar. -shrugs- my own fault for not double checking. And also, if it was a straight up gakky painted space wolf army with the actual Logan i wouldn't of said a thing as i got my ass handed to me. - personal attack removed -

I wouldn't really care for 'Ard Boyz locals. Regionals is where it should be getting strict.

So what is the opinion of proxies for the reason of:
Dropped on site
Broke in transit
Or the least wanted: Unsupervised game store kiddy

Reasonable to use proxies for?
What if you saw the model break?

Yep thats why I clarified that in my post VikingScott. A day-of breakage, whether its the owners fault or not, is an acceptable reason for a suitable proxy to be used, at least IMO, if no glue is available (or its going to need more work than glue).

But I won't be buying the excuse of "I dropped my entire space wolves army and every model broke...but luckily I had my CSM that i'll be proxying as SW's today."

Ah sorry.
missed that bit.