Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I'm writing a list for an event that's commin' up, but I don't know what to throw into my last elites choice.

HQ: Ghazghkull 225 points
HQ: Big Mek with KFF 85 points

ELITES
15 Burna Boyz (225 points) { OR Snikrot and 14 kommandos, 2x burnas (255 points) }

5 Lootas 75
5 Lootas 75


TROOPS

20 boyz with 2 rokkit launchas and a Power Klaw/bosspole nob 180 points
20 boyz with 2 rokkit launchas and a Power Klaw/bosspole nob 180 points
10 grotz with runtherd 40 points { OR 14 'ard boyz 175 points }

FAST

3 deffkoptas with rokkits (one with buzzsaw) 160 points

HEAVY

Battlewagon with Armor Plates, Grabbin' Klaw, Deffrolla, Big Shoota, Boarding plank and RPJ 145 points.
Battlewagon with Armor Plates, Grabbin' Klaw, Deffrolla, Big Shoota, Boarding plank and RPJ 145 points.
Battlewagon with Armor Plates, Grabbin' Klaw, Deffrolla, Big Shoota, Boarding plank and RPJ 145 points.
(To reiterate, THERE ARE THREE WAGONS)

Where I have OR, that denotes the choice. The list is essentially the same, but one way, I have a unit that can jump onto the board and threaten your back lines. The other way, I don't have this, but I have a choice to secure my own objective, and leave it defended, maybe I'll drop a deffkopta from the burnaless list and fit the grotz in.

My question is which list is superior? Because I can't have both burnas and snikrot, so which one would be more useful? I'm expecting to see wolves tyranids and blood angels, and certainly guard.

I'd say go with the burnas in a wagon.

you dont have any nobs.... is ghaz gonna run in by himself? hes going to have a hell of a time at that. anyway, based on your model selection ill try to make an attempt at a retouch for you...

HQ:
Ghaz - 225
big mek kff - 85

elites:10 lootas - 150
10 bunras - 150

troops: 10 nobs 1 with wagghh banner, 1 with powerclaw, 4 with big choppas, 1 pain boy, 2 with twin linked shoota, 2 with combi rokkit, and 2 with kombi scorcha. all with cybork and eavy armor = 420

2x 20 shoota boys with 2 big shootas, nob w/ bp and pk = 340

fast: 3 deffkoptas w/ rokkits = 135

Heavy support:
3x battlewagons w/ rpj, plates, grot riggers reinforced ram. = 345

1850

ok so basiclly, you have 3 bw. load up each with the boys and ghaz with the nobs. your mek can join one of the boys mobs.

i consolodated your lootas into 1 choice, since in units of 5, yea they can split fire, but its easier to make them run. plus, in missions with reserves they have to walk on, and you might not even get both. put them in 1 group so they either all get effective, or none do, they have better LD. plus with that many shots at something youll have good odds of hurting what you shoot at. (that siad, i would honestly rather put the points into nob bikers, but i dont know if you have the models or not)

the battlewagons imho are better kept as cheap as possible. redpaint may or may not help... but its low cost and orky so it stays. deathrollers are immensly expensive and rarley actually do anything since your only moving 12" a turn". (alot of stuff could avoid you if they wanted...and most will want too) replace those with the ram, and add some riggers so if you get immobilized you can fix up and keep going, and still pretty much ignore terrain. your boys (and nobs) in the back can all shoot out, so no need for guns. at least not more big shootas.

ive never really used koptas, as i think they are too expensive, but, if i were to take them i would keep them all doing the same thing. a 25 point power klaw inside 3 jetbikes probally wont do much. keep em using those rokkits from 24" out, and let your boys do the tank wreckin.

i added a nice beefy unit of nobs for ghaz to run with. yes they are expensive, but they can do the whole wound allocation circus, have 4+ armor 5+ invun and fnp. when this unit hits something itll hurt... plus they get decent anti tank as well. and they are troops...so score!

burnas on foot dont generally work well, but after all of the above i had 150 points left, so i added in the 10 man unit, since thats what you said you were looking at, and ive never really used kommandos or snkirot.

personally i would suggest dropping ghaz for a basic warboss. a boss w/klaw, twin shoota, squig, bp, eavy armor and cybork is 100 points cheaper then ghaz, and "almost" does the same thing. (you loose the always 6" wagghh, 1 ws, 1 attack and 1 wound) the waggh banner with the nobs makes up for the -1 ws, and with all those nobs you basiclly gain 20 wounds. with the 100 points free, you can easilly fit in a bare bones BW for your burnas, or anything else you want. (1 suggestion: with the 100 points saved from wb swap, drop the lootas for 150 more, and forget the burnas. you now have 400 points...throw that into a tooled up nob biker squad with lots of pk. probally the best anti tank unit in the game )

dropped the grots...your army is 100% mek pretty much and foot sloggin grots wont do a thing. if your playing objectives, your 40 boys and 10 nobs can do objective grabbing better, and grots wont hold one if needed. however, if you drop ghaz to a basic boss, you could fit in a small unit of grots and use them for late game grabbing, but thats assuming they dont get shot to bits before hand.

Anyway, hope those above tips help. as i say all the time...your army play how you want, this is just how i would run mine if i was using your model allocation.

@DarthSpade: Ghaz and the mek were both going to ride with the burnaboyz in one of the heavy wagons. I've seen a couple other ork players do this and it's devastating, I gave it a shot myself a while back and it owns.

