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 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Just had an email from Mierce, 55% off everything, but only if you pay via Paypal.

I just read the small print, they ask that you pay them as friends and family "so that you pay the fees". This voids all of your protection as a buyer. Am I wrong to be a bit worried by this?

Why have Paypal as a payment option, then instruct you to pay using the friends and family option? At best it seems very amateurish, at worse...I don't know.

Do they ask or require you to pay as "family and friends"? It according to the rules does void your protection as a buyer but I've seen multiple people on bartertown and even here in the swap shop get their money back when they show the proof/email/communication that it was a purchase and not a "gift". That's not by any means a guarantee though and my info is admittedly a couple years old since I haven't traded much since getting out of regular 40k play. Regardless, that's a yellow flag at the bare minimum for a company that is notorious for being years late with their crowdfunding rewards where you also technically have no protection. At least with paypal and other immediate payments, people in the thread here report that they get their product typically in a timely fashion likely because of the looming threat of a timely forced refund if they don't. From a seller perspective, that's an easy way to get your account locked and funds frozen as well if they find out you're repeatedly trying to not give paypal its cut.

Well, paypal does get its cut - just from the buyer, not the seller.

I think Paypal might have just decided not to want to deal with Mierce as a pro customer after the Maelstrom bankruptcy - they can be a bit, ahem, heavy handed and untransparent about these things?

Either way, I've paid for four orders this way; three were shipped just fine and the fourth was a couple days ago, so I'll cut them some slack on not having shipped yet

I would point out that while specific sculpts are indeed sometimes extremely delayed, the 'general purpose' store credit you get often gets spent on other things in the meantime anyway.
...Yeah that's not a perfect excuse by any means but for most of the customer base the stuff that finally got sculpted from KS 7 got paid for with the funds they put in at, like, KS 9 or 10. Mierce usually doesn't close the sale at KS pricing until the model is relatively close to release (in fairness, that *is* for individual models and units; bundles etc. can often disappear a good bit earlier).

It's worked pretty well for the core customer base but with a lot of the digital sculpting being done by more regular contractors now, I think the general suggestion has been that those years-long stragglers will be less of a thing going forward.

As always, we'll see - but as pointed out a couple posts above, folks have been dooming over Mierce for over a decade now and every time so far, it's worked out fine for the actual customers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 Bolognesus wrote:
Well, paypal does get its cut - just from the buyer, not the seller.

I think Paypal might have just decided not to want to deal with Mierce as a pro customer after the Maelstrom bankruptcy - they can be a bit, ahem, heavy handed and untransparent about these things?

Either way, I've paid for four orders this way; three were shipped just fine and the fourth was a couple days ago, so I'll cut them some slack on not having shipped yet

I didn't know that and it's a change from the past when I last used it (years ago) so I appreciate the info. I'm glad you've had luck with the orders (no sarcasm intended) but that's entirely at their discretion obviously (at the cost of their remaining creditibility/reputation if they don't deliver) so I hope that it continues.

 warboss wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Well, paypal does get its cut - just from the buyer, not the seller.

I think Paypal might have just decided not to want to deal with Mierce as a pro customer after the Maelstrom bankruptcy - they can be a bit, ahem, heavy handed and untransparent about these things?

Either way, I've paid for four orders this way; three were shipped just fine and the fourth was a couple days ago, so I'll cut them some slack on not having shipped yet

I didn't know that and it's a change from the past when I last used it (years ago) so I appreciate the info. I'm glad you've had luck with the orders (no sarcasm intended) but that's entirely at their discretion obviously (at the cost of their remaining creditibility/reputation if they don't deliver) so I hope that it continues.

...Yes, but again, that's been the case for a decade now, during which they've been pretty consistently solid, not just for me.
Honestly I suspect almost every small player in this industry is one or two setbacks away from insolvency but the doom&gloom these guys have been getting for ten years solid is wearing a bit thin. Not putting that all on you, just putting it out there.

 Bolognesus wrote:


...Yes, but again, that's been the case for a decade now, during which they've been pretty consistently solid, not just for me.
Honestly I suspect almost every small player in this industry is one or two setbacks away from insolvency but the doom&gloom these guys have been getting for ten years solid is wearing a bit thin. Not putting that all on you, just putting it out there.

