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Please critique this list! This is my first draft if you will, this is the first real list ive ever put together (most of my ork lists were just ripped from websites and slightly modified) so any advice you can give to make it better would greatly be appreciated!
HQ
Logan Grimnar-275
4 Wolf Guard Terminators 132
Razorback with twin linked lascannon - 75
Total 482 points

Ragnar Blackmane-240 (Going with Troop 3)


Troops
Troop 1
10 Grey Hunters 150
Melta- 5
Mark of Wulfen-15
Rhino-35
Total 205

Troop 2
10 Grey Hunters 150
Melta-5
Mark of Wulfen-15
Rhino-35
Total 205

Troop 3 (Squad Ragnar will join)
9 Grey Hunters-135
Mark of Wulfen-15
Rhino-35
Total 185

Heavy Support
5 Long Fangs (includes squad leader)-75
2 Heavy Bolters-10
2 Missile launchers-20
75 Razorback Twin Linked Lascannon
Total 180

So as I see it, I have 4 scoring units with Logan making wolfguard into troops and ive got 2 twin linked lascannons for tank hunting. Also with my Long Fangs I have missle launchers for transport killing and heavy bolters for anti-infantry support. All my grey hunters have mark of the wulfen and a melta good close combat and possibility of taking out nasty vehicles. As said before any advice would be great!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im going to be gone for a little while, so if you have any questions I probably wont be able to anwser them right away. Im going to try and get on at around 10 to 10:30 eastern for a check up and any time in between then and now if I can.

So, I'm not sure if units in Terminator armor can ride in a razorback, although I am fairly sure they can not. Additionally, If they can sit in a razorback, they count as 2 models, so while I'm pretty sure you can take it, they cant ride in it.

Also, think about this- You have 2 75 point razorbacks for tank hunting. Two S9 shot that re-rolls to hit. For what you have there, you could take 2 more long fangs units, potentially armed with rockets all around, giving you 8 S8 shots that can be shot at 4 separate targets. Far more effective tank hunters. AV 14 becomes more of a problem, but you were better at using melta to take it on anyway.

^What this guy says make sense... plus I'd be willing to sell you some missile launchers

Honestly, what you have isn't really a mech list. But I think with some tweaking it can be.

First, in a 1500 point game, you should never field 2 big special characters. Yes, they are really good, but its just a points sink. So just pick one or the other. I tend to stick with Ragnar because he is cheaper and can fit in all of the SW transports, not just land raiders.

Second, I hate splitting fire with my heavy support units. I know that long fangs are able to do so, but I would try and stick with just 1 type of weapon. As stated before, the Missile Launcher is the most versatile heavy weapon that is available to the wolves, so roll with it. It handles horde lists and light armour rather well. Plus the AP3 on the krak can rough up some MEQ's and MC's.

Here is what I would field at 1500.

headquarters:
Ragnar Blackmane - in with the 1st grey hunters unit.

elite:
wolf guard 3, terminator armour 3, combimeltas 3, drop pod
149

troop:
grey hunters 5, meltagun, razorback, tl-lascannon
155

grey hunters 5, meltagun, wolf guard, combimelta, power fist, razorback, tl-lascannon
198

grey hunters 5, meltagun, wolf guard, combimelta, power fist, razorback, tl-lascannon
198

fast attack:
land speeder, multimelta
60

heavy support:
long fangs 6, missile launchers 5, razorback, tl-lascannon
215

long fangs 6, missile launchers 5, razorback, tl-lascannon
215

predator
60

1,490 Total points.
5 TL-lascannons, 10 missile launchers, a multimelta, 3 meltaguns, 3 combimeltas, 4 power weapons, and 2 powerfists...enough to take out just about anything.