The grots are a 40point anchor. 2/3rds of most games need you to secure an objective, the grots give me a way to have an objective in my back field, and then sit on it while trying not to get shot...although, I might drop this unit and give my mek some useful upgrades, as I haven't played many games where I remembered to place an objective where the grots could camp on it easily.

I used to run a nob-star (with their own dedicated transport wagon) but I found that people tended to counter nobz because everyone has seen them, so they know how to kill them (S8+ and instant death, or just make them lose combat and run away). The regular warboss is cool, but I'm tired of commin' up short on my WAAAGH fleet roll, so Ghaz is in. Also, I do keep my wagons as cheep as possible, only I have deffrollas. Now that it's been FAQed, deffrollas are the single most powerful upgrade on a vehicle.

well in that case, it seems you have a pretty good idea what you wanna do, so load it up and go with it. if burnas work, id use them instead of snikrot... since in my exp trying something new dosent work as well as taking more of what you already know works. either way, youve got your plans. go with em and good luck. : )

I'm going to have to jump in and disagree with pretty much everything Dathspader said. ><

10 man Loota unit is a huge mistake. 10 burnas in a wagon is just enough to get rendered ineffective if something happens to their wagon. Cutting down to three troop choices in 1850, where the three of them make up the bulk of your killing power is also a mistake. Making battlewagons as cheap as possible and the deffrollas being useless.....also a mistake.
-----------------------------------
OP: Looks like you basically copied my 1850 list / 2k list variants and are running it yourself. Nothing wrong with 15 burnas in a battlewagon.

My only objection to your list is that you only have three troop choices. You're going to have interesting times when you run into 5 objective missions. I'm not saying that you need to change it, but consider it strongly. 10 gretchin with a runtherder....nothing wrong with that - makes a useful secondary objective grabber.

also, putting Ghazghkull AND the burnas AND the KFF is a mistake; you're putting all your eggs in one basket; now there is a clear target to shoot at; I think good tactics require that you give your enemy hard choices. I run Ghazghkull+Burnas in one wagon, and the KFF with boyz or nobs depending on the point level in another wagon. Multiple threats.

well, disagree or not, in my expirence, lootas in 5 man squads (i have tried this, using 3x 5men loota teams) they either A: get ahnialted in 1 round of shooting...or they take 2 wounds and run off the table. or B: i end up playing reserves and they show up and have to walk, and usually end up getting "A" anyway. i found when i grouped them, firstly, i was rolling more dice and geting more hits, and second, when they did take a few wounds it wasent enough to make them run. third, in missions with reserves, they either all showed up or none did. usually they worked better as 1 unit.

as for wagons being as cheap as possible... again in my expirence people see battlewagons and shoot them to pieces. since they are open topped (and best kept that way for purpose of charge upon disembark) they die easy, even at A:14 on the front...but that offers little help vrs lances, railcannons, or fast attackers who can hit the side, or close range meltas. usually there are alot of these in a game. if im bringing battlewagoins, i see them as beefed up transports, and dont like the idea of spending the points on such. the other method is a full kit, usually involving a 'ard case, a big gun, and lots of smaller guns along with a roller and such. but then its my tank, not my transport. only used burnas for a few games and they died.... so either i dont know how to use em, or they dont fit my style, but i wont comment on burnas. never really used grots either. seems to me though, that taking a cmall useless troops choice just to camp on your objective... kinda un orky. id rather full bore at the enemy and make them defend thiers. imho the second orks go on defense, they loose. i do agre with only 3 troops being a mistake... i usually take 4 squads of boys, and 2 nobstars. (although that requires 2 warboss) but adding more boyz, even shoota toting foot sloggers could be a big help. as for the remark of deathrollers being useles... ill have to re read the FAQ, but it seems to me, that for 20 points, you paint a bigger bullseye on your hull, and at only 12" move most things should be able to avoid it,or at least keep pace. to me that = useless. again, thats just in my games, im not sure how they have worked in other peoples. expirence dictates tatics 95% of the time. finally, multiple threats with orks is generally a good thing. personally i bring 5 trukks loaded with boys a pair of nob units, (1 on bikes). this usually presents at least 5-6 hard hitting threats, and usually my oponent can only deal with 1-2 of them a turn. to the more threats you can table the better.

also my intended quick reply to dash has turned into a novel, so ill just leave with my mantra: "my expirenece is not yours, therefore dont expect it to translate well to your style or gaming group, but its my 2 cents nonetheless."

Dashofpepper wrote:
OP: Looks like you basically copied my 1850 list / 2k list variants and are running it yourself. Nothing wrong with 15 burnas in a battlewagon.

lol, it was actually the suggestion of a friend to copy your list :3

I see what you mean about breaking up the KFF and 'da boss, maybe I can put some meks in the burna-wagon too (so someone can fix it)

And if I'm seeing this right, you want me to have two mobs of grots?

DarthSpader wrote:

my mantra: "my expirenece is not yours, therefore dont expect it to translate well to your style or gaming group, but its my 2 cents nonetheless."

Well,

There's an easy remedy for this: You bring your ork philosophy to the table to match mine, and we find out who the meaner ork is. Here is what you need to know about Vassal to pick it up so that we can play. *laughing* No better way of finding out who's advice is better about orks than to pit them against each other.

@OP: Don't give up burnas for meks. Burnas are too awesome. And I wasn't suggesting you to have two mobs of gretchin - one is fine.

There is some personal preference that goes into every list; if you split your deffkoptas into multiple units, pick the burnas....you're in good shape. Hell, who cares about objectives when you can table your opponent right?