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I thought I should share some of my observations and experiences with the rest of the Hive Mind.

Here's my list:
The Swarmlord
2 Tyrant Guard (Lash Whips)

3 Hive Guard
3 Zoanthropes w/Mycetic Spore
8 Ymgarl

15 Genestealers w/Toxin Sacs
14 Genestealers w/Toxin Sacs
10 Spinegaunts
10 Termagants
Tervigon w/Cluster Spines, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, and Catalyst
Tervigon w/Cluster Spines, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, and Catalyst

Tyrannofex w/Cluster Spines, Beetles, and Rupture Cannon
Tyrannofex w/Cluster Spines, Beetles, and Rupture Cannon

I've been running variations on this list since the codex came out, searching for a way to use my genestealers. The current incarnation uses the Tervigons to keep Catalyst on a unit for the early turns of the game, while infiltrating one unit across the front of my deployment zone; most of the time, there is adequate cover from terrain to ensure a cover save, given how wide you can stretch 15 genestealers. The second unit either does the same thing, or else outflanks.

For 'Ard Boyz, the Swarmlord replaced a Prime, and I put together enough termagants to allow for a second Tervigon.

Mission 1:

Blood Angels
Librarian (with stuff)
Librarian Furioso (Blood Lance & something that didn't come into play)
Librarian Furioso (2 powers that didn't come into play)

6 angry red marines in a Land Raider Redeemer
6 angry red marines in a Land Raider Redeemer
5 angry red marines in a Land Raider Crusader
5 angry red marines in a Land Raider Crusader
5 angry red marines in a Land Raider (Godhammer)

Baal Predator w/assault cannons
Baal Predator w/assault cannons

I made him go first, and for some reason, my opponent gave me the deployment zone with a triangle of objectives in it. The game largely involved using Tyrannofexen to crack open Land Raiders, as the Zoanthropes were dead by my turn 2, taking a single Baal with them. One of his Librarian Dreads got tied down from turn 2 onward by 14 outflanking stealers (they finished glancing it to death on turn 6), while the other faced death-by-Hive-Guard when he started getting a little too close. The game ended with a single unit of stealers claiming the triangle of objectives, a Tervigon claiming the objective in the middle of the board (after the Swarmlord and both T-fexen killed the former occupants), and a unit of spawned 'gants contesting his last Land Raider/Assault squad, who were sitting on the 5th objective.

23 pt massacre to me; I missed the bonus point for killing the most expensive enemy unit, as it was randomly determined to be the Godhammer which survived (same cost as the Crusaders, as he equipped them).

MVPs: The Tyrannofexen. They were blasting open Land Raiders left, right, and center, and assaulting them if that proved necessary.

Mission 2:

Blood Angels
Mephison
Astorath
Chaplain in Termie armor

7 angry termies in a Land Raider Crusader
8 angry termies on foot*

10 angry jump pack marines
10 angry jump pack marines
10 angry jump pack marines

Angry Vindcator
Angry Vindcator

He rolled poorly for the Thirst, in spite of Astorath.

*My opponent was a little angry, too - he had lent a Land Raider and some assault termies to a friend, and couldn't recover them in time for the tournament, leading to the large squad on foot.

Mephiston wanted no part of The Swarmlord, and so ran off to fight 15 FNP'd, poisoned genestealers, taking an assault squad with him. After the first round of combat, there were no more assault marines, Mephiston had taken a wound, and there were still 9 genestealers. Mephiston would eventually finish himself off, trying to force weapon down a Tervigon who charged in; one genestealer was still alive. He did, however, lend a lot of Psychic Hood defense. The rest of the game turned into a giant scrum which (over time) involved the other 'stealer unit, a T-fex, the Swarmlord, the Ymgarl, 4 Termagant units, 2 Assault Squads, both Termie units, Astorath, and the Chaplain. When the dust settled, there weren't any blood angels left (and a T-fex got to paint another little Land Raider profile on its shell).

24 pt massacre to me.

MVPs: The Genestealers, for locking down Mephiston; the Swarmlord, for instant-killing Astorath and the Chaplain, plus slaying a silly number of Blood Angels in general.

Mission 3:
CSM, by Sazzlefrats
Lash Prince
Lash Prince

5 chosen (3 melta, 2 flamer) in an outflanking rhino
5 chosen (3 melta, 2 flamer) with a rhino

9 Plague Marines w/Pfist and meltaguns with a rhino
10 CSM w/Lascannon & plasma gun
10 CSM w/Lascannon & plasma gun
10 CSM w/dual flamers, combi-melta and Pfist with a rhino

3 Oblits
3 Oblits
3 Oblits

I've probably played more games against Sazzlefrats, using variations on his CSM, than any other opponent I've ever faced. I had an unpleasant half-hour at lunch, when I thought I'd have to face him in round 2, but a Mech'dar player had also obtained a Massacre+4 in round 1, and spared me the pain. This was the best possible mission for me - I was 4 BP up on him, and 15 BP up on the person currently in 3rd; a Draw would be enough to lock down first place.