Yes, and Newwave was a reliable company that for years fulfilled my orders without issue until the day they stopped doing so for the gaming community and to an extent the same was true with Maelstrom. Admittedly those are first and foremost stores and not (at the time) manufacturers but it's foolish to completely ignore the well known warning signs just because of past stellar performance. You're not completely ignoring it but rather just weighting them differently which is reasonable so no issues from me but it's telling that half the time this thread is updated that it's bad news for the customers. If anything, them surviving and trying to fulfill orders shows good intentions despite the bad luck, health problems, and potentially poor business decisions. Regardless I've said my peace for now until the next seemingly innevitable setback is posted in thread.

So... hmm, lots to unpack again!

Just had an email from Mierce, 55% off everything, but only if you pay via Paypal.

Was posted two days after the launch of there new kickstarter (yeah, everyone seems to have missed that)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mierceminiatures/darklands-demons-of-infernus-stl/description

There is no reason any company should be asking for friends and family payments. Period. Especially one like Mierce given the whole Maelstrom debacle, and if there's an issue I imagine Paypal would part ways with them for good (it might even be against their terms of service.

Then there's this whole 'Grey Wulf' resin...

Its probably all fine but... normal companies don't continuously be weird.

Grey Wulf is a brand name for 3D-printed by them, and shipped to you.

It's simply cheaper than traditional casting, which is inherently very labor-intensive.

They've been especially clear about that in KS updates, so people don't get surprised by (and possibly react badly to) getting printed instead of cast models shipped to them.

As for being weird, they're not the only ones experimenting with printed, instead of cast, products - but you do want to be fairly loud about it up front exactly to avoid disappointed customers.

I know that Paypal refused to let Mierce use them when the company was first set up, supposedly because of the amount of chargebacks they had to deal with when Maelstrom collapsed IIRC.

It was news to me when I heard that Mierce were finally taking paypal as payment. It's still not one of the options when you go to pay on the Mierce website.

Reading between the lines, maybe they are still banned from Paypal but have found some kind of workaround, and it involves taking Paypal payment via a third party. It might explain the Friends and Family thing.

Anyway, I have no evidence for any of this, just thinking out loud really, feel free to shoot me down.

Grey Wulf is a brand name for 3D-printed by them, and shipped to you.

But... thats not how there explaining it. Its an interesting bit of language. To quote:

"all of our future releases will be produced in a new, flexible, ultra-tough, extremely highly quality print resin we have dubbed ‘Grey Wulf’"

So the problem for me is that there saying all this, and combining it with a load of fluff about how its 'unlike some print resins' which... ugh. Also, one of those claims is that its environmentally friendly - which is just all wrong given the waste by-products of 3d printing.

Its a bit like when 'Warlord resin' came out - which was Siocast... they just wanted to put there own brand and spin on it. That's fine I guess... they highlighted different benefits (being lighter then metal was a good one for historical wargamers!)

They've been especially clear about that in KS updates, so people don't get surprised by (and possibly react badly to) getting printed instead of cast models shipped to them.

Yes but not on the point above. What resin is it there using exactly.

As for being weird, they're not the only ones experimenting with printed, instead of cast, products - but you do want to be fairly loud about it up front exactly to avoid disappointed customers.

Absolutely, but Mierce doesn't have a stellar history or track record, and it needs to be more transparent with things like this, especially given the random Kickstarter, PayPal friends and family... even this start command thing they've got advertised on starter hosts 2 just reads really badly.

Normal companies - even in the whacky world of miniature wargaming - don't tend to have multiple strands of weirdness happening at the same time.

You... realise that resin casting isn't entirely environmentally neutral either, right? the casting gates alone probably waste as much as, or more than, printing supports - and once you have your printing process dialed in well chances are misprints will be much more rare than miscasts.

UV-sensitive resins aren't great, environmentally, to manufacture - but as far as I understand really not that different from regular polyurethane resins used for casting.

As for resilience, it's not hard nowadays to find printing resins that are far tougher and less brittle than anything I've bought in cast resin.

