Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

what are good tactics to use when fielding a deceiver in a necron army?

As a necron player, i feel that the nightbringer is the better c'tan to use, as the lightning arc 24" range Str9 AP2 Assault 1, is excellent at shooting at MCs and tanks. to me the deciever is a bit useless and a waste of points, he can't do much, i'm afraid. Thanks for asking!

use the Nightbringer as a Proxy

"Thats not the Nightbringer it the Deciever, He's Decieving you into thinking he's the Nightbringer"






you use him to pull units away from the rest of your army. he assaults the rear of an enemy unit, forces them to Pile in away from your other units, he then leaves in the enemies assault phase(after killing a few in your assault phase of course)

he can redeploy your entire army potentially. or at least 1 unit. going first? did your opponent put his Lootas in a Perfect position to blast your warriors on his first turn? move them.

He isn't too shabby in CC either. No saves may be taken against his Str9 attacks AND he gets 2d6 penetration aganst vehicles.

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:As a necron player, i feel that the nightbringer is the better c'tan to use, as the lightning arc 24" range Str9 AP2 Assault 1, is excellent at shooting at MCs and tanks. to me the deciever is a bit useless and a waste of points, he can't do much, i'm afraid. Thanks for asking!

i would if it weren't for the fact that my local gaming store hosts an 1850 pt tournament were the nightbringer would be a 5th of my army in point value.

I don't play Necrons, though the Deciever is much better than the Nightbringer, don't listen to YmeLoc, I think he is delusional!

Since that doesn't help...

Grey Templar's advice is pretty sound.

I would take both...If it is ever allowed...

you can only take 1(because the Nightbringer would eat the Deciever)

From what I've seen, and that is only two "competitive" necron lists, the Deceiver is the stronger of the two. T8 means S4 cant touch him, limiting the possibility of a torrent of fire taking him down, plus a 4+ invuln. save. Nasty.

Ive seen him best used in combo with a monolith, as it hides him till he is close enough to assault something that is too squishy to hurt him. He can walk through most units easily, and jump out of unfavorable combats.

Elnicko5 wrote:Ive seen him best used in combo with a monolith, as it hides him till he is close enough to assault something that is too squishy to hurt him.

tht works? sounds really easy to outmaneuver to me. guess i have to see it in person to understand.

Check out http://saimhann.blogspot.com/
I vaguely recall seeing Deciever tactics by fritz, but i know there are Necron Tactics.

Emporer Penguin wrote:

Elnicko5 wrote:Ive seen him best used in combo with a monolith, as it hides him till he is close enough to assault something that is too squishy to hurt him.

tht works? sounds really easy to outmaneuver to me. guess i have to see it in person to understand.

Well, it works. You really don't have to see it in person to understand. It is an AV 14 living metal wall preventing long range anti-tank from targeting your monstrous creature. You are betting that the monolith can absorb the damage and not go down, meanwhile protecting your Deceiver from the only thing that is really a threat to it. You can maneuver all you like, weapons that will do the most damage, like an auto-cannon or heavy bolter, will be heavy 2 or 3. Tanks may be able to get a shot at the Deceiver, but he has 4 wounds IIRC. Players can maneuver away, but running away has never been a sound battle plan.

The one Necron player I faced tried to roll up my flank with this combo, forcing me to run to one side of the board or watch as most of my army was unable to scratch the frekking thing. He had an improvised firing squad set up on that side of the board with squads of warriors, a rez orb lord, and, I think, Heavy destroyers. Granted I was playing a kan wall list, so less than optimal maneuverability, but Ive seen the same list chew up a mech SW list.

I think it comes down to this- in every game there comes a point where maneuvering is no longer a factor, and something needs to be held, or taken. the Deceiver-monolith combo is built for this, it contests objectives like no other unit(s). Little in the game can beat the Deceiver in combat, and it can leave combat before blows are struck, so it can choose to avoid those combats it can not win. The monolith, aside from protecting the Deceiver, is not too shabby in so far as its shooting ability. In straight annihilation the combo loses some of its appeal, but a clever general should be able to make it work for him.

Aside from this, there are other reasons this combo works fairly well-
The monolith can teleport units in reinforcing a given side, and gives a second chance at WBB rolls- always a good thing to have.
The Deceiver special rule that lets him redeploy a unit- to bait and switch in dawn of war scenarios.

If any of this is appealing to you, give the combo a go. Like I said there is a guy who runs the combo, and it works well enough for him.

Hit and Run makes the Deciever superior. It greatly increases his mobility and prevents him from being tied down, plus enabling him to jump from target to higher-value target or allowing you to shoot what he was fighting and recharge.

Lucky LD fails and redeployment is just icing. Etheric Tempest is less dependable, his shooting attack is meh, he's I 4, and Gaze of Death isn't so great.

Both have to play counterassault, intercepting units moving to assault your vulnerable warriors. They aren't fast enough for anything else.

Grey Templar wrote:
No saves may be taken against his Str9 attacks AND he gets 2d6 penetration aganst vehicles.

The deciever does not carry weapons. Strange, I know, like Tau markerlights, improves something else but can't do that much on its own. Not in all ways I admit.

Elnicko5 wrote:
T8 means S4 cant touch him, limiting the possibility of a torrent of fire taking him down, plus a 4+ invuln. save. Nasty.

