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The subject line says it all, I am a total 40k n00b. A friend convinced me to go in on a Black Reach box and I went with the Orks. Really I thought it would be fun to paint but I want to learn the game too. The only thing about learning this game is, holy gak there are a lot of rules and weird things you can do! I'm currently powering threw the rule book and ork codex but I am getting discouraged. I am trying to figure things out on my own but I need help. I've heard people say that since 5th edition came out Orks are gak and I should consider a different class. I've also heard they are fine. I do want to get into this but I want to start out right. What should I consider when picking a class? Should I read the rule book 5 times threw or just try and play and learn as I go? Am I crazy for being this confused or is this just really a lot to take in for a noobie? I just need to feel like other people start with these kind of questions I guess, lol.

Greetings, and welcome to 40k. You went with Orks - you've made a good choice. I'm going to copy and paste something I wrote elsewhere for you to purview and learn from.
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I'm going to work off of a couple of assumptions.
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1. Playing Warhammer 40k is fun.
2. Playing Warhammer 40k and winning is more fun.
3. Playing Warhammer 40k and losing is less fun.
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Human nature and natural selection demand that we continually seek to improve ourselves. Having an A type personality probably doesn't hurt this effort, but if you lose a game of 40k and don't reflect on the game with, "What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? How can I prevent this from happening again?" then I can't really talk to you.

If this thought process and those three assumptions *do* apply to you, then read on.

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Orks are a unique codex. An ork boy is significantly cheaper than just about any other model in 40k, and is basically a platform from which many things spring (other kinds of ork variants - stormboyz, lootas, nobs...). If you read the fluff, every ork starts in the same place, and as they develop, they lean towards on klan/society, which is how they figure out what kind of ork they're going to be.

In other codexes (space marines and their variants being the most prolific), basic troops are well-rounded models. You ever play Final Fight? How about ANY kind of game with character selections? You've got the big, strong guy that's slow...the average Joe....and the weaker but very speedy character. This applies in 40k as well. Space marines are like your average, well-rounded Joe. Orks are NOT. You can't mix and match orks in any order you like to make a generalized list.

This is *not* called power building, its called understanding your codex, how your codex is designed, and using it as such. Every time someone calls "playing a theme" to be "powerbuilding" I want to stab them in the F***** eye. If you look in the Ork codex, do you see the codex writers putting in pictures for the sample armies of some Lootas backing up a squad of meganobs in a trukk, who are advancing next to some buggies and a deffkopta or two?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even TELL you how to make your army. They tell you what the Ork klans are - Bad Moons, Kult of Speed, Deffskullz, etc.

That kind of thematic army construction is the intent of the Ork codex. That is what makes orks powerful. The ork codex is written so that you can design an army list that is absolutely ridiculously powerful, but it is NOT made up of average Joe units; everything is specialized towards a specific goal. When you build an army list, you should follow the thematic advice given to you in the Codex. PICK a theme. There's a lot of them:

Green Tide. Mechanized Assault. Mechanized Shooting. Ork Gunline (Moar Dakka), Kan-Wall. Dreadz of Fury. Kult of Speed. Outflanking Goodness. Rebel Grotz. Nob Bikers. Super Units. Orky Burnas.

All of those things have something in common - the lists were designed with a theme in mind, and have the synergy to work together towards that goal. When you start combining those themes to make a list, you're being counterintuitive to the very style that the orks were created for.

Remember this: Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and they can do it better than that army. However, orks can only do it one at a time. You can outshoot a Tau Gunline. You can out-assault a khorne army or an army of genestealers. You can put down more templates than IG....whatever your goal in mind is....orks can do it better, but it has to stick to that theme. Orks are not meant to be universal, middle-of-the-line armies.

To give another analogy...if you've ever played an MMO, there are different classes. Fighter, Tank, barbarian, mage, cleric, wizard, hunter, ranger, red mage, death knight, rogue, whatever.....its all based on the game you play. The class you pick sets you on a path for the kind of game you play, the skills you get - they are pre-defined roles.

40k armies fit into that kind of typification. Except for Orks. Orks would be the generic class. You start with a neutral character, with skillpoints to assign, and you can make orks any kind of army you want them to be. People fail with orks because they want some of everything. Instead of making them a fighter, or an archer, or a guardian...and they would be better fighters, archers and guardians than every other type...they split points between all three to make a Figardian. F.A.G for short.