I'm all for a wait and see approach, see how this stuff works out for the first batch of customers that have ordered printed models - some of the bits on the werewulfs, spears but especially the skeleton hanging off of the banner, are quite delicate so if it turns out to be disappointingly brittle we'll hear pretty soon.

As for 'not a stellar history or track record'... you are going back a decade there, at this point. Honestly curious if you have examples of customer issues since the actual Mierce days that haven't been resolved well; I'm honestly not aware of much, if anything beyond some disappointment on timelines (which is balanced out by a fairly flexible array of options on what to order and when, as far as KS models go)...


edit: accidentally hit submit early.

You... realise that resin casting isn't entirely environmentally neutral either, right?

Yes (first-hand experience), but thats not how its being presented here - the suggestion being it's environmentally friendly which it isn't. It might be better than hand casting from one perspective, but could be substantially worse from another.

As for resilience, it's not hard nowadays to find printing resins that are far tougher and less brittle than anything I've bought in cast resin.

Absolutely, and having had my own resin printers for the last few years I completely agree... but again, this is marketing and language. Saying its a super duper new thing, when its probably a mix of a few known brand resins isn't great, and I'm not sure why there doing it. Its like when Mantic claimed they were using a super plastic resin, and it turned out to be the same stuff Sedition Wars used. I don't understand why wargaming companies can't be - to a degree - straight forward with the materials they use.

As for 'not a stellar history or track record'... you are going back a decade there, at this point. Honestly curious if you have examples of customer issues since the actual Mierce days that haven't been resolved well; I'm honestly not aware of much, if anything beyond some disappointment on timelines (which is balanced out by a fairly flexible array of options on what to order and when, as far as KS models go)...

You are absolutely right and as one of those customers of Maelstrom who never had an issue, it feels a bit..hmm.. to bring it up. But.. Mierce has this habit of doing weird stuff in batches - stuff that companies doing well simply don't do - which is what happened with Maelstrom when it was struggling.

Random Kickstarter, weird resin post, friends and family payments... its not a great look.

Fair enough on much of that. Honestly I'm OK reading through the marketing (...at least they're not AoW. Good Lawd Almighty that Patreon prose is physically painful) but I agree a more sober approach would appeal more.

I will say, however, they made it clear from the get go that the STL provisioning would be monthly patreon/tribes, with a few KS a year (if it worked out OK enough with the first one).

A KS to throw out a couple oddball models they couldn't really pack into one of the monthly battle hosts seems to fit right into that.

As for small businesses being strapped for cash, well, I suspect in this industry that's most of 'em. Looking for some quick(er) liquidity to get printing production set up, and likely improve margins, seems understandable. I agree they likely don't have deep reserves. In fairness that should only encourage buying STL's, of course - at worst you're out a tenner for the month they go belly up

 Bolognesus wrote:
at worst you're out a tenner for the month they go belly up

I have wondered about it, but i presume our Patreon files in our accounts over on MMF will still be there IF Mierce goes belly up!?

 Original Timmy wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
at worst you're out a tenner for the month they go belly up

I have wondered about it, but i presume our Patreon files in our accounts over on MMF will still be there IF Mierce goes belly up!?

MMF library files will remain available almost regardless, yes (copyright takedown would be one reason not to, but I think we're all pretty confident that's not a realistic risk!).

MMF is a bit of a cowboy operation in how they deal with sellers from what I gather so honestly I'm happier keeping stuff on a cloud location of my own, but that's a very, very paranoid quirk on my part more than anything.

 Bolognesus wrote:

 Original Timmy wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
at worst you're out a tenner for the month they go belly up

I have wondered about it, but i presume our Patreon files in our accounts over on MMF will still be there IF Mierce goes belly up!?

MMF library files will remain available almost regardless, yes (copyright takedown would be one reason not to, but I think we're all pretty confident that's not a realistic risk!).

MMF is a bit of a cowboy operation in how they deal with sellers from what I gather so honestly I'm happier keeping stuff on a cloud location of my own, but that's a very, very paranoid quirk on my part more than anything.