All good advice, I feel like I should take Njal because of his anti-pysker and powerful abilities. Also your list seems better than mine lol. Although I dont know if I like the pred without upgrades maybe another land speeder with melta?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright I took your advice and changed a little bit of your list to get

headquarters:
Njal 245

troop:
grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, razorback, tl-lascannon
155

Grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, razorback, tl-lascannon
155

grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, wolf guard, combimelta, power fist, razorback, tl-lascannon
198

grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, wolf guard, combimelta, power fist, razorback, tl-lascannon
198

fast attack:
land speeder, multimelta
60

heavy support:
long fangs 6, missile launchers 5, razorback, tl-lascannon
215

long fangs 6, missile launchers 5, razorback, tl-lascannon
215

1486

6 tl las cannons 10 missle launchers multimelta 4 melta guns (6 counting combi weapons) and a mark of wulfen for all my squads making them pretty nasty in CC, look good? (its basically your list)

Your list looks pretty good and solid...in fact it looks like one of my earliest Space Wolves lists.

The only thing I would suggest is trying to find some points for Njal's Terminator armor...a 245 point unit with no Invulnerable save is never a good idea...

I would give the land-speeder a heavy flamer for two reasons:
1. It gives the unit duality
2. If you get a weapon destroyed, it will still be able to do something.

Aside from that, it looks good. I'm not sure what you'd have to get rid of to give njal terminator armor.

All in all, your list has vastly improved. I still am not particularly a fan of MotW, but to each his own. I love fluff, but sometimes it gets in the way of winning. If you like it, roll with it.

As for the predator, I like to think of it as a cheap but semi-tough distraction. If they leave it alone and bother my other units, they can suck on STR 7 shots. If they gun it down, by all means, leave my other units go for a turn. I look at the Land Speeder in the same light. The only thing the Speeder has over the Predator is that its fast, and has a better weapons selection, but the predator more than makes up for it with armour.

As for the Speeder itself, I agree that it should get another weapon.

Please let us know how this list does for you! I'm sure most of us would like to see how you did with it.

Drop the high price HQ. It's adding nothing to your army that cheaper HQ like just a rune priest and other dudes will add.

If I do take Njal out id probably take more wolf guard or possibly the 60 point pred which seems pretty legit. Ill be sure to post a battle report or revive this thread after some games!

Only thing I can tell from your list is that your WG are illegal. You must have a minimum of 3 to field them. Unless I missed something it looks like you only have 2.

=O good catch, Ill have to fix that up. Ive been thinking of fiddling with it a bit and dropping Njal for normal rune priest and throwing in a pred with heavy bolters


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I felt it made more sense to post this here instead of making another topic. I was thinking of using drop pods and dreads to cause some chaos and also wanted a few more troops to hold objectives with. What I came up with was this:

HQ
Wolf Lord
Terminator armor
Power weapon
Saga of the bear (gives eternal warrior)
175

Rune Priest 100
Wolf Talisman + 5 (nullify spells on squad on a 5+)
Runic Armor +20
125

Elites
Dreadnought 105
Multimelta + 10
Autocannon free
Drop pod +35
150

Dreadnought 105
Multimelta + 10
Autocannon free
Drop pod +35
150

Troops
15x9 grey hunters Rune priest joins this squad
Melta gun +5
Rhino + 35
175

15x8 grey hunters Wolf lord joins this squad
Melta gun +5
Rhino + 35
160

15x9 grey hunters
Melta gun +5
Rhino + 35
175

Heavy Support Long fangs don’t go in drop pod but allows first turn
5 Long Fangs 75 dreadnought deep strike
4 rocket launchers 40
Drop pod + 35
150

Predator 60
Lascannon sponsons 60
120

Predator 60
Lascannon sponsons 60
120

Total 1500

The plan is drop dreads turn one in the thick of the enemy armor. Using multi melta's to destroy heavy vehicles and autocannon if im going after lighter transports. This forces my opponent to either go after my dreads or ignore them and continue taking fire. If they do go for the dreads I can drive up my rhinos and predators possibly popping smoke if I think he has the fire power to shoot at my vehicles. If they're not capable of taking out my transports and dreds Im going to assume they would take care of dreads first and hold of on smoke until turn 2 at which point I set up the gun line and let my predators do what they do best.

Please don't list unit/upgrade costs. just an fyi...

also, only 1 drop pod will come out 1st turn, as per the drop pod assault rules. so read up on that bud.

