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Where has it gone? Forget las its all about the bullets.
Questions:
Good or bad?
who still uses it?
why and when was it scrapped?

1: Bad. Solid ammunition takes up more space, weight, and resources to produce than energy for lasbolts.
2: Low-tech worlds, Space Marines.
3: See 1.

Solid ammunition in the Imperium is used a lot more on lower tech worlds and more by civilians, criminal elements. Las-weapons being more the reserve tech of the military. Since energy packs are more efficient than making bullets/shells. With exceptions of course. Also the imperial navy on boarding actions use shotguns that fire monofilament shells so as not to blow holes in windows/walls and cause depressurization. Also bolt-guns by todays standards are more like miniature magazine fed grenade launchers than firearms of our time.

Some regements of IG use autoguns which fire solid rounds. The downsides mentioned I think are as follows;

More wieght
More space taken
Supply issues
They jam alot more oftern than lasguns (do they even jam!?!)

On the upside, the solid amuntion cause bleeding and thus you can cause an enemy to die by bleeding or infection, where lasbolts caturise the wound sealing it so it heals quicker, dosn't shed blood and isn't at risk of infection.

Its also a question of size. The IG fields alot of artillery pieces and heavy weapons throwing shells at the target.
Smaller arms are usually lasguns, but its possible to use autoguns with the stats of the lasgun too.
So personal wargear of the masses has to be standardized and the lasguns and energypacks are standardised by the adeptus munitorum. Thus you get those weapons everywhere. Different weapons would be local variants. Maybe houseguards or PDF use them.

The "Munitorum Manual" is a nice source of available ammo and the correct form to order it.

The majority of civilians likely use "stub" weaponry-- IE, non-caseless solid round weapons, basically like modern firearms. Autoguns are caseless and aren't as common as, say, stub automatics.

Do bolters count as solid ammo?

Take a look at Dark Heresy the RPG game's equipment lists. Solid ammo guns everywhere.

The autogun, once everywhere in 40k, is a solid ammo assault rifle.

The Heavy Stubber is a heavy support machine gun.

The Autocannon is a giant solid ammo gun.

Yep. Bolter shells are quite solid. But bolters are hardly efficient weapons for a standing army of untold billions.

Well, it is easy to produce... and it still kills.

Bolter shells are actually more like tiny self propelled missiles or rockets:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Bolter_Ammunition

I remember the days where the Orks had Bolters too, instead of shootas or whatever you call it :_)

@Melissia: well, efficient or not they are quite used in the game for Imperial forces.

IronChaos wrote:Well, it is easy to produce...

No, it is not. Bolter shells are EXPENSIVE.

Let's check Dark Heresy, which is about the only thing that discusses actual prices.

A standard stubber/autogun round would cost about 1 throne (standard Imperial coinage, probably equivalent to one pound) for twenty bullets. . A standard CIVILIAN boltgun round would cost roughly 16 thrones for a single bullet. Civilian boltgun rounds aren't as effective as military ones, and certainly not as much as Astartes grade ones.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Bolter shells are actually more like tiny self propelled missiles or rockets:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Bolter_Ammunition

That's why I asked if this mini-rockets count as solid ammo. A normal rocket wouldn't, would it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

IronChaos wrote:Well, it is easy to produce...

No, it is not. Bolter shells are EXPENSIVE.

A standard stubber/autogun round would cost about 1 throne (standard Imperial coinage, probably equivalent to one pound) for twenty bullets. A standard CIVILIAN boltgun round would cost roughly 16 thrones for a single bullet. Civilian boltgun rounds aren't as effective as military ones, and certainly not as much as Astartes grade ones.

I think he is talking about solid ammo in general. Like stub guns from Necromunda and the like.

Erasoketa wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Bolter shells are actually more like tiny self propelled missiles or rockets:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Bolter_Ammunition

That's why I asked if this mini-rockets count as solid ammo. A normal rocket wouldn't, would it?

No, I agree, I wouldn't class bolter ammo as solid ammo in the same way. Bolter tech is essentially missile launching.

A lasgun power pack costs 15 thrones, but can be recharged a limitless number of times (as long as you don't throw it in a fire), and depending on the source, it has anywhere from sixty shots per pack to several hundred. And lasguns + power packs are designed specifically to be easy and cheap to produce. The only reason anyone uses autoguns is because lasguns aren't available for whatever reason, or personal preference (They like the kick it gives, like Orks do, or like the rounds ripping flesh, like khornate cultists do).

some solid shot weapons used currently.