Thanks thats good to know, ive got a couple of KS and Mierces Patreon on there. Im the same i like to have my own copy of files just in case, but im out off storage at mo and iirc it was Mierces 1st Patreon that used up the last of my HD space lol. I dont quite yet have faith in cloud storage, if goes down for good everything is lost, if a HD goes down i can run some recover software to hopefully recover the files.

@ALL has anyone printed that big ass dragon we got, the Brythoniaid Cadwaladr the Blessed, Rhi of Gwynedd, if so how did that get cut down to printable sized parts and how did the print turn out?

I've printed the dragon and am half way through painting it. Print is phenomenal. Genuinely excellent. My printer bed is big enough to have been able to use the large wing files, so only one joint. Had to do a bit of filling in the joints, but nothing difficult.


I'll be posting pictures when it's done, but happy to share a wip if you want to see the print.

 JamesY wrote:
I've printed the dragon and am half way through painting it. Print is phenomenal. Genuinely excellent. My printer bed is big enough to have been able to use the large wing files, so only one joint. Had to do a bit of filling in the joints, but nothing difficult.


I'll be posting pictures when it's done, but happy to share a wip if you want to see the print.

Cool, yes please mate, go for it

Lighting isn't great, but hopefully will give you an idea;



It really is huge.

 JamesY wrote:
Lighting isn't great, but hopefully will give you an idea;

Spoiler:

It really is huge.

Thanks, yes he is pretty big and he is coming along nicely you will have to post a pic once hes finished

New STL campaign now live on MMF: https://www.myminifactory.com/frontier/the-dead-of-black-barrow-2065

USD 24,99 Early Bird.

For the nervous among us:
The Dead of Black Barrow battle host will immediately be available to download upon pledging for that tier, and it contains:



moar pics:

Do the .stl models have integrated bases?

I am just curious if Mierce is printing bases now.

Have not heard from him in some time and he is not answering my emails.

No integrated bases, and I just looked through my files and I don't think they've given us files for blank bases either? Which suck to print in resin anyway, FDM is a lot better for bases. I assume they have a zillion Templar Forge bases kicking around still (which I really like personally).

They provide STLs for their bases. They're via a direct download from the same site hosting the models before they get to MMF but a different link and aren't on MMF. Every release post I've seen the link.

Ah there we go, thanks MS

I think the idea is you really won't even want their bases unless you're interested in Darklands specifically, in which case you're most likely subscribed to either Patreon or Tribes anyway.
...That or it might be an oversight.

Are there many pictures in the wild of what the new resin looks like?

 Boss Salvage wrote:
I assume they have a zillion Templar Forge bases kicking around still (which I really like personally).

Thanks. I made those for years. Maybe not a zillion but a fair number.

Just odd they went silent and now I understand why. They are simply going to a print on demand system.

Oh well, time to write this off and move on.

kenofyork wrote:
Thanks. I made those for years. Maybe not a zillion but a fair number.

Oh! You made the TF bases? Nice work, I use them for most of my one-off 3D prints that don't have any set gaming purpose. Pity that Mierce has left you in the dark as they reorient the business around 3D printing. Which currently involves feuding with Patreon and being disappointed that the Jute Frontier hasn't blown up with us active patrons

I think they're shipping their print-on-demand minis with the good old black HIPS bases, though? They're certainly still all available on the store and I haven't heard a thing about those going out of production.

They're made available in STL for folks doing the printing at home, but I struggle to see how it'd be cheaper to print them on demand rather than buy them in plastic for Mierce proper, so assuming you've lost a customer might be a bit premature?

Just had a delivery of Culcca, Gāst Cyning which is my first 3D print from Mierce.

Looks good and certainly comparable to their resin and it came with the standard plastic base, 60mm in this case (not a 3D print). If i remember right they did a base buy back for credit fairly recently so if that went well with KS backers who've used other styles that could have given them a load (i kept mine as i use them, but i do have a load)


spoiler for size

so the real differences are going to be down to the sculpts, and while Bob does some really nice work i'm still more drawn to the hand sculpted stuff by Alan Carasco, Valentin Zak etc which are still going to be in resin