He won first turn. He kept all his rhinos in reserve, and only one Chosen unit to outflank, and proceeded to build a little fort of CSMs around his daemon princes; he's seen my Ymgarl before. I only deployed the Swarmlord, his Guard, and a single screening termagant squad, WAY over in a cover - out of range of one lascannon, and (hopefully) soon to be out of LoS of the rest, as I moved them up behind a building along the short board edge. Much of my army arrived on turn 2; the Ymgarl leaped out of building, took advantage of a gap in his box-of-marines, and killed a Daemon Prince. Turn 3, the Ymgarl died, and one unit of Stealers got lashed into a little cluster, which got them wiped by plasma cannon fire. Then my Zoanthropes landed, and blew up a rhino, before dying on turn 4; the second 'stealer squad ate a CSM squad that turn, too. Turn 5, he got a little desperate - my Hive Guard had range to his second daemon prince and had done 2 wounds on turn 4, so he brought the Prince forward, lashed the Hive Guard, assaulted them...and got stuck after only killing 1. The Prince died in my turn 5, to an assault by freshly-spawned termagants. He did kill off the Swarmlord in his turn 6, aided by a self-inflicted Perils wound, as well as finishing the Hive Guard. I had an opportunity for 2 more KPs in my turn 6, but didn't bother - I wasn't going to get a Major victory, and didn't need one.

Final tallies:
Me: 2 dead Daemon Princes, 1 dead rhino, 1 dead CSM squad: 10 KPs
Him: 1 dead Swarmlord, 1 dead Tyrannofex, dead Hive Guard Squad, dead Ymgarl, 2 dead Genestealer squads, dead Zoanthropes, dead Mycetic Spore: 9 KPs

Minor win to me, +15 BPs (more than 3k VPs all day, scoring unit in his deployment zone)

MVPs: Anything that traded 1 or 2 KPs, in order to get 3: the Ymgarl, the Zoanthropes, and the Hive Guard.

Overall: 62 BPs, and first place. Second had 56 BPs with horde orks. Third ended up with Sazzlefrats at 52 BPs, with a 2-way tie for 4th at 51, and 6th having 50.

I snagged 2 boxes of Gargoyles for my prize; I'm considering changing up the list a bit:
The Swarmlord
1 Tyrant Guard (Lash Whips) -1 Tyrant Guard

3 Hive Guard
3 Zoanthropes w/Mycetic Spore
7 Ymgarl -1 Ymgarl

18 Genestealers w/Toxin Sacs +3 Genestealers
8 Genestealers w/Toxin Sacs -6 Genestealers
10 Termagants
10 Termagants -10 Spinegaunts, +10 Termagants
Tervigon w/Cluster Spines, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, and Catalyst
Tervigon w/Cluster Spines, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, and Catalyst

20 Gargoyles w/Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs +20 Gargoyles

Tyrannofex w/Cluster Spines, Beetles, and Rupture Cannon
Tyrannofex w/Cluster Spines, Beetles, and Rupture Cannon

One fewer Tyrant Guard is a little riskier for the Swarmlord, but it ups the majority WS in the unit to 9 (under the INAT interpretation of Tyrant Guard, i.e., retinue). The smaller 'stealer unit becomes an almost-always outflanker, but I pick up 20 fast-moving gargoyles. The Swarmlord's 18" synapse bubble helps keep them in line, and giving them Preferred Enemy makes them downright nasty on the charge.

Congrats, Janthkin.

I was thinking about bringing Nids myself, but finally settled on my Ragnar+Rune-Priest-spam Space Wolves. I was looking to play against some Nids or Orks but I guess it wasn't meant to be. I did, however, go up against Tau with 2x3 broadsides. Wasn't a very nice game for him as I drop podded 2 Jaws Rune Priests right next to them on turn 1.

You've got a very interesting list. I'd like to play against you sometimes. Maybe the next time we meet at GK.

Wow. So much for the folks who say 'Nids don't have an answer to LR Spam.

Great job!

pretre wrote:Wow. So much for the folks who say 'Nids don't have an answer to LR Spam.

Great job!

true fella

i play SM's and have a largely mech force with a lot of termies and ill tell you now the LR is not invincible to a compotent Nid player
as for Mcphisting i really think he's overrated personally

jy2 wrote:Congrats, Janthkin.

I was thinking about bringing Nids myself, but finally settled on my Ragnar+Rune-Priest-spam Space Wolves. I was looking to play against some Nids or Orks but I guess it wasn't meant to be. I did, however, go up against Tau with 2x3 broadsides. Wasn't a very nice game for him as I drop podded 2 Jaws Rune Priests right next to them on turn 1.

