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Hey all, Long time Lurker, First time Poster

So I'm thinking of fielding an all drop pod army as kind of a joke against a friend I'm playing next week. The thing is we usually play on tables cluttered with ruins, but no really impassable terrain. I noticed that in the Deepstriking ruleset, models count difficult terrain (ruins) as dangerous terrain. Which leads me to my question: Do the marines (I'm a SMurf) disembarking out of the drop pods take the dangerous terrain test, or do the actual drop pods take the test?

If the latter, then how do drop pods take that test? If I roll a one, is the drop pod destroyed, along with all its contents, or do i roll on the mishap table? I'm guessing the second, but I'd like to have backup to show my friend.

Thanks for all your input, and if the mighty Gwar! himself deigns to comment on my humble post, I may just pass out from the intensity of the nerdgasm I would have (It's a compliment, haha).

The contents of the pod (if deployed in terrain)and the pod itself takes a check. If the pod fails it loses a weapon (since it's already immobile).

The models disembark the drop pod, so they are not technically the ones deepstriking into difficult terrain. That means they will have to take Difficult Terrain if they want to move in the subsequent movement phase but that is it.

The Drop Pod does not mishap if it hits Difficult Terrain, instead you treat it as Dangerous Terrain since you are a vehicle and since you Deep Struck into Difficult Terrain. A Roll of a 1 does not destroy it, it simply immobilizes it (already immobilized) so it blows off the weapon.

Edit: Please note the above poster is incorrect on the units inside taking dangerous terrain, instead 'all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal' which implies they jump out of the vehicle just like they would of any vehicle moving at cruising speed.

I beg to differ. Codex Space Marine pg 68:

A unit that Deep Strikes via Drop Pod may not assault in the turn that it arrives.

Clearly Both are Deep Striking.

True they deepstrike via the drop pod, but that also means they did not deepstrike into difficult terrain, the pod deepstruck into it. The marines are merely disembarking a vehicle into difficult terrain.

Would you force the passengers of a BA LR that deepstruck into DT, a Valkyrie or any other vehicle to all take Dangerous Terrain tests?

They cannot assault because they disembarked a vehicle moving at cruising speed (and because the rule you pointed out...<-Edit)

No. Models disembarking into the Terrain do NOT take the test, only the Pod does.

So a Mishapped Pod rolling a 1 or 2 only destroys the Pod? Since the troops aren't actually Deep Striking?

They are "arriving via Deep Strike" which is the requirement for taking the DT test.

It says in the drop pod entry (at least in my BA codex) that once the pod has landed all passengers must disembark as normal. Do models disembarking from a vehicle have to take dangerous terrain tests for disembarking into difficult terrain? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

It also says that they are arriving via Deep Strike, which triggers DT tests.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:It also says that they are arriving via Deep Strike, which triggers DT tests.

Yes.

It's a good thing Disembarking doesn't trigger Difficult or Dangerous Terrain tests then isn't it!

Deep Striking does NOT Trigger any form of tests, all Deep Striking does is cause the models to Treat Difficult Terrain as Dangerous as well. (Page 95: Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.)

Only moving though Dangerous Terrain triggers a Dangerous Terrain test (page 14, BRB). Models who disembark do not move, they are simply deployed within 2" of the Access Point/Hull and COUNT AS moving.
They didn't ACTUALLY move so they don't trigger a test, Dangerous or otherwise..

SlaveToDorkness wrote:So a Mishapped Pod rolling a 1 or 2 only destroys the Pod? Since the troops aren't actually Deep Striking?

They are "arriving via Deep Strike" which is the requirement for taking the DT test.

the pod shouldn't, i believe, technically mishap because it reduces the scatter distance in order to avoid terrain (might need correcting on this. plus it CAN scatter off the board, i think)

Models that "enter" Dangerous Terrain take the test. How are they not entering it if they arrive by DS?

From the Deep Strike rules, page 95:
"Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.

In the Movement phase when they arrive, these units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking transport vehicle."


From the Dangerous Terrain rules, page 14:
"Roll a D6 for every model that has entered, left or moved through one or more areas of dangerous terrain during its move."


- Disembarking from the transport takes the place of the units movement.
- Arriving via a deep striking transport is considered to be deep striking.
- Deep Striking into dangerous terrain results in the unit entering the terrain.

Therefore, the models in the terrain have to take a dangerous terrain test.


So yes, both the vehicle and the squad have to test.

Ashtaroth wrote:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:So a Mishapped Pod rolling a 1 or 2 only destroys the Pod? Since the troops aren't actually Deep Striking?