Do you want to excel in something, or be a F.A.G? That's what it boils down to.

Are you a F.A.G?




*EDIT* I'm adding information for the tactics article I'm working on.

If you're running a foot-slogging list, shoota boys are your friend. Slugga boys belong inside vehicles. In fact, I think you should convert your slugga boy mobs into shoota boys. In 5th edition, the shoota boy is the most efficient point purchase across all 40k.

Think on that - for 6 points...SIX POINTS....you get an infantry model with an assault 2 STR4 gun, who is WS4, STR4, T4 on the charge. In terms of math hammer between shoota and slugga boys, it's pretty simple. Slugga boys have +1 attack in close combat, and shoota boys have +1 attack outside of close combat. Since your Orks on the assault are only I3, you're going to strike last meaning that 30 boyz are going to take some casualties before getting their attacks back.

On the flip side, shoota boys get 2 shots before assaulting, and the enemy doesn't get to shoot back first and cause casualties - putting in any kind of hurt before you assault is incredibly valuable. And since it has an 18" range, you can shoot into a unit even when you don't have range to assault this turn. My advice for green tide:

Take all your troops choices as shoota boys. Consider taking a squad of gretchin - you can spread them across your front lines to provide 4+ cover saves for your whole army. Alternatively, you can take a squad of ork boyz to do the same. If you make them 'Ard Boyz they gain considerably in staying power.

Want to get real freaky? Take a squad of 'Ard Boyz, stick Mad Dok Grotsnik with them for a 4+/4+. Spread that unit out 2+ coherence to minimize the damage that blast templates can do, and have the whole thing move+run in front of your army. Your screening unit has 4+ armor saves, 4+ feel no pain, and the rest of your army has 4+ cover saves now. If your points allow it, what really tops off the list is adding some fast attack Stormboyz. You can put them into close combat, or have them multi-assault to shake/stun some tanks/artillery, have them get in fast and tie up enemy units (hello Tau!), or if the situation doesn't call for it, you can leave them behind your screening unit and keep them in reserve to get in where you need supporting assault units at.


Something else on the same vein in the same thread I wrote:


Here's a quick take on those various lists. Please remember something important: Every list needs to be tailored for point allocations. What I'm putting down here is an "optimized" list where you get the maximum ability from it, so if you're playing a 1,000 point gunline, three full squads of Lootas + supporting units and troop choices isn't really what you're going to play. You'll have to tweak to match your needs.

Green Tide:
Green tide is actually an apocalypse battle formation, but is a common name for a foot-slogging ork army list. It consists of mobs of 30 shoota boys, a nob with a powerklaw, and either a unit of gretchin or a unit of boyz or 'Ard Boyz (maybe even with Mad Dok) screened across the front to give the rest of the army a 4+ cover save as they advance up the board.

Mechanized Assault:
12 slugga boyz+Nob/PK stacked into trukks, perhaps some battlewagons in the mix, covered by a Big Mek with a KFF...an elite unit or two (kommandos, lootas, burnas) tacked into the mix depending on your personal playstyle - they get into close combat as fast as orkishly possible; with Ghazghkull leading the mix, that's usually turn2.

Mechanized Shooting:
Instead of slugga boys, you have shoota boys, preferably in battlewagons, with a KFF screening them, rolling around the battlefield pouring firepower into enemy units. Alternatively, (and one of my favorite setups) this is 3 Loota squads inside battlewagons sitting on the back table edge, Big mek with KFF in the middle one in a trident formation \|/ to present front armor across the battlefield, surrounded by a unit of gretchin to prevent assaults on rear armor.


Ork Gunline:
Three squads of Lootas form the backbone of this, either sitting in cover or with a screening unit to give them a 4+ cover save, heavy support of big guns or some dreads/kans to provide long range firepower, with the obligatory shoota boy squads.


Kan wall:
One of the current meta-game favorites: Three squads of three killa-kans, protected by a KFF mek (or two) marching up the field screening mobs of shoota boys behind them.


Dreadz of Fury:
Three DeffDreads for Heavy Support + 2 Deff Dreads for troop choices, with a KFF mek screening them for a 4+ cover save, set for either long ranged fire support or close ranged pwnage; I prefer the STR10 DCCWs.


