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I recently got into Fantasy from 40k and chose Lizardmen. After many hours of reading lists and threads on Lizardmen I concluded that Stegadons and Terradons were quite good and useful.

I've only played a few games with the contents of the starter Lizardmen force but I recently bought 2 boxes of Stegadons and 4 blisters of Terradons to start to increase my force to 2000 points.

Now monsters cannot break ranks and get much less attacks and many people are saying Stegadons have been terror-nerfed. Terradons are much less reliable and are more of an annoyance than anything else than before. Stegadons now cannot break ranks and are likely to get all their skinks killed in the return fire.

Considering getting these goodies was a little over $110 I'm wondering if I should dump them now on ebay than be stuck with useless Stegadons and Terradons.

Someone's gonna have to explain to me how a critter that can literally step on a R&F troop and crush them into the turf... can no longer break ranks.

Don't do that until 8th edition.

Keep in mind 8th is still a month or so away, you can still play with them now, and NOTHING will be any more useless than it is now until July 10th.

YES but my question is WILL it become useless on July 10th?

I am just getting into WHFB and painting everything will take at least 2 months. I'm thinking of dumping Lizardmen right now and switching to Empire or some other faction that will get ridiculously powerful due to buffs to firelines and shooting.

So your just a TFG type of guy? You switch to whatever army is the most powerful?

THEY ARE RUMORS, not concrete. I mean really, its not hard to understand at all.

No, I am not TFG but I really hope they don't become useless.

I don't play Warhammer Fantasy, but I can say this: The best way to check an army's power is through playtesting. Lots and lots of playtesting from different people. Wait until the new edition comes out and you have some time to playtest.

I just bought a stegadon. I too am in the 'what is the point' basket.

Chariots at lest can be mass bought and spam charged.

It seems odd to use them as small unit killers.

SURELY they realised they would be THE SUK! early on in playtesting 8th ed and have some way to help them.
They did it for WOTR and monsters, I only hope they do it for WHFB.

Untill you actually read the rulebook you won't know!

As said, they are just rumours. though while having truth behind them they can not be 100% accurate.

i think stegadons would be awesome with 7-17 str 5 attacks on the charge ;D (assuming they get the stomping attacks as stated in rumour ^_^)

They still have an amazing toughness and high wounds which for me is hard to deal with. elves just love being Str 3.

Is it possible for stegadons to be not worth it? They might not be quite as good as now... but right now, they're nearly unstoppable in certain roles! (unless you shoot the skinks off the top...)

I only got in a few games with lizzies before switching to wood elves- but I never had an opportunity to break ranks with my stegadons. It seems like they usually will hit from the front, unless your opponent is putting himself out of position or you gain a tactical advantage? I know it's not always true, but I don't think breaking ranks is the main purpose of a stegadon...

And the lessening of terror is hurting all big baddies, not just stegadons! It won't make them useless, but it will give ranked infantry a better chance.

Currently stegadons, particularly engines of the gods are ridiculously broken mostly because they can be spammed. They really aren't losing too much in the 8th edition transition except for the ability to break ranks which is hitting everyone pretty hard, notably cavalry which has to have 7 additional models to break ranks now. Regardless they are still T6 with a good armor save, do impact hits and have a variety of different load outs. From what I've heard they aren't comparatively worst than before.

The people who are getting really screwed are the guys that decided to run more than 1 engine of the gods since now with the percentage system it's much harder to fit them in, which is a good thing.

Here's some info on stegadons, from this post in the rumors thread.

X1Scotch1X wrote:Stegadons are awesome now. They have the Chariot rule as well as Thunderous Stomp. So they get impact hits for being a chariot. Then the Stegadons attacks. Then Thunderous Stomp which is always strike last but automatically hitting D6 attacks at the monsters strength. This can only be done to infantry sized creatures.

Kroxigors can use the ability Stomp which is the same as Thunderous stomp but only 1 auto hit instead of D6.

He posts a lot of lizardmen-related rules, since that seems to be the army he plays and what he was looking for in the rulebook.

As always, take rumors with a grain of salt, but it could help alleviate some stegadon worries

You could, yano, use them as charge support to increase active res wounds.. since Lizardmen will very rarely be in a position to be getting the +5 typical combat res bonus, thus putting them in a hole from the get go...