They are "arriving via Deep Strike" which is the requirement for taking the DT test.

the pod shouldn't, i believe, technically mishap because it reduces the scatter distance in order to avoid terrain (might need correcting on this. plus it CAN scatter off the board, i think)

That is only for impassible. They can land in normal terrain.

Ashtaroth wrote:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:So a Mishapped Pod rolling a 1 or 2 only destroys the Pod? Since the troops aren't actually Deep Striking?

They are "arriving via Deep Strike" which is the requirement for taking the DT test.

the pod shouldn't, i believe, technically mishap because it reduces the scatter distance in order to avoid terrain (might need correcting on this. plus it CAN scatter off the board, i think)

Yes a Pod may mishap. Only by scatter off-table, but it CAN happen.

insaniak wrote:From the Deep Strike rules, page 95:
"Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.

In the Movement phase when they arrive, these units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking transport vehicle."


From the Dangerous Terrain rules, page 14:
"Roll a D6 for every model that has entered, left or moved through one or more areas of dangerous terrain during its move."


- Disembarking from the transport takes the place of the units movement.
- Arriving via a deep striking transport is considered to be deep striking.
- Deep Striking into dangerous terrain results in the unit entering the terrain.

Therefore, the models in the terrain have to take a dangerous terrain test.


So yes, both the vehicle and the squad have to test.

Don't the disembarking rules say disembarking units ignore difficult and dangerous terrain for the 2" disembark range?

Arschbombe wrote:Don't the disembarking rules say disembarking units ignore difficult and dangerous terrain for the 2" disembark range?

The GW FAQ just says that a unit that disembarks and moves only has to take one set of tests, the one for entering the terrain, rather than two, one for disembarking into the terrain and one for moving through the terrain.

Insaniak has spelled it out the clearest, for me. I tend to agree with him & Slave to Dorkness that models disembarking into terrain must test.

Arschbombe
I don't see that stipulation anywhere on pg 67 under ''Disembarking'' nor pg 95 under ''Deep Strike...'' [edit] nvm, Solkan has explained it, sorry...

This is kind of rambling, but I wanted to really dig into the rules and see what I could find. I don't really find myself convinced either way on this one, but here are some thoughts of mine.

First, gathered a bunch of quotes:

1. "Similarly, the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying and of the infantry units [...] the unit and the transport will be rolled together and will arrive together [...] a dedicated transport can only be deployed, and consequently can only be kept in reserve, either empty or transporting the unit it was selected with." (main rules pg 94)

2. "Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain." pg95

3. "In the movement phase when they arrive, these units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking transport vehicle." (pg 95)

4. "Drop Pods always enter play using the Deep Strike rules [...] A unit that Deep Strikes via Drop Pod cannot assault in the turn it arrives." (BA codex, probably the same as all the others)


1) says the entire unit is rolled for and arrives together. Seems cut and dry.

2) says specifically "Models arriving via deep strike" which is unclear in light of the previous paragraph in the rule book which describes the whole process of: place a model, roll scatter, and then make concentric rings around it. Why does this make things unclear? Because at no point yet have you placed infantry models on the table. Just the pod. Have we completed the "Deep Strike" manuever, and NOW we disembark? Or is disembarking still part of the deep strike process? Drop Pods MUST disembark, but other transports don't. So I don't think disembarking is, strictly speaking, part of the "Deep Strike" process. It's just affected by it. At least, so far in the rules. But it's hella unclear when exactly Deep Striking starts and stops.

3) This is still unclear. Is a deep-striking unit continuously Deep Striking all through its first movement phase? Or is there a part of the movement phase where Deep Strike is done, and then we move on to the rest of the movement phase and the models have "Deep Struck" and are no longer "Deep Striking?" It also seems to suggest that it's the vehicle doing the Deep Strike, but that the vehicle is still "Deep Striking" when the models inside disembark.

4) Still unclear! It says specifically the Drop Pod enters play by Deep Striking. Well, that part is clear. But then it says "a unit that Deep Strikes via Drop Pod," and unfortunately, via has two similar but distinct meanings. One is "through," as in "a unit that Deep Strikes through (a) Drop Pod," and the other is "using," as in "a unit that Deep Strikes using (a) Drop Pod." Seems to me that if they were going through the drop pod they would still be the ones deep striking, and if they were using it to deep strike, it would be the pod itself that was deep striking. But going either way requires a level of interpretation that I think should generally be discouraged.