Autocannons. 120mm rounds fired at a reletivly high rate of fire.

Assault cannon. a multi-barreled autocannon using slightly smaller caliber rounds, but has a greatly increased rate of fire.


Stubbers. these i imagine are throwbacks to the .50 cals of the 21st millenium.


Civilians use Autoguns and Autopistols. same effectivness as Lasguns in game terms, but ammo is bulkier and can't be replenished in the field.

Grey Templar wrote:some solid shot weapons used currently.


Autocannons. 120mm rounds fired at a reletivly high rate of fire.

Assault cannon. a multi-barreled autocannon using slightly smaller caliber rounds, but has a greatly increased rate of fire.


Stubbers. these i imagine are throwbacks to the .50 cals of the 21st millenium.


Civilians use Autoguns and Autopistols. same effectivness as Lasguns in game terms, but ammo is bulkier and can't be replenished in the field.

120mm! their shells certainly do not look that calibre

OP: if fluff follows GW reasoning then the Imperium did away with most solid round weapons to save on paper work. Autoguns=lasguns Auto pistols=las pistols.

Grey Templar wrote:some solid shot weapons used currently.


Autocannons. 120mm rounds fired at a reletivly high rate of fire.

Assault cannon. a multi-barreled autocannon using slightly smaller caliber rounds, but has a greatly increased rate of fire.


Stubbers. these i imagine are throwbacks to the .50 cals of the 21st millenium.


Civilians use Autoguns and Autopistols. same effectivness as Lasguns in game terms, but ammo is bulkier and can't be replenished in the field.

Nope, Civilians typically use stubbersa nd stub pistols (either stub semi-automatics or stub revolvers). They are like autoguns, but they're more prone to jamming as they aren't caseless.

Melissia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:some solid shot weapons used currently.


Autocannons. 120mm rounds fired at a reletivly high rate of fire.

Assault cannon. a multi-barreled autocannon using slightly smaller caliber rounds, but has a greatly increased rate of fire.


Stubbers. these i imagine are throwbacks to the .50 cals of the 21st millenium.


Civilians use Autoguns and Autopistols. same effectivness as Lasguns in game terms, but ammo is bulkier and can't be replenished in the field.

Nope, Civilians typically use stubbersa nd stub pistols (either stub semi-automatics or stub revolvers). They are like autoguns, but they're more prone to jamming as they aren't caseless.

Nope they use Auto AND Stub weapons.

Civilians use whatever is appropriate to the world they come from...

Yes, but stub weapons are cheaper. If you want to go by what is used, technically there are civilian boltguns, too. And lasguns.

But stub weapons are cheaper and easier to make, and there's a wider variety of them.


Naturally, feudal worlds would be relegated to black powder weapons at most.

Melissia wrote:


Naturally, feudal worlds would be relegated to black powder weapons at most.

Unless it was a feudal world ruled over by a technologically superior governing caste.

You can't really condense the planets in the 40k imperium into such rigid pigeonholes. The basis of the Imperium in all the fluff since the times of Rogue Trader, is that it's so bloody big that virtually any civilisation of humans on a planet you could come up with exist within it as long as they tow the line and heed the orders of Terra.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Melissia wrote:


Naturally, feudal worlds would be relegated to black powder weapons at most.

Unless it was a feudal world ruled over by a technologically superior governing caste.

You can't really condense the planets in the 40k imperium into such rigid pigeonholes. The basis of the Imperium in all the fluff since the times of Rogue Trader, is that it's so bloody big that virtually any civilisation of humans on a planet you could come up with exist within it as long as they tow the line and heed the orders of Terra.

Definitely stompa. Its likely why I still play.

Well Pros: packsmore of a punch Cons: goes by fast.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Melissia wrote:


Naturally, feudal worlds would be relegated to black powder weapons at most.

Unless it was a feudal world ruled over by a technologically superior governing caste.

You can't really condense the planets in the 40k imperium into such rigid pigeonholes. The basis of the Imperium in all the fluff since the times of Rogue Trader, is that it's so bloody big that virtually any civilisation of humans on a planet you could come up with exist within it as long as they tow the line and heed the orders of Terra.

+1 to this. People seem to get so caught up in how to say NO to things that they seem to forget that the whole point of 40K is that you can come up with a reason to say YES to almost any idea. That's why its my favorite fictional universe. Almost anything you can think of exists somewhere in the galaxy.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Melissia wrote:


Naturally, feudal worlds would be relegated to black powder weapons at most.

