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gungo wrote:
1) yea you are right there are 2 exemption lists in that column.. to bad they didn’t clarify which exemption list on page 4 second column they meant.

One has bullet points and one has not. Datasheets also never have the specialist mob keyword, units do. It's rather clear which one they meant.

CaptainO wrote:

gungo wrote:
Does this mean 4 units of deffkoptas (1 boomboys) are allowed in speedmob… considering things like buggies warlords and aircraft are hadcapped and troops and Transports uncapped anyway… deffkoptas and mega nobs having another unit isn’t bad.

“ Page 4 – Muster Armies
Add the following bullet point to the exceptions listed in the right-hand column:
‘• Specialist Mob units”

They also confirmed named characters like mozgrod can be added to detachments without breaking the single clan rule.


Also another faq update is and they have now completely skipped over “critical mass” campaign book and are past nachmund campaign now… deffkoptas attack out da sun is NEVER going to be faq’d.

I think at this stage it looks like GW meant attack out of the sun to be used as is (can pop a unit back into reserve the same turn as it arrives) I've not seen any tournaments say otherwise and as annoying as it maybe it gives the speedmob a unique tool.

Maybe of it became oppressive (which would require orks to once again win a tournament) it would force gw to take a look at all our rules (substandard nob bikers and weird vehicle squadron rules I'm looking at you) until then it's fair game.

The weird vehicle rules were a direct nerf to spamming squigbuggies, although i am firmly on the side that 9 of those don't output enough damage to be oppressive and it was a combination of everything + T7 units that made it feel oppressive because most players want weapons S4 to kill T7 units. But that's my take.

Hell even the mech gun changes in the start of the codex follow the same reasoning.

Nob bikers, their forge world models, it's hard to say, SM dreadnaught culverins just got the nerf they deserved but took a while, so I don't expect them to change it any time soon. Although it is also strange because they did update the warboss on warbike. Honestly I dunno if it is oversight or they are trying t phase them out.

I mean there is literally a nob on warbike in the warbiker datasheet and that model has all the rules that should have been on the nob biker datasheet.. it has +1 wound, cloud of smoke, big red button, and core….

They can phase out the nob bikers datasheet from Fw but the nob biker in the warbikers datasheet will always exist since the plastic kit has that 1 special plastic bike model that holds a boss pole. It’s just silly that GW kinda ignored the whole datasheet.

Forceride wrote:
Although it is also strange because they did update the warboss on warbike. Honestly I dunno if it is oversight or they are trying t phase them out.

They kind if had to change the warboss on warbike because otherwise it would have been the best warboss by far, as it still would have had access to 8th edition's auras.

In general GW does as little as possible for FW. Unless a unit is super popular or broken, it doesn't get anything beyond minimum effort updates.

 Jidmah wrote:

In general GW does as little as possible for FW. Unless a unit is super popular or broken, it doesn't get anything beyond minimum effort updates.

My thought's in words.

which i never understood why...its not like its a separate entity or something that any sales in FW messes with GW.

Hell, isnt the last 40k release like 3 years old now? And they have decommissioned like half of their normal range?

gungo wrote:
Does this mean 4 units of deffkoptas (1 boomboys) are allowed in speedmob… considering things like buggies warlords and aircraft are hadcapped and troops and Transports uncapped anyway… deffkoptas and mega nobs having another unit isn’t bad.

“ Page 4 – Muster Armies
Add the following bullet point to the exceptions listed in the right-hand column:
‘• Specialist Mob units”

They also confirmed named characters like mozgrod can be added to detachments without breaking the single clan rule.


Also another faq update is and they have now completely skipped over “critical mass” campaign book and are past nachmund campaign now… deffkoptas attack out da sun is NEVER going to be faq’d.

careful here, some characters are exempt via SPECIALIST LADZ, but not all characters are on that list, others would have to come in a AUXILIARY SUPPORT DETACHMENT or the entire detachment loses klan kulture via rules on ork clan detachments

"If your army is Battle-forged, <CLAN> units from ORKS Detachments gain access to the following clan rules, provided every model in that Detachment that is drawn from a clan (with the exception of Specialist Ladz) is from the same clan. Such a Detachment is referred to as a Clan Detachment."

Just played chaos knights with my bike heavy speed mob list but I ran it as a single detachment (warboss on wartrike, 2*8 warbikes,1*9warbikes, 2* deffkoptas one of 5 one of 6, 1 squad of 2* rukkatrukks, 2*wazbomms) I took TTL on the two deffkoptas and larger bike squad and gave both wazboms forcefields.