Kult of Speed:
Straight out of your codex! Boyz in trukks, mechanized element + Stormboyz. Ponder this for a moment: 6 trukks full of boyz screened by a Mek with a KFF, in turn screening 3 units of Stormboyz who can move as fast as the trukks moving flat out...that's a lot of fast moving destruction.

Outflanking Goodness:
Kommandos as elites and Deffkoptas as fast attack, as many of each as you can fit in, often with Deffkoptas equipped differently for wound allocation spread outflanking (unless you get turn1 and put your deffkoptas out for a turn1 turbo-boost).


Rebel Grotz:
Instead of six units of boyz, you get.....gretchin! Bwah ha ha. Not particularly scary in themselves, but using covering units or terrain, able to go to ground for a 3+ cover save, making them incredibly difficult to remove from an objective, especially with other gretchin (inside killa-kans) are krumping around the battlefield.

Nob Bikers:
Two warbosses + 20 nobs = 2HQ + 2Troops. 22 models = 1750. Diversified wargear and weaponry let you spread wounds around instead of removing models, and the unit is incredibly tough, has the ability to get anywhere fast, and kill anything fast.

Super Units:
Similar to Nob bikers in having an army with a low model count: Warboss Krumpmaster and the Megaboyz; a couple units of Meganobs, or my personal preference, units of regular nobs with diversified wargear for wound allocation magic - in vehicles!


Orky Burnas:
Start with three units of burna boys. Put them in battlewagons if you like. Mek with a KFF to screen if you do, and you have an army of combination templates / power weapons. Alternatively, a warboss makes nobs a troops choice, and you can give them all kombi-skorchas for some real carnage.


Battlewagon Spam:
Did you know that you can field 8 Battlewagons in a single army list? That's right...eight battlewagons. Three Heavy Support, Three dedicated transports for elite unit nobs, and two warbosses making two units of nobs troop choices so that you can take two more battlewagons. I think any time you have vehicles, you should have a KFF floating around, so I wouldn't advocate going for 8....but you can do a lot of things with a list of Battlewagons.

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You're off to a good start with some boys and 5 nobs and a few deffkoptas from the black reach box. Things for you to do next:

1. Get more boyz.

2. Assemble the Deffkoptas from the AoBR box and use plasticard to give them buzzsaws. Those are powerful anti-vehicle tools for what you have now.

3. Decide which of those "themes" appeals to you and let us know. We'll help you down the right path.

Welcome to the Waaaugh!

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Also, read this Ork Tactica: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Category:Orks_Tactica

2. Assemble the Deffkoptas from the AoBR box and use plasticard to give them buzzsaws. Those are powerful anti-vehicle tools for what you have now.

Now remember, I am a n00b! One of the most overwhelming things that I have had to deal with trying to learn 40k is conversions. Luckily I'm handy with the interweb and I was able to find a deffkopta conversion with buzzsaws. Can you really just make something that looks like a weapon from the armory and glue it on or do you have to use actual GW bits? The customization that players are allowed to do, which I'm sure makes this game awesome and unique, also makes it very confusing.

Warboss Krumpmaster and the Megaboyz

Another confusing thing, Named mobs. Are there specific models for named mobs (i.e Warboss Krumpmaster) or is this another conversion job with a basic Warboss model?

I also forgot to mention in my original post that I picked up a box of Gretchin, they looked like they would be fun to paint and it was a cheap buy.

Oh, one more question. Does a klan of Freebooters necessarily mean Pirate Orks? I was under the impression that it could really be anything that doesn't fall under the main Ork klans or even a mix of all of the Ork klans.

Thanks again for your help! Man, there is a lot to this game lol.

If you want to play in official tournaments, then there are rules about what % of each model (50%? 75% no idea) must be official GW bitz - if not, go nuts.

Just remember that your custom conversion should be approximately the same size and shape as the official model, since the game uses true line of sight.

As for warboss Krumpmaster - I've not heard of him, Dashofpepper might've just used that as an example name. In any event, most named characters have their own models which are fancier than the generic 'Warboss' models, or whatever.

What DashofPepper said. If I could go back and start my Orks from scratch, I would start with one of those themes and buy models that suit it. Saves time saves money, wins games. Congrats on chosing Orks.

Awesome info Pepperman! I've been building my Mob for almost 2 years now and this was a great read. I've discovered over time what you laid out for us here.