Unless it was a feudal world ruled over by a technologically superior governing caste.

You can't really condense the planets in the 40k imperium into such rigid pigeonholes. The basis of the Imperium in all the fluff since the times of Rogue Trader, is that it's so bloody big that virtually any civilisation of humans on a planet you could come up with exist within it as long as they tow the line and heed the orders of Terra.

+1 to this. People seem to get so caught up in how to say NO to things that they seem to forget that the whole point of 40K is that you can come up with a reason to say YES to almost any idea. That's why its my favorite fictional universe. Almost anything you can think of exists somewhere in the galaxy.

Greenery and birds have become all the rage amongst the nobility of the Salwal sector, in response the entire 20 billion population of the planet Buwal as been turned over to the production of Pink Lawn Flamingos and AstroTurf in order to meet the demand. Life there is actually somewhat easier there than on other industrial worlds, as the production of these products puts out relatively low pollution. There is one major threat they must deal with, however. The entire southern continent of the planet is undeveloped due to being overrun with an aggressive species of giant fire-breathing ducks. The planet has a slightly wobbly axis and for 3 months every 5 years the climate shifts slightly and the birds migrate. At that time great terror spreads through the cities as feathered bodies blot out the sun, deafening quacking fills the air and huge gouts of flame burn millions alive.

Chongara wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Melissia wrote:


Naturally, feudal worlds would be relegated to black powder weapons at most.

Unless it was a feudal world ruled over by a technologically superior governing caste.

You can't really condense the planets in the 40k imperium into such rigid pigeonholes. The basis of the Imperium in all the fluff since the times of Rogue Trader, is that it's so bloody big that virtually any civilisation of humans on a planet you could come up with exist within it as long as they tow the line and heed the orders of Terra.

+1 to this. People seem to get so caught up in how to say NO to things that they seem to forget that the whole point of 40K is that you can come up with a reason to say YES to almost any idea. That's why its my favorite fictional universe. Almost anything you can think of exists somewhere in the galaxy.

Greenery and birds have become all the rage amongst the nobility of the Salwal sector, in response the entire 20 billion population of the planet Buwal as been turned over to the production of Pink Lawn Flamingos and AstroTurf in order to meet the demand. Life there is actually somewhat easier there than on other industrial worlds, as the production of these products puts out relatively low pollution. There is one major threat they must deal with, however. The entire southern continent of the planet is undeveloped due to being overrun with an aggressive species of giant fire-breathing ducks. The planet has a slightly wobbly axis and for 3 months every 5 years the climate shifts slightly and the birds migrate. At that time great terror spreads through the cities as feathered bodies blot out the sun, deafening quacking fills the air and huge gouts of flame burn millions alive.

And that is only marginally less ridiculous than this...



So, sure, have your fire breathing giant ducks on the plastic flamingo forgeworld and I'll have the space vikings with wolverine claws riding giant obese cats.

Chongara wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Melissia wrote:


Naturally, feudal worlds would be relegated to black powder weapons at most.

Unless it was a feudal world ruled over by a technologically superior governing caste.

You can't really condense the planets in the 40k imperium into such rigid pigeonholes. The basis of the Imperium in all the fluff since the times of Rogue Trader, is that it's so bloody big that virtually any civilisation of humans on a planet you could come up with exist within it as long as they tow the line and heed the orders of Terra.

+1 to this. People seem to get so caught up in how to say NO to things that they seem to forget that the whole point of 40K is that you can come up with a reason to say YES to almost any idea. That's why its my favorite fictional universe. Almost anything you can think of exists somewhere in the galaxy.

Greenery and birds have become all the rage amongst the nobility of the Salwal sector, in response the entire 20 billion population of the planet Buwal as been turned over to the production of Pink Lawn Flamingos and AstroTurf in order to meet the demand. Life there is actually somewhat easier there than on other industrial worlds, as the production of these products puts out relatively low pollution. There is one major threat they must deal with, however. The entire southern continent of the planet is undeveloped due to being overrun with an aggressive species of giant fire-breathing ducks. The planet has a slightly wobbly axis and for 3 months every 5 years the climate shifts slightly and the birds migrate. At that time great terror spreads through the cities as feathered bodies blot out the sun, deafening quacking fills the air and huge gouts of flame burn millions alive.

Well, some Forge World has to make the Plastic Pink Flamingos!

Solid rounds:Bad to be hit by as there is more chance of bleeding to death
Non-Solid rounds:Good for siege situations ammo easy to store and re-supply also reletively non-volitile