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Howdy there Dakka, I've got a few questions for all you WoC players.

So I picked up a WoC Battleforce last December, and made it a pure Nurgle force. Well, time has a way with me, and they eventually started to collect dust. With my friend picking up Dark Elves, however, I decided to go back to my beloved spiky warriors. This time however, it's going for an undivided theme.

So, my question is, how exactly should I expand? I mean, besides the mandatory hero/sorcerer, which I've already picked up, it seems my army is quite one-dimensional. I was thinking of a unit of Chosen and either a Giant or two Spawn. And while I'm at it, another unit of Knights would probably be beneficial.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

To expand your force, I would look into picking up another unit of warriors, as these guys are going to carry your army through the battle. Maybe some marauder horsemen? Perfect for harassing skirmishing and war machine crews, which is what WoC seem to struggle with. You will definatly want a hard hitter, personally i chose the shaggoth, but many like the giant, its all about what role you want it to play. Hope this was of some use?

Jack

I love hounds... they are great warhamchine hunters I also use horsemen and loads of sorcs. Give me a point value and I can assist better

It's all good. If anything, I need something to draw fire away from my Warriors, and it seems that either a Giant or Shaggoth will do fine. However, unless I'm mistaken the Giant is cheaper, so I think I'll end up picking up one of those.

Definitely another unit of Warriors, for sure.

Shaggoth is terrible. Giant outclasses it and is lots cheaper.

Marauder horsemen, honestly, I couldn't see any W.o.C list that couldn't benefit (or even need) two units of 5 marauder horsemen w/ L.A, M.o.S, and Throwing Axes.

Hounds to shield your warriors. Its a must. 10 of them (one box) should be fine.

Two units of knights is pretty standard. I actually prefer one unit of knights and two chariots, but that's me.

Warriors are very good, but extremely slow. 4" move, 8" march.

Cryonicleech wrote:It's all good. If anything, I need something to draw fire away from my Warriors, and it seems that either a Giant or Shaggoth will do fine. However, unless I'm mistaken the Giant is cheaper, so I think I'll end up picking up one of those.

Karon wrote:Shaggoth is terrible. Giant outclasses it and is lots cheaper.

The shaggy is overpriced, there's no arguing that. However in 8th I'm thinking he starts to get a bit competitive with the giant. Here are some advantages that occur to me:

+ Better model (and only slightly more expensive)
+ Armor save vital against the upswing in archers and bow weapons
+ Faster move, so again able to survive shooting because taking less
+ Faster charge, as M7+ models may be rolling 3D6, pick the highest 2 for their charge reach (17" charge range ain't bad for a big dude)
+ Stomp adds +D6 S6 WS6 attaks (vs giant's +D6 S6 WS3)
+ Vaguely more reliable for killing things than the giant's random attaks

But the downsides are still obvious:

- Cannon / bolter fodder, which could care less about armor
- Sexy model is not too friendly to converting to ahw, the cheaper and superior IMO choice
- Direct attak is only vaguely reliable, WS6 means still missing a lot (unless 8th addresses this)
- Not stubborn 10
- No more flanking with a single big monster makes breaking ranks no longer possible with all that speed
- Still overpriced, compared to any other big rare monster

And some more probably too. My point is that the shaggy is going to be more functional soon, but still overpriced

- Salvage

I see what your saying, and I agree with pretty much all your points. But you forgot the chance that the enemy has some kind of lightning type weapon (including the Skaven Warp-Lightning Cannon, or just regular Warp Lightning spell) makes it frenzied, and able to be baited by fliers or fast cav very sadly.

Honestly, its too remote of a chance to count against it, but it still has to be kept in mind with all the Skaven Rage ATM w/ the Doomwheel and such.

Karon wrote:I see what your saying, and I agree with pretty much all your points. But you forgot the chance that the enemy has some kind of lightning type weapon (including the Skaven Warp-Lightning Cannon, or just regular Warp Lightning spell) makes it frenzied, and able to be baited by fliers or fast cav very sadly.

Honestly, its too remote of a chance to count against it, but it still has to be kept in mind with all the Skaven Rage ATM w/ the Doomwheel and such.

I would take that in a heartbeat. More attaks = less fluffing = actually killing something. Keep in mind that he's a large target, so he can use his free pivot to dodge around ill-placed baiters / redirecters and nab tasty things with his 6-7 attaks.

Also, frenzy may be able to be 'quelled' with a LD check in 8th. On LD9, not so bad. (Downside is you have to charge the nearest if failed, unlike now.)

- Salvage

Hmm, some good points. However, I was wondering if maybe Spawn were a good option. Relatively cheap for a pair, Unbreakable, and somewhat-good in combat, I'd think.

Cryonicleech wrote:Hmm, some good points. However, I was wondering if maybe Spawn were a good option. Relatively cheap for a pair, Unbreakable, and somewhat-good in combat, I'd think.

If you have the extra points, stubborn units get annoying quick.

Yeah. A properly placed spawn or two can do a lot of great things to make up for the things a WOC army lacks.

They act as great anvils versus str 3 units and in the current edition, tend to hold units down all game. Once they start getting additional attacks for more ranks, they may not be as good, but they are still decent for the job they do.

Another great use is to help lock down and chase off any units that can quickly get into the rear of your units allowing you to get out of march-block range much more quickly when they are rear harassing you. They have so many uses, They are just about manditory in any competitive WOC list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to the Shaggoth vs Giant argument.

A frenzied Shaggoth becomes a nuisance. But that's why every great army has Light Cav. In this case, they can go from flank harassers, to frenzy mitigation in a snap.

Giants destroy big things. But they can really suffer against units, and go down to goblin bowfire.

Shaggoths don't do as well against big things. But they wreck units if they can get into the flank, and even in the front they are far more likely to get the job done and keep it done as the ranks slowly melt away.

Both are equally susceptable to cannon fire, but everything is. The only advantage is that Giants are cheaper here.

That having been said, the Shaggoth will survive far longer against any plinkety type shooting because of the armor save.

The ultimate question is: Are you willing to spend more points overall for the Shaggoth to have a more surivable unit against low str shooting overall and more dependable when kicking units in the head.

Play what you like, and don't design your army around either.

I use two spawn in every game under 2k... They are invaluable to protect yourslow blocks from the trickeries of misdirection/march blocking

Kiwi also showed me they can be effective at preventing flyers from getting free reign in the backfield. A single spawn sets up a good size "risky zone" for flyers who want to land nearby. I don't want to set up the gyro within 9" or so, and that's a pretty big area.

RZ