I paid 3cp to start the wazboms in reserve and also put the two squads of deffkoptas into deep strike. I got first turn.

T1 I scored 2 on engage, and dropped did retrieve nachmund data and did borderline zero damage.

In his turn he killed 7 out of 8 of my bikes but I spent 2 CP pass moral.

Turn 2 I brought in everything and by the bottom of 3 I had tabled him (3 big knights tooled for shooting and 3 lightening lock wardogs) the big knights were even on t9 for two turns.

6 deffkoptas charging with crashing through twice really caused him problems.

Honestly the 2*rukkatrukks did literally nothing. I'm thinking of changing them for one more 5*deffkoptas that I'd start on the table and use drive by the keep them safe t1 (if there's a change to indirect coming then this is even better) it would change my 3 ttls to the 3 deffkoptas but I think I'd only take that when my opponent doesn't give up any secondaries anyway.

I generally find a Nitro Squigs Rukkatrukk is waaay more valuable than two. They're kind of a one or three unit in my opinion.

Yeah, RSB are one nitro or three.

And they depend very much on the opponent. To some armies they do nothing. On the other hand, some armies struggle because RSBs clear their scoring units very well.

CaptainO wrote:
Just played chaos knights with my bike heavy speed mob list but I ran it as a single detachment (warboss on wartrike, 2*8 warbikes,1*9warbikes, 2* deffkoptas one of 5 one of 6, 1 squad of 2* rukkatrukks, 2*wazbomms) I took TTL on the two deffkoptas and larger bike squad and gave both wazboms forcefields.

I paid 3cp to start the wazboms in reserve and also put the two squads of deffkoptas into deep strike. I got first turn.

T1 I scored 2 on engage, and dropped did retrieve nachmund data and did borderline zero damage.

In his turn he killed 7 out of 8 of my bikes but I spent 2 CP pass moral.

Turn 2 I brought in everything and by the bottom of 3 I had tabled him (3 big knights tooled for shooting and 3 lightening lock wardogs) the big knights were even on t9 for two turns.

6 deffkoptas charging with crashing through twice really caused him problems.

Honestly the 2*rukkatrukks did literally nothing. I'm thinking of changing them for one more 5*deffkoptas that I'd start on the table and use drive by the keep them safe t1 (if there's a change to indirect coming then this is even better) it would change my 3 ttls to the 3 deffkoptas but I think I'd only take that when my opponent doesn't give up any secondaries anyway.

You paid CP to put the Wazboms in reserve? Arent wazboms, like any of our super sonic planes, allowed to start in reserve already for free?

Edit:
Why was i under the assumption that they could deepstrike for free? Werent there a rule that allowed them to do that once? Im so confused right now.

Beardedragon wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
Just played chaos knights with my bike heavy speed mob list but I ran it as a single detachment (warboss on wartrike, 2*8 warbikes,1*9warbikes, 2* deffkoptas one of 5 one of 6, 1 squad of 2* rukkatrukks, 2*wazbomms) I took TTL on the two deffkoptas and larger bike squad and gave both wazboms forcefields.

I paid 3cp to start the wazboms in reserve and also put the two squads of deffkoptas into deep strike. I got first turn.

T1 I scored 2 on engage, and dropped did retrieve nachmund data and did borderline zero damage.

In his turn he killed 7 out of 8 of my bikes but I spent 2 CP pass moral.

Turn 2 I brought in everything and by the bottom of 3 I had tabled him (3 big knights tooled for shooting and 3 lightening lock wardogs) the big knights were even on t9 for two turns.

6 deffkoptas charging with crashing through twice really caused him problems.

Honestly the 2*rukkatrukks did literally nothing. I'm thinking of changing them for one more 5*deffkoptas that I'd start on the table and use drive by the keep them safe t1 (if there's a change to indirect coming then this is even better) it would change my 3 ttls to the 3 deffkoptas but I think I'd only take that when my opponent doesn't give up any secondaries anyway.

You paid CP to put the Wazboms in reserve? Arent wazboms, like any of our super sonic planes, allowed to start in reserve already for free?

Edit:
Why was i under the assumption that they could deepstrike for free? Werent there a rule that allowed them to do that once? Im so confused right now.

Aircraft have their own rules regarding deployment from strategic reserves, in that they don't have to deploy at the edge of the board.

But during battle they can fly off the board and go into strategic reserves for free. Not start in reserves for free.

ah yes. we can fly out and go in to deepstrike.

I dont use planes often, so i must have missed that part that they cant go in to deepstrike/strategic reserve for free.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
which i never understood why...its not like its a separate entity or something that any sales in FW messes with GW.