Just because they don't break ranks, doesn't mean that they are worthless. Just means you may have to re-work the way they get used in your daily games.

what the hell is breaking ranks anyway?

gendoikari87 wrote:what the hell is breaking ranks anyway?

If you get into the flank, or rear of a unit, and you meet a certain set of restrictions, that units rank bonus no longer counts towards total combat resolution any more.

You've literally taken away their rank bonus due to the charge.

???? so you negate a whopping 3 total CR in an army that relies on damage for CR and cold blooded when not beating CR? doesn't sound like a big loss to me.

the majority of the loss, is that one on one, the stegadon goes from an instant winner to a consistant loser when dealing with a +5 cr.

Couple that with a cold blooded leadership of only 5 and it becomes a pretty serious problem for having a unit take on other units by itself. Most people depend on the fact that the unit has a very small footprint and can therefore get into places to break ranks that a RnF unit couldn't.

That having been said. As combat support its fine.

who uses just a steg? you have to have an anvil to use a hammer on?

In this edition, the Steg in the flank is all you need.

It's an economy of force thing. All of the good/great players use just a steg because it's all you need.

Why commit 2 units to a job when one will do it just fine?

That's why people are so up in arms about this potential situation. Some of the top tier tactics that the best players use are being stripped away from us wholesale.

Surely we'll bounce back and find new tactics, but small footpring unit manipulation is a hallmark of 6th and 7th e top tier players.

But everyone is going to be under thesame stipulations so we as a whole won't be worse off then everyone else so there will be not net loss

That all depends if the replacement strategy is as good as the former.

not really because everyone will be under the same restrictions. Besides isn't it a general consensus that stegs are OP right now? wouldn't it be better to be balanced so that we can still win, and when we do, it's asserted to skill not "oh he used the OP army list".

That all depends if who you are facing's army has to adhere to that specific restriction and if it affects him more than you, or vice versa.

So....

gendoikari87 wrote:But everyone is going to be under thesame stipulations so we as a whole won't be worse off then everyone else so there will be not net loss

The more likely you are to have multiple small foot print rank breakers in your army (Beastmen, Lizardmen, Chaos...) The more likely this is to adversely, negatively affect you.

The more elite your units are that rely on 1v1 type combat and being outnumbered but relying superior skill to win (Elves, Dwarfs) The more likely this is to adversely Negatively affect you.

The more likely you are to have a lot of craptastic units and reduncancy, the more likely this is to profoundly impact you in a positive manner. (pretty much all the rest)

This is not a net zero impact because not all armies are equal when considering overarching design philosophy.

So hitting a unit in the flank with a monster and winning combat is a top tier tactic???

Wow i didnt know i was a top tier player......

Top tier players will adjust and change tactics and still win.

Low tier players will blame the new rulebook taking away their stupid proof tactic on why they dont win anymore.

ShivanAngel wrote:So hitting a unit in the flank with a monster and winning combat is a top tier tactic???

Wow i didnt know i was a top tier player......

Top tier players will adjust and change tactics and still win.

Low tier players will blame the new rulebook taking away their stupid proof tactic on why they dont win anymore.

Unless their Army Book is just as much a piece of gak it as it was in 7th, Shivan. Your statement only applies to those who's armies have an equal chance at winning, and aren't at a disadvantage because of their army book.

If they're useless in 8th, keep the models, because when the next Lizardman codex comes out, they'll be awesome.

I have no inside information. I'm just going on the theory that GW rules are a pendulum. One edition, a unit will be worthless, then it will be amazing next, and then toned down again, etc.

Karon wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:So hitting a unit in the flank with a monster and winning combat is a top tier tactic???

Wow i didnt know i was a top tier player......

Top tier players will adjust and change tactics and still win.

Low tier players will blame the new rulebook taking away their stupid proof tactic on why they dont win anymore.

Unless their Army Book is just as much a piece of gak it as it was in 7th, Shivan. Your statement only applies to those who's armies have an equal chance at winning, and aren't at a disadvantage because of their army book.

Lizardmen a piece of gak army in 7th?

uhhhh ok

I wasn't speaking in the specifics of Lizardmen, Shivan.

Ahem... so did anyone check out this post with the info on steggies, and other LM goodness?

I wish some wood elf player would get an equally good read on the new rulebook......