You've got a very interesting list. I'd like to play against you sometimes. Maybe the next time we meet at GK.

I was pleased to avoid your Rune Priest collection, as Jaws is just too painful for my 900+ pts of Initiative 1 MCs. I have to be prepared for it, and I had some deployment options in mind specifically for podding priests, but it was better not to have to use them.

Actually, the MCs held up pretty well all day - I lost one Tervigon mission 1, none in mission 2, and 1 T-fex and the Swarmlord in mission 3. People don't like shooting at T-fexes; it lacks the instant-gratification of blowing up a vehicle, and there are generally more pressing issues.

We should definitely get a game in; now that I'm safely past the prelims, I'm curious to see if my sneaky deployment plans would have worked.

Congrats and thanks for sharing the batreps, they are informative. I was curious to see what you ran and how since I know you are also trying to make stealers work. My attempt at stealer heavy nids failed me on games 2 and 3, or I should say I failed them (made a number of mistakes).

I will say that I used gargoyles for the first time and they worked quite well. With swarmlord they should be even better. Definitely like the look of your new list.

Thanks for the battle reports. I haven't tried larger 'stealer broods yet, but I've been wondering if that's the way to go, at least for those broods not outflanking.

What are your thoughts on your Zoeys? I've really cooled on them lately, although I seem to wax and wane on a lot of things. I really need to start giving the Swarmlord a try. Seems like he solves a lot of problems. I've just been busy tinkering with other things.

Wish I coulda done 'Ard Boyz this year, but alas, I was painfully short on "good husband points" to pay for the Saturday off during a very busy month.

winterman wrote:Congrats and thanks for sharing the batreps, they are informative. I was curious to see what you ran and how since I know you are also trying to make stealers work. My attempt at stealer heavy nids failed me on games 2 and 3, or I should say I failed them (made a number of mistakes).

I will say that I used gargoyles for the first time and they worked quite well. With swarmlord they should be even better. Definitely like the look of your new list.

I don't think I can claim "stealer heavy" any more; even counting the Ymgarl as stealers, the new list is down to less than 25% stealers. :( But I do like what the math has to say about preferred-enemy Gargoyles, and I really like their board presence/threat radius.

gorgon wrote:Thanks for the battle reports. I haven't tried larger 'stealer broods yet, but I've been wondering if that's the way to go, at least for those broods not outflanking.

What are your thoughts on your Zoeys? I've really cooled on them lately, although I seem to wax and wane on a lot of things. I really need to start giving the Swarmlord a try. Seems like he solves a lot of problems. I've just been busy tinkering with other things.

I'll be curious to see how the one large brood, one small brood combination works out. I didn't like 6-man units, but 8 should be just enough punch against things that don't have defensive grenades.

Most of the time, I like my Zoanthropes. Often, they'll skip the pod - either I want their shots earlier in the game (against fast-advancing armor, like Battlewagons or Land Raiders), or I want their synapse/Shadow in the Warp to anchor a flank. But for times when a tank just HAS to die, they're pretty useful. I don't think I'd like to rely on them for all my S10 shooting, though. And occasionally, the other guy will hit a winning streak with his psychic hood.

The Swarmlord is a beast, but you pay for the privilege; even with just a single Guard, he's tying up 345 pts. His best value is the force-multiplier aspect - 18" synapse allows for a broader frontage, and Preferred Enemy for stealers or poisoned/FC gaunts or angry T-fexes can be game-altering. That he's the nastiest HTH beast in the game is just icing. But I don't know that I can fit him into anything smaller than a 2500 pt game, at least not without giving up something that I may want more.

Yeah, it makes sense that Zoeys work better in their role next to Tyrannofexes since they don't have to bear all the S10 duty. Dunno if that's synergy exactly, but it's a better fit for Zoeys given their unreliability. I actually don't think I've used both in an army yet, so that's another thing to play around with.

Regarding the Swarmlord, Swarm Leader just seems so much more useful than Old Adversary. Being able to throw PE at 18" compared to having to walk it into range is no contest even if OA has the benefit of being a bubble. It also just occurred to me that Swarm Leader could also be a way to finally get "adrenal glands" on Ravs in the right situation.

Janthkin wrote:
Mephiston wanted no part of The Swarmlord, and so ran off to fight 15 FNP'd, poisoned genestealers, taking an assault squad with him.

This confuses me. Silly on his part for avoiding the Swarmlord instead of taking him head on. Mephy goes first and if he wounds once and makes the test (granted it's on 3d6, but still) Swarmlord dies. Jumping into assault with the genestealers is just asking for death, especially at that number of them.