Actually, as it stands he has 2 Pods coming in first turn as the Long Fangs have a Pod as well as the Dreads.

I'm really not a fan of the Multi-Melta/Autocannons on the Dreadnoughts...it's like you're trying to get too much out of 1 model...keep it simple, makes life easier.

The Lord...deserves a better weapon in my opinion...Thunder Hammer would be more suitable.

Runic Armor...don't bother, use the points for a chooser and other wargear. Runic armor is only good if you intend on him getting shot or punched...neither are a good idea with this guy.

Everything else is well...okay...I think you can make it work, just play it out and tweak it for the best.

You know thats funny, I skipped right past that...probably because I responded at 2am.

Try and stick with the original list as much as possible. the second list isnt too great. Get used to 1 type of play style first.

for sure, ive been getting mixed response on all my lists depending on where ive gone. Im thinking of trying out the first one and if it fails or if I get bored of it stop playing it and switch to the second one and see how that plays.

1 Thing I noticed is you have your wolflord in termy armor riding in a Rhino. You cant do this unfortunatley.

oh damn, I thought you could it just counted as two. Well back to the drawing board.

Crusnik wrote:All good advice, I feel like I should take Njal because of his anti-pysker and powerful abilities. Also your list seems better than mine lol. Although I dont know if I like the pred without upgrades maybe another land speeder with melta?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright I took your advice and changed a little bit of your list to get

headquarters:
Njal 245

troop:
grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, razorback, tl-lascannon
155

Grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, razorback, tl-lascannon
155

grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, wolf guard, combimelta, power fist, razorback, tl-lascannon
198

grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, wolf guard, combimelta, power fist, razorback, tl-lascannon
198

fast attack:
land speeder, multimelta
60

heavy support:
long fangs 6, missile launchers 5, razorback, tl-lascannon
215

long fangs 6, missile launchers 5, razorback, tl-lascannon
215

1486

6 tl las cannons 10 missle launchers multimelta 4 melta guns (6 counting combi weapons) and a mark of wulfen for all my squads making them pretty nasty in CC, look good? (its basically your list)

I liked this list. I think you could perhaps run a wolf lord in regular power armor with one of the packs of G. Hunters. It should be noted, that if you take a rune priest, he would be able to cast his shananigans directly from the razorback. It could be like a drive by shooting. Also, I was glad to see you with 10 missile launchers rather than mixing the packs.

Happy Hunting wolf brother.

Glimpse The Void wrote:

Crusnik wrote:All good advice, I feel like I should take Njal because of his anti-pysker and powerful abilities. Also your list seems better than mine lol. Although I dont know if I like the pred without upgrades maybe another land speeder with melta?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright I took your advice and changed a little bit of your list to get

headquarters:
Njal 245

troop:
grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, razorback, tl-lascannon
155

Grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, razorback, tl-lascannon
155

grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, wolf guard, combimelta, power fist, razorback, tl-lascannon
198

grey hunters 5, meltagun, mark of wulfen, wolf guard, combimelta, power fist, razorback, tl-lascannon
198

fast attack:
land speeder, multimelta
60

heavy support:
long fangs 6, missile launchers 5, razorback, tl-lascannon
215

long fangs 6, missile launchers 5, razorback, tl-lascannon
215

1486

6 tl las cannons 10 missle launchers multimelta 4 melta guns (6 counting combi weapons) and a mark of wulfen for all my squads making them pretty nasty in CC, look good? (its basically your list)

I liked this list. I think you could perhaps run a wolf lord in regular power armor with one of the packs of G. Hunters. It should be noted, that if you take a rune priest, he would be able to cast his shananigans directly from the razorback. It could be like a drive by shooting. Also, I was glad to see you with 10 missile launchers rather than mixing the packs.

Happy Hunting wolf brother.

Razorbacks don't have firing ports, so I don't think a librarian would be able to use psychic powers while inside one.

Ah, I suppose i must have been thinking of the rhino?

yeah the rhino has fire points, I think ill go with my first one. Thanks for all the input!