Both C'tan have Toughness 8 and 4+ invulnerable saves!

what does him not having any weapons have to do with him being Str9 and ignoring all saves?

the scyth that the Nightbringer has is stated as being purly decorative.

epic fail typo from GW. It says it is purely for show by the weapons section on its stats page, but below, it has the stats of an Assault weapon. lol!

it simply says that the nightbringer may channel "through his scyth" the Lightining arc.

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:epic fail read from YmeLocSquirrel. It isn't actually a weapon! lol!

Edited some junk, all the same. Please, look stuff up before spewing hate on games workshop, the company that produces your game...

i know it isn't a weapon, and it can only be used in the shooting phase, but it does have the stats of a 'technical weapon'. I can't really put this any other way, but it does technically have weapon stats, even though that weapon is definitely not WYSIWYG based.

There's also the Deceiver+Pariahs+Lord w/ Nightmare Shroud combination that's been bandied about. Honestly, I usually don't run C'Tan since that's another unit and half of Destroyers I could field, but my boy loves taking the Nightbringer.

Gavin, one of these days I'll find a way to make that unholy trinity work...the big problem is that if you get to the point where you're taking even 144 points' worth of Pariahs (can you take 4? I forget), that's 3 destroyers you can't take, or a similar asset denial. And in taking that unholy trinity, I'd want to use a Monolith in the way that Elnicko5 describes. This makes playing with the 12" Soulless radius/Deceive attack difficult. If your Pariahs stand Tall And Proud without a guardian Monolith keeping them far away from the target at all times, you have more leeway with that trick, but the side effect is that they'll get vaporized, even with clever screening. Taking more Pariahs to alleviate the problem becomes hellaciously expensive (almost as expensive as, uh, a Monolith ). And all that expense is points not going into Destroyers. (Or converted Immortals. Thanks for that guide!)

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:
The deciever does not carry weapons. Strange, I know, like Tau markerlights, improves something else but can't do that much on its own. Not in all ways I admit.

He reforms his body into pointy bits (Necrodermis). And since when could giant monsters NOT club things with their fists, especially when they get a strong attack value? (Wraithlords without Wraithswords can still hit things at Str10 in close combat.)

He can consolidate 2d6 any enemy assault phase. It's amazing and he is extremely fast because of it. can dread while running ect. He's a fast C'tan, which is amazing.

he can consolodate only if hes in close combat, though.

Con Carne wrote:

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:
The deciever does not carry weapons. Strange, I know, like Tau markerlights, improves something else but can't do that much on its own. Not in all ways I admit.

He reforms his body into pointy bits (Necrodermis). And since when could giant monsters NOT club things with their fists, especially when they get a strong attack value? (Wraithlords without Wraithswords can still hit things at Str10 in close combat.)

And since when was a fist called a weapon? See, I never thought fist began with a w, even when I was young. The necrodermis prevents all types of knifes and swords from wounding the C'tan (any) even warscythe equivalent phase blades. Even instant death from a wraithcannon, only inflicts 1 wound without the Invulnerable saving throw. And the necrodermis D6" (D6 result = radius in inches around the C'tan) ranged S6 weapon if it dies? Very unlikely, so all the necrodermis does, is protect the C'tan, not fight for it. Come on guys, a god with 5 Wounds, and an AP2 wraithcannon can hardly do nothing.

Anyways, you can take 4 Pariahs in a unit

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:
And since when was a fist called a weapon?

I notice that Scarab Swarm bases do not have weapons ("Weapons: None." Source: page 19 of Necron Codex, second printing). Does this mean that they cannot attack, even if you give them disruption fields?

If you don't think that they can attack in close combat as a result, I'll try argument 2.

The Deceiver's profile states that he carries no weapons. Mainly because his body is a weapon. This is in the rules of the Codex.

"In addition, a C'Tan can reshape its necrodermis (see below) at will to form blades and spikes. Its close combat attacks therefore ignore invulnerable saving throws." (emphasis mine, source: page 27 of Necron Codex, second printing)

The Codex acknowledges 1) that he hits people with pointy things in close combat (giving him a weapon), and 2) he actually has close combat attacks.

Also, out of curiousity, AT WHAT POINT did you think that the rule above meant that:

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:The necrodermis prevents all types of knifes and swords from wounding the C'tan (any) even warscythe equivalent phase blades.

...Right then...Inquisitor_Syphonius, do you have any red pills I could take?

Con Carne wrote:
Also, out of curiousity, AT WHAT POINT did you think that the rule above meant that:

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:
The necrodermis prevents all types of knifes and swords from wounding the C'tan (any) even warscythe equivalent phase blades.

The Codex states that:

If a sword or knife strikes a C'tan it will inflict no wounds and will be absorbed into the necrodermis, disarming the attacker.

the codex actually says "If a C'tan phase blade or knife hits the C'tan it does no wounds and is absorbed into the Necrodermis"

the Necrodermis doesn't disarm every attacker, it only disarms those with C'tan Phase blades.

There are two keywords you're missing from that, "c'tan phase...."

"If a C'tan phase sword or knife strikes a C'tan...."

Strange why it doesn't say those two words in my codex. Oh well, carry on.

its seems like your codex is full of typos. If I were you I would hold on to it, maybe I will become valuable one day....or maybe you should learn to read the codex thuroughly before you start posting nonsense

who else can't wait for a new necron codex? all these 4th to 5th edition transitions in the codex are starting to grate on my nerves.