Swarmlord would have eaten him for breakfast. The tyrant guard would have made him strike at I1 and 1 wound from the Swarmlord would have ID'ed him.

Lukus83 wrote:Swarmlord would have eaten him for breakfast. The tyrant guard would have made him strike at I1 and 1 wound from the Swarmlord would have ID'ed him.

This. Also, our store uses the INAT, so the Swarmlord was tucked safely away in (effectively) a Retinue.

Lash whips aside, the math isn't really is Mephie's favor - hit on 4's, wounds on 4's (or 2's if he can spare the psychic power and gets it off through Shadows), 4+ Invulnerable on the Swarmlord, and 4+ to activate the Force Weapon. Somewhere between 1/16 and 5/56 per attack (depending on the S10 power).

The Swarmlord hits on 3's, and kills him on a single 4+.

Silly me, I forgot about the Tyrant Guards.

Well done Janthkin! It'll be interesting to see how well the Tyranids end up doing. I'm just afraid the competition hasn't been that great so far.

Lash whips aside, the math isn't really is Mephie's favor

The Blood Angels can simply shoot the Swarmlord off the board and then let Mephiston go to town with a bunch of AM and Priests. If they can't, it means they brought the wrong army list.

Congratulations.

Your army list is very similar to mine, although I only have one each of T-fex and Tervigion as I play lower point games.

Therion wrote:Well done Janthkin! It'll be interesting to see how well the Tyranids end up doing. I'm just afraid the competition hasn't been that great so far.

Thanks. I'd agree with you - only the CSM list was anything close to optimal (for CSM), and neither BA player had much practice with their army or against Tyranids. It gets much harder from here.

Lash whips aside, the math isn't really is Mephie's favor

The Blood Angels can simply shoot the Swarmlord off the board and then let Mephiston go to town with a bunch of AM and Priests. If they can't, it means they brought the wrong army list.

Honestly, I'm not sure Mephiston belongs in the most optimized BA lists.

Lyracian wrote:Congratulations.

Your army list is very similar to mine, although I only have one each of T-fex and Tervigion as I play lower point games.

After Ard Boyz ends, I'll need to revisit my 1850 list, and see what I can drop. The Swarmlord & one Tervigon are recent additions; I'm going to try to hold onto that second Tervie (in the HQ slot, probably), as the second Catalyst can be crucial, and redundancy in 'gant production is nice, too.

Honestly, I'm not sure Mephiston belongs in the most optimized BA lists.

Sure he does. I'd argue he's much more points efficient than the Swarmlord is. The thing is, if Mephiston was available as a 0-1 HS choice he wouldn't belong to the optimised lists, but the BA HQ choices are all quite bad and the 100 points dumped into a naked Librarian is nearly completely wasted. An extra 150 points makes the portable psychic hood a close combat monster and a threat that has to be dealt with. 12+ lascannons and 12+ tl plasma gun shots and some assault cannons and autocannons in the mix take care of the Swarmlord. The Nids have no such option against their opponents.

It gets much harder from here.

Yeah I sure hope so because otherwise the name of the tournament doesn't really fit it. Most of the lists I've seen from the Ard Boyz have been outright terrible. I'm still glad the local Dakka Nid people are doing well with their armies. It should be an uphill battle if your opponents played good armies, so you just have to play better than them

Therion wrote:

Honestly, I'm not sure Mephiston belongs in the most optimized BA lists.

Sure he does. I'd argue he's much more points efficient than the Swarmlord is. The thing is, if Mephiston was available as a 0-1 HS choice he wouldn't belong to the optimised lists, but the BA HQ choices are all quite bad and the 100 points dumped into a naked Librarian is nearly completely wasted. An extra 150 points makes the portable psychic hood a close combat monster and a threat that has to be dealt with. 12+ lascannons and 12+ tl plasma gun shots and some assault cannons and autocannons in the mix take care of the Swarmlord. The Nids have no such option against their opponents.

Oh, the Swarmlord doesn't belong in an optimized list, either. He's got a force-multiplier aspect that makes me prefer him to a normal Tyrant (what Preferred Enemy does to gargoyles is just nuts), but "better" is not the same as "good."

But then, I'm not entirely sure what does go into an "optimized" Tyranid list. Seen any in the European theater that have been interesting and effective? I am enjoying playing with them, which is why my IG are probably going to stay in their box for now.

But then, I'm not entirely sure what does go into an "optimized" Tyranid list. Seen any in the European theater that have been interesting and effective?

I don't think anyone knows that. The best attempt at building an optimised Tyranid list that I've seen is just trying to maximise the amount of T6 wounds while having all of the required guns to stay flexible. Something like 33% shooting and 66% assault is a mix that I'd go for with Tyranids.

Nicely done, Janthkin! Way to win it with the Bugs.