@ Serj: Usually GW prefers you to use their bits but will accept a 75% ratio of GW bits to other stuff (Unless it looks super cool, then you get more leeway). As for the named lists....if you can't find a model on their website for a specific named character then you can either Proxy another model as the named character or make your own with either conversions or modifications.

Finally, welcome to the hobby and the WAAAAGHHH!

Welcome to the Waaagh!!!

Still very much a noob myself, just started in February, but you've made a great choice with Orks. Orks are great for variety, great for making Kustoms and great for fun.

Best advice I can give for learning the rules is to play the game. Just set up against your mate and learn together. After a few games it soon starts to sink in. All the Codex's tend to have some special rules, so you won't know about them all, but don't worry. If playing against a new army and a new rule just ask your opponent to show you their Codex.

I love playing off the fluff in-game. After my first game where Space Marines wiped me off the board I cheered and smiled, "Yes, I won!" My opponent looked puzzled and said he was the victor as he held all the objectives. So I informed him that I'm Ork, and having a good old fight was all that mattered, not some silly objective. As all my boyz are dead Orks don't count that as a loss because we'll just re-spore. He shook his head and laughed at my logic.

And as for how good Orks are, I came joint 4th out of 6 in a mini league against players who already knew the game. Not bad for as noob. And the winner of that mini-league, Orks! Dakka Dakka!

Well its good to see another Ork player. The orks are the best at close combat its just getting there thats hell for them. Also it is one of the only armys you feild an average of 100 figs so they are quite fun.

Serj wrote:

Now remember, I am a n00b! One of the most overwhelming things that I have had to deal with trying to learn 40k is conversions. Luckily I'm handy with the interweb and I was able to find a deffkopta conversion with buzzsaws.

Here's a picture laden guide that I made on turning Deffkoptas into Warbuggies: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/282811.page

The painting and modeling forums are a great help - if you don't know how to make something, ask and someone will likely link you a guide or give you instructions.

Also: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/ - those magnets are absolutely awesome for modeling. My Deffkoptas have the blade magnetized, the stand magnetized, and the buzzsaw magnetized - nothing breaks when I travel, and its ready for quick assembly for a game. For my buzzsaws, I cut a corner of a sprue down into an L shape, and glued it onto a piece of plasticard that I had cut into a circular blade / saw shape. I magnetized the end of it, and voila!

I also cut off and magnetized the arms on my nobs so that I can switch between weapon loadouts / wargear between games.

Serj wrote:

Another confusing thing, Named mobs. Are there specific models for named mobs (i.e Warboss Krumpmaster) or is this another conversion job with a basic Warboss model?

I also forgot to mention in my original post that I picked up a box of Gretchin, they looked like they would be fun to paint and it was a cheap buy.

Oh, one more question. Does a klan of Freebooters necessarily mean Pirate Orks? I was under the impression that it could really be anything that doesn't fall under the main Ork klans or even a mix of all of the Ork klans.

Thanks again for your help! Man, there is a lot to this game lol.

Specific named models are just unique fluff that people give to their models. Its bad form when you're posting an army list because it makes the reader have to read twice as hard to figure out what you have. They are basic models, but given special names by the owner purely for artistic reasons. Gretchin: useful in many ork lists, typically as a squad of 10 gretchin and a runtherder, 19 gretchin and a runtherder, or 29 gretchin and 2 runtherders. I did some shopping on e-bay and got some 1st edition / 2nd edition gretchin for $0.25 apiece. A box of 10 costs $15, and I'm NOT paying $1.50 per model for a 3 point model.

Speaking of e-bay, do some looking around. Supporting your FLGS is always good, but for bulk purchases, you can often times find really good deals. The swap shop here on Dakka is another place for you to look.

In terms of freebooters - that is usually used to describe an army led by Captain Badrukk, or with Flash Gitz in it - which are a terrible contribution to the Ork codex. I wouldn't recommend using them, they're expensive, overpriced in terms of point costs, and not very useful compared to other things you could spend your points on. If you want fire support, Lootas are the best answer.

Orks are fine. They are not overpowered, certainly, as they have some very prominent weaknesses, but they are not helpless either, as those weaknesses can be mitigated by strong army list construction and good tactics. If I was to attempt to put a finger on the orks' "problems," is that while they are flexible as a CODEX, meaning you can go a lot of different directions with your army lists, they are not flexible as units, creating lots of situations where you can annihilate the right opponent and get annihilated by the wrong one.