Hell, isnt the last 40k release like 3 years old now? And they have decommissioned like half of their normal range?

With the driving person behind FW gone, technological advancement of their technology to a point where models of any size and detail can be made of plastic, their turf of super-detailed collectors models being eaten up by third party models and 3d printing and their general history of being even worse at writing rules than the main studio, I think they are slowly fading out FW 40k in a similar way that ancient metal models are slowly going away.

I've been saying it for years, and I still firmly believe that you should only ever invest in FW resin if you really care for the models. They will absolutely go the way of the dodo eventually - which doesn't bode well for neither the nobz or the warboss on warbike.

In any case, from playing them a lot recently, I believe that the squighog riders are the replacement for nob bikers. They play and feel a lot like nob bikers used to be, so I doubt that nob bikers will get fixed to step on their turf.

Another fact is, that the FW nob bikers are really below the standard designs. I expect they disappear or will be replaced by plastic alternative soon.

Technically there already is a plastic version in the warbiker box.
But I also beleive that we won’t see a squad of nobs on warbikes once fw discontinued them.
The warboss on bike is interesting. Lore wise it’s all over the place with several names variants etc.
I don’t think it will be discontinued forever once fw model is gone.

It also seems like a model that would sell extremely well unless they somehow botched it.

But I guess the wartrike was their shot at making a warboss+1 and they simply failed at what they were trying to do and created an interesting new HQ instead. Task failed successfully!

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I generally find a Nitro Squigs Rukkatrukk is waaay more valuable than two. They're kind of a one or three unit in my opinion.

Ya I agree. I was basically making up points. Again I tabled him middle of 3 with effectively 220 points down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I ran a warboss on wartrike as my sole hq giving up the obsec warboss on bike. There's something to be said about the fact it's a vehicle and can therefore score engage (while not being targeted if place correctly) and also his shooting is better than the bike.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly only after writing about it did I realise I could have taken titan slayer. I'd take it over RnD (and keep TTL where I only got 10) especially on the board we played which limited mobility of bikes.

Obsec bikes were great at the "tertiary" mission where I dropped bombs. I spent 2 CP to keep the nob alive which worked wonders. Easy to hide and dropped 4 during the rest of the game (seeing as he was tables from t3)

 Jidmah wrote:
It also seems like a model that would sell extremely well unless they somehow botched it.

But I guess the wartrike was their shot at making a warboss+1 and they simply failed at what they were trying to do and created an interesting new HQ instead. Task failed successfully!

I’m just waiting for wazdakka gutsmek to come back with his twin linked battlecanon warbike… he was a way cooler warboss on bike than zhardsnark the rippa…

if they ever do an evilsunz focused release and dont bring back wazdakka it will be a serious crime.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if they ever do an evilsunz focused release and dont bring back wazdakka it will be a serious crime.

I'm hopeful for a Wazdakka Gutsmek/Warboss on warbike multipart kit in the future, a la the Squigboss/Mozrog box.

I also think that nob bikers will be brought back into the codex, because others have said, the models already exist and bike based speedwaaaghs have been in the lore forever. Plus, it's a bonus for GW when you have to buy an entire box of warbikers every time you want a single nob biker.

A general rules question relating to my wazbomms and the viability of taking engage on all fronts with my single detachment speed mob. When checking if an aircraft (which is a vehicle) is inside a table quarter to get engage is it just the base or do I need to do an awkward top down measurement to ensure the wings are also inside?

Also if I put the plane into reserves at the start of the game I'm assuming it can come on anywhere on the board (similar to if it flew off an came back the next turn) and isn't limited to the traditional "within 6" of a board edge.

Finally is an aircraft coming in from strategic reserve able to avail of the "can deploy within 9" if it comes in from your board edge" ability.

Odd thing i found out today that i hadnt noticed.

Both Grot tanks and grot Mega tanks have Ere' we go! despite them not needing it.

But Killa Kanz who needs this ability, does not.

Why would killa kanz not have ere we go, when grot tanks do..

Beardedragon wrote:
Odd thing i found out today that i hadnt noticed.

Both Grot tanks and grot Mega tanks have Ere' we go! despite them not needing it.

But Killa Kanz who needs this ability, does not.

Why would killa kanz not have ere we go, when grot tanks do..

Suspect same situation has nobbikers, their not intended but because their very rarely used, GW does not care.

Still working on my Secondaries but here they sit so far, in descending order of likelihood to take.

