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So, I decided that I needed a chaos lord on a dragon in my life. I began working on the whole army around him and now it seems that the next incarnation of the game will have a cap on characters that will prevent him from being fielded. I am so bummed about this possibility, as I never even got a chance to play it.

But you could still play 7th with firends if you wanted. The only places that won't really give you an option at all are tournaments. Then eventually you can build up the army enough to field him with 8th's rules.

This thread also fits in more with the general WHFB forum then here.

Moving to a more appropriate section

What is keeping your Lord from being played? Lord + Dragon (with no upgrades) is 570 which will fit in a 2280 game. GW is pushing 3000 as the new standard - 750 points for lords should give you plenty of points for magic gear.

RanTheCid wrote:What is keeping your Lord from being played? Lord + Dragon (with no upgrades) is 570 which will fit in a 2280 game. GW is pushing 3000 as the new standard - 750 points for lords should give you plenty of points for magic gear.

While 3000 is being pushed in stores, many players are still going to play only 2K-2.25 games. Just because the new edition encourages an extra 750-1000pts doesn't mean most players will shell out the $100+ USD for each of their armies (those below that point level, anyways).

There's also the problem that a Dragon Lord is going to be much less effective now than it would be last edition (seeing as it cannot negate ranks or get a flank bonus, and if it hits the front now the enemy unit is stubborn). No Terror-bombing either.

Minsc wrote:
There's also the problem that a Dragon Lord is going to be much less effective now than it would be last edition (seeing as it cannot negate ranks or get a flank bonus, and if it hits the front now the enemy unit is stubborn). No Terror-bombing either.

Too bad - a Chaos Lord on Dragon has been on my modeling wish list for a while now. Maybe the rules will swing back in favor of the Lord/Dragon combo in 9th... it's only 4-5 years away.

Theres nothing stopping you from simply building it for the modeling aspect rather than the gamig if you don't like how the rules effect it.

Minsc wrote:
There's also the problem that a Dragon Lord is going to be much less effective now than it would be last edition (seeing as it cannot negate ranks or get a flank bonus, and if it hits the front now the enemy unit is stubborn). No Terror-bombing either.

And breath weapons might only fire once per game (though theoretically the chaos one can fire each once, though who knows without the errata), though they have no partials. And there's apparently going to be an asston of shooting too, even if magic won't be quite so hyper as now (maybe?). Who knows if beast cowers is even still in!

IMO I'm happy to see dragons get the hell out of 2000-2250 games, as well as the highest end of special characters and greater demons. There are some things that, while totally rad models and fantasy icons, aren't that fun to face in games where you aren't running an army with cannons or bolt throwers

The solutions to the 25% cap keeping out your dragon lord are pretty simply though. 1) Play a legal army that doesn't lean upon a dragon to work; or 2) Ask your opponent if s/he wouldn't mind if you took the awesome dragon lord you've put hours of time into and is a sight to behold on the table. You might suggest that you be able to modify the lord % up to whatever you need to run the critter, perhaps along with a equal decrease in your hero cap. Say, 30% lord (which I think buys about the biggest chaos dragon lord you can @ 2250) but only 20% hero. Particularly with the changes to dragon effectiveness I wouldn't have a problem with this - and you might keep in mind that I don't like dragons yet have no problem being flexible.

For tournaments, you might have to keep your eyes out for ones with larger points sizes or with adjusted points caps. I think it'll happen, there are a LOT of cheesy gits out there who like their black and star dragons ...

- Salvage

I think you could find a way to run him for 2500 points, right? That's not bad... I'm also a little bound at 2250 (two treeman also cost 570 points, just like your dragon). Since a lot of people will be feeling this, I think two things could happen:

1) Less big baddies in smaller games (not a bad thing!)

2) People being more likely to play a slightly larger game, like 2500

Either one's not bad, imho . So you can still use this puppy!!!

I'm pumped about the new charecter changes, TK don't care about the artificial limitation put on magic (always 2d6 PD) because they don't interact with PD in any way anyway (I suppose thay can channel... Whoopity do) and, in nerfing everyone else's magic, and buffing cheap/numerous Heros means most players will write less magic defence into there armies. When the living get nerfed, bored, and wander away, the ancient tomb kings will rise and pick up the slack.

Also, empire always filled up their slots, but never used all that many points, now I can take a 125 pt BSB all I want.

It's definatly helpful to remember that between friends, exceptions can be be made from time to time. In response to those who say just to play larger games, that takes a long time to set up, play, and break down. With a baby at home, my gaming time is at a premium as this is not as easy as it once was.

And at your tomb kings, You don't think it will have a big effect when you find yourself unable to take as many Liche Priest as you did before?

what are you talking about, a king costing aprox. 250 (300 with chairiot) leaves room to take
Hirophant w/cloak of dunes-165
priest w/jar of manditory-ness-140
Priest w/Casket-280
Priest w/collar of shapesh-140
or even just six priests and a High priest, if you feel like having the most casting of any army in the new rules, but I wanted to give a balanced selection that would actually be usefull. (TK magic, at some point, becomes oversaturated) Either would be an improvement over the current rules.

If someone wanted to use a dragon in a 2000 pt game, I would say, "awesome dragon, I like the paint job" and roll with it. I suppose we are just nice people down here (at least our fantasy players =P )

If you really NEED a dragon or eight, play HE, because apparently they just flat out ignore all army comp restrictions... meaning that they could take nothing but three star dragon lords and a dragon mage or two.

I can still manage to make a decent Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon

Been wanting a Zombie Dragon since I read the Drizz't Do'urden books with the Artemis and Jarlaxle storyline about the Badlands.

Get a hold of the ghost king if dracolich are your kind of thing. I loved the book, and Salvatore turns things upside down for driZt and his friends. I've no clue where he'll take the story from there, but I'm eager to see.

Oh yeah, man, I'm following the Drizz't books intently, just waiting for his latest one to come out in paperback ($34 for a hardcover my ass)

Audible.com is $15 bucks a month and lets me pick a new title every month. I spend about an hour a day commuting to work and It's been genius for me.