So I dunno. Maybe that was all stupid. But it's interesting to me.

What if we mix in the argument about whether to count the doors as terrain or not, and can infantry stand on those when they disembark?

Gwar! wrote:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:It also says that they are arriving via Deep Strike, which triggers DT tests.

Yes.

It's a good thing Disembarking doesn't trigger Difficult or Dangerous Terrain tests then isn't it!

Deep Striking does NOT Trigger any form of tests, all Deep Striking does is cause the models to Treat Difficult Terrain as Dangerous as well. (Page 95: Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.)

Only moving though Dangerous Terrain triggers a Dangerous Terrain test (page 14, BRB). Models who disembark do not move, they are simply deployed within 2" of the Access Point/Hull and COUNT AS moving.
They didn't ACTUALLY move so they don't trigger a test, Dangerous or otherwise..

My rule book says entering, leaving, or moving through triggers. Pretty sure a drop pod landing in the terrain would be considered entering. The only thing i'm not sure about is...is a unit inside a transport considered a model? Does a unit inside a transport moving through dangerous terrain have to take a test for each model in the transport? I'd have to say no...but i'm not exactly clear on if it is.

It's confusing. I was actually thinking about this myself with tyranid spore pods. My line of thinking is slightly different to Insaniaks. The unit inside the transport would be disembarking, not deepstriking. There is a stipulation to stop them from assaulting though (for those of you out there who would like to). Remember the difficult terrain COUNTS AS dangerous only for the deepstriking unit, which would be the pod or spod, not the unit inside.

Of course spods (I think) don't have the stipulation that units disembarking can't move any further or assault. I don't actually have my codex on hand so I may be wrong about that last part. But that would make spodding genestealers very, very viable.

Think of it a little differently - would models disembarking from a deep-striking Land Raider have to take the test? I'd say no to that.

Darkjediben wrote:So I'm thinking of fielding an all drop pod army as kind of a joke against a friend I'm playing next week.

Off topic, but what's the joke?

General_Chaos wrote:

Darkjediben wrote:So I'm thinking of fielding an all drop pod army as kind of a joke against a friend I'm playing next week.

Off topic, but what's the joke?

lol, General Chaos wins.

I reckon the marines don't have to test, only the pod. It's simply a question of "do units disembarking from a transport treat difficult terrain as dangerous terrain?" Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't find anywhere that says that.

By RAW, they do indeed have to test, exactly as insaniak spelled it out. Both the vehicle, whether Drop Pod, Land Raider, whatever, and the unit are considered to be deep striking. This is spelled out in the main rules, in the codex, and in the FAQs (ie Mystics can detect the disembarking unit). So the unit that disembarks has arrived in difficult terrain via Deep strike. That triggers the test. Nuff said.

Of course spods (I think) don't have the stipulation that units disembarking can't move any further or assault.

Spods aren't transports but they do specify you can't move or assault in the turn you arrive. You do not disembark from them (as they are not transports) you are instead simply deployed within 2" of the spod once it has deep struck. So in that case there would definitely be no DT for the "transported" unit.

As to whether this carries over to dro pods is for me still a question.

What we know with certainty to me at least:

The unit has arrived by deep strike.

Deep striking is movement.

Whilst deep striking you treat difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.

What we do not know and this is the real crux for me as flame shift points out is:

Doies the forced disembark occur after or during the deepstrike.

My instinct is that is occurs after but it is certainly not clear either way.

All you have to do is ask yourself a couple of questions.

Did the unit arrive via Deep Strike? Yes or no?

If yes, did the unit finish it's Deep Strike in Difficult Terrain? Yes or no?

If Yes, take the test.

And IMO it applies to spods as well. The unit deploying from the spod still arrived by Deep Strike.

But units inside aren't technically deepstriking, they are disembarking. Nowhere in the rules does it say that units disembarking from a transport (and yes spods are dedicated transports if I recall correctly) into difficult terrain take a dangerous terrain check.

That said, I'm gonna go and check my rulebook to be sure.

And IMO it applies to spods as well. The unit deploying from the spod still arrived by Deep Strike.

But deploying isn't movement...

If yes, did the unit finish it's Deep Strike in Difficult Terrain? Yes or no?

This is the part we can't answer. Did the unit finish its deep strike in difficult terrain? When did its deep strike finish? Before or after it was forced to disembark?

Arriving via drop pod, the drop pod deepstrikes, the models inside are not going to take dangerous terrain if they disembark from it.

Vehicle did the deepstriking and gets all the hassle
The Unit inside does not

Doi