1: Behind Enemy Lines. This one is a no-brainer. My entire army is geared towards getting into the enemy as quickly as possible, so scoring 4VP a turn for having at least 2 units behind enemy lines will be relatively easy for turns 1-3.

2: Raise the Banners. This one is going to be a bit harder, but the upside is that I have the option of securing this multiple times a turn, so if in turns 3-4 I have units sitting around with not much to do they can score me this with relative ease. I also wouldn't be adverse to leaving behind a biker unit or 3 to run around scoring this all game long. Be relatively easy to score this objective 3 times turn 1.

3: Whatever my enemy is: If i'm playing against Grey Knights or TS i'm going to go for Abhor the witch. If I play against a mech heavy list i'm going to go with Bring it down. And if I play against an infantry heavy list i'll go with No prisoners.

There is a small chance I could go for the Ork secondary about looting the gubbinz.

SemperMortis wrote:
Still working on my Secondaries but here they sit so far, in descending order of likelihood to take.

1: Behind Enemy Lines. This one is a no-brainer. My entire army is geared towards getting into the enemy as quickly as possible, so scoring 4VP a turn for having at least 2 units behind enemy lines will be relatively easy for turns 1-3.

2: Raise the Banners. This one is going to be a bit harder, but the upside is that I have the option of securing this multiple times a turn, so if in turns 3-4 I have units sitting around with not much to do they can score me this with relative ease. I also wouldn't be adverse to leaving behind a biker unit or 3 to run around scoring this all game long. Be relatively easy to score this objective 3 times turn 1.

3: Whatever my enemy is: If i'm playing against Grey Knights or TS i'm going to go for Abhor the witch. If I play against a mech heavy list i'm going to go with Bring it down. And if I play against an infantry heavy list i'll go with No prisoners.

There is a small chance I could go for the Ork secondary about looting the gubbinz.

Yeah, i like the good bitz one, have you consider it?

Initially I was skeptical about engage in a speed mob but I've changed my mind. If anyone could clarify if it's the base of an aircraft or the full model that needs to be wholly inside a table quarter it'd be super helpful.

I've always found engage good in a normal list but I haven't played it since the min 3 rule came in so behind enemy lines is probably better now.

I believe that in 9th ed, if a model has a base, then you pretty much ignore the hull for measuring distance.
Just explain to your opponent -before starting the game- that for distance on your flyer you will always measure from the base, i see no reason he will contest that.

All distances are measured to the base, line of sight, however, can be measured to the base and the model itself. being wholly within a table quarter is a distance i believe.

Though even if i say that, models on bases still cant overhang edges, like planes cant have their wings outside the battlemap itself even though distances are drawn to the base.

Maybe that has an effect on the quarter thing. I dont THINK it does, i think you just need the base to be wholly within, but im not 100% sure

Forceride wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Odd thing i found out today that i hadnt noticed.

Both Grot tanks and grot Mega tanks have Ere' we go! despite them not needing it.

But Killa Kanz who needs this ability, does not.

Why would killa kanz not have ere we go, when grot tanks do..

Suspect same situation has nobbikers, their not intended but because their very rarely used, GW does not care.

ORKS are highly restricted and highly penalized compared to other factions.
i play other factions sometimes, but none of the others face anywhere near the restrictions ORKS face, why ? i don't know, i suspect it because ork players are very talented and so the faction gets nerfed and penalized alot more than others
but the examples are obvious to see.

unit upgrades that result in detachment ability, stratagem, aura ability loss,
vehicle upgrades that apply to 1 model and this model has to be in a unit of 1, why a unit of 1? which other faction has that kind of restriction ?
aura abilities restricted not just to CORE but specific unit types,
random units not having expected abilities (killa kans ere we go,nob bikers red button cloud of smoke, troops that don't have objective secured )
weird weapons that average 1 wound but cost excessive points, 15 points for a Killkannon , should be free weapon choice like other factions
the most restricted set of stratagems seen to the point where you can pick out about 5 strats and leave the rest at home because most of the strats are unit specific not weapon type specific, or shared keyword specific , (excluding clan stratagems)
keywords exist on certain units just to make sure you can't use certain strats, abilities on them, example Kustom Stompa doesn't have the STOMPA keyword to make sure you can't use LUMBERING STRIDES
TELLYPORTA strat excludes MONSTER ORKS just to stop you having gaz on there.
DED SNEAKY strat excludes mega armoured units
BREAKIN’ HEADS strat excludes all gretchin units

i still think there are more nerfs coming, warbikers and deffkoptas will be next, 30 points warbikers and ATTACK OUT O’ DA SUN will be changed to end of the shooting phase