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Along with the semifinal scenarios, GW has also posted the list of qualifiers from the preliminary rounds (clickety click).

After checking to make sure I was on that list, I discovered something that I found pretty irritating: one of the local venues in my area that hosted the preliminary round didn't actually hold the tournament--yet they had two "winners" listed.

To give a little background, the venue in question is pretty lousy for 40k. Indifferent staff, lack of decent knowledge, no real player base, etc, etc. As such, they have no real turnout for 40k tournaments in general. One of the two "winners" signed up for the preliminaries at this location because of this reputation (with the idea being that he'd have better odds of finishing in the top 3).

On the day of the tournament, he was the only person who showed up...and he "won" as a result. I can personally verify that he didn't play on that day, because he came over to my store (where rednekgunner & I were playing) to watch.

As far as the second person from that location, I don't really know. Could be that two players showed up, or that he showed up late, or that the owners over at the crappy store decided to give one of their locals a free ticket. I really have no idea.

While it's not either of these guys fault that the tournament didn't happen... neither one of them actually earned their spot in the Semi's.

What are your thoughts on this?

So what...Its not their fault no one showed for the tournement there.

If they arent worth a gak then they will be knocked out in the semi's. If they win in the semi's then they would have won in the first round

While gakky, it's the only appropriate way to manage the system.

If GW listed a location and hosted a tournament there, whether the "only" attendee(s) were there by hook or by crook, it would screw them right in the face ...

So, kinda gakky, but a necessary evil to prevent greater injustice, as it were.

As long as the guy doesn't brag about winning his ticket, there's not much you can do. If I'd known, I would have gone to this location for 5 minutes since my wife's birthday was the same day as the prelims and got my ticket. *shrug*

The only sad part, Catpeeler, since we both know of this particular guy, is that he thinks he's done something to make the semis, will go to the next round and get tabled 3 times while ruining the day of anyone he faces through his horrible play. I certainly hope he brings his Nazi-themed army (not ironically, mind you) to complete the douchebag tour de force!

A store here held a "secret" one by telling everyone that they weren't holding it. So we got the other store to host and had 16 players signed up. Then we had a few drops the day of reducing our number to 14 and the other store had 4 people playing in their own little tournament so the owner could make sure the people that supported his store got to go to the semi-finals. Typical small town drama.

dereksatkinson wrote:A store here held a "secret" one by telling everyone that they weren't holding it. So we got the other store to host and had 16 players signed up. Then we had a few drops the day of reducing our number to 14 and the other store had 4 people playing in their own little tournament so the owner could make sure the people that supported his store got to go to the semi-finals. Typical small town drama.

Really, what can you do, unless the Ard Boyz organizers demand minimum attendance for qualifiers? Really, they could do a percentage, such as 1 semi-finalist per 4 players (or 5 players or whatever), which would balance out those places who have 6 man tourneys versus those that have 20 man tourneys.

From the looks of it he isn't the only one to get a pass... at least 3 places are only sending one person to the semis.

In my opinion, I'd mandate at least 6 players to validate a preliminary round. That way, no spot is guaranteed.

Handing out free tickets--and prize support--for simply showing up? Without even having to play?

Weak sauce, I say.

CatPeeler wrote:In my opinion, I'd mandate at least 6 players to validate a preliminary round. That way, no spot is guaranteed.

Handing out free tickets--and prize support--for simply showing up? Without even having to play?

Weak sauce, I say.

Sure, you are assuming GW cares. I just want to know, if one guy shows up, does he get all prizes for 1-2-3 or just first prize? That would be a pretty sweet deal.

Catpeeler.

I don't think they can punish the people who showed up. If anything, they should simply not let those store that didn't have adequate turnouts host next year. I'd also up the cutoff at 8 for it to be a legit tournament.

dereksatkinson wrote:Catpeeler.

I don't think they can punish the people who showed up. If anything, they should simply not let those store that didn't have adequate turnouts host next year. I'd also up the cutoff at 8 for it to be a legit tournament.

I wouldn't even be annoyed if they had actually played the games. That's what kills it, for me.

Three people show up for the tourney? Sweet deal for them. They can relax and have three fun games without any stress. If the figures don't even come out of the case, though, that's where I draw the line...

CatPeeler wrote:

dereksatkinson wrote:Catpeeler.

I don't think they can punish the people who showed up. If anything, they should simply not let those store that didn't have adequate turnouts host next year. I'd also up the cutoff at 8 for it to be a legit tournament.

I wouldn't even be annoyed if they had actually played the games. That's what kills it, for me.

Three people show up for the tourney? Sweet deal for them. They can relax and have three fun games without any stress. If the figures don't even come out of the case, though, that's where I draw the line...

good point.. They need to have some standards

CatPeeler wrote:In my opinion, I'd mandate at least 6 players to validate a preliminary round. That way, no spot is guaranteed.

Handing out free tickets--and prize support--for simply showing up? Without even having to play?

Weak sauce, I say.

Yea, totally. Then people could drive 2 hours to a store only to find out not enough people showed up and they are now screwed out of any shot at moving on.

Seriously, why does it matter in the least? Does it hurt you in some way that someone got a free ticket?
If he sucks, he won't do well in the semi's and if he is good he would have won the prelims anyways.

It sounds like you are just bitching for the heck of it.

I'm not on the list and neither is the store I qualified at. I guess they didn't send in the results. Am I screwed now?

I would call the store, and check with them.

Its just another symptom of having independent stores run national events with no oversight.. Happens every year, atleast this year they posted winners so you cant just say "Uh I got 3rd in store XXX so I can play now!"

You're *supposed* to have your certificates and eveything. Does this mean then people who score 4th cant enter if someone drops due to them not being on the list nor having a certificate? I really dont think they should since they didnt even qualify.. Some stores didnt even send in the correct information at all.. Im seeing people who got 4th and 5th actually get 1st and 2nd.. with the 5th place guy getting 1st, 4th place getting 2nd and 3rd place getting 3rd

Timmah wrote:Seriously, why does it matter in the least? Does it hurt you in some way that someone got a free ticket?
If he sucks, he won't do well in the semi's and if he is good he would have won the prelims anyways.

It sounds like you are just bitching for the heck of it.

Like I said, I'd have no problem with it if they'd actually played the games. Free tickets to an event where participation is earned subverts the whole process.

Timmah wrote:Yea, totally. Then people could drive 2 hours to a store only to find out not enough people showed up and they are now screwed out of any shot at moving on.

*dials imaginary store*
Me: Hi. I'm calling about the 40K Ard Boyz tournament. Is it on for tomorrow?
Store: Sorry, we don't have enough