The main thing you need to do is figure out what TYPE of ork you want to be. Read the battle reports to get an idea how the different units and army lists work. Dash posts good mechanized ork lists (battlewagons and trukks) and very detailed reports. You can see other typical ork builds (kan wall, horde, etc.) if you search other battle reports.

From there, you can take the base of models you have from Black Reach and build out. Black Reach lends itself to assault orks because of the slugga boyz, but don't let that hold you back. You can acquire shoota boyz fairly quickly and go another way. Just find the type that suits your interest, playstyle, tactics, and personality. You'll find an ork list to suit whatever you want.

Thank you all so much for your responses, it's all been very helpful. I'm glad I came across this site.

As far as Freebooters go they must have changed it. I had purchased a really old ork codex for painting ideas and in there it said Freebooters are orks that have no klan markings or they are a klan made up of all different klans. I liked the idea of having the klan made up of different klans because it seemed like it would be more fun to paint a variety. Do people ever do this or do they tend to stick with one klan for all of their models?

Welcome to the hobby and don't worry too much, Orks are very forgiving when it comes to conversions. Half of their vehicles shouldn't work in reality but thanks to Ork tech it does.

Welcome to 40k, as a new player also don't get to nervous about what codex your using or stressing about know every single rule before you play. As a sidenote you made the right choice with taking the AOBR orks. I started with SM's from the set and you really take power armor for granted, you will be a better player using Orks.

First of all, welcome to the hobby.

Second of all, ignore "These guys suck, these guys are awesome". People are always biased to whatever they like, and some people (like me) poke fun at this (Chaos is Best! No army can compare! Except those damn guardsmen......). People on this site say "Oh, Unit X is terrible" or "Unit Y does things so much better than Unit Z". I don't know how it is for Orks, but every unit has their place, you just have to find it.

Third: If you are having problems with the rules, ask your friend to play you in a small 500 pt game, and ask him to not use vehicles/crazy units, only HQ and Troops right off the bat until you learn the rules a little bit better.

Bout all the advice I can offer to a non Chaos player, sorry.

Listen all I can really say is don't get discouraged and take it easy. Just start off with the basic "movement then shooting then assault" format of the game. Then try and get familiar with the weapon skill/ballistic skill and strength/ toughness aspects. Take it little bits at a time and try not to get overwhelmed. When I started playing I thought "I'll never learn all this!" but now I can work without the rulebook with ease. Also even as a loyal imperial guard/space wolves player I'm still happy to say good choice with the orks, you will have fun. Waaagh!

When i first got into 40k it was the old 2nd edition box with a cardboard dread and a ton of boyz and gretchin and a few space marines me and my buddy kinda just traded back and forth until we decided we were more comfortable playing which army all the games started out with just what we had and over a few weeks things started getting added in HQ, Fast Attack Etc i say just get the basics out of the way squad of marines vs squad of orks on the kitchen table and the rules will become second nature in no time

Welcome to 40k! Orks are a great starting army, and I just got out of being a noob a little time ago. You should read the rule book, it will really help you learn the game!

Here is something you might like. this template along with some ingenuity can get you a respectable Ork Trukk (Humma).

Play the game, is the best advice I can give you. Second would be to watch other games in progress and talk to people about the game would be third.

Dashofpepper has it hands down. I wish I could of read his post when I started collecting orks years ago. Now I have enough Orks to play 4 or 5 of the listed Ork armies without needing extra models. I'd still have about the same number of models, but I'd would of had a more coherrent time of building my armies.

Dakka is the place to get up to speed on the Orks. It won't be long until you won't be noobish any longer. Like any other Internet Forum there will be Trolls, snarkiness, bad spelling/grammar, etc... but if you can deal with all that you will find gold here.

Take a deep breath and avoid letting your self become frustrated or disheartened. The essential core rules of 40k are actually simple and intuitive. It's all the exceptions and situational rules that can make the whole thing seem overwhelming. The trick is to try them out as you learn them. As someone else mentioned, concentrate on getting the move/shoot/assault process down pat. The rest is gravy. Once you have the core stuff cemented in your head, everything else will fall into place. So, get your miniatures out and play out a single turn, learning as you go. You'll be surprised at how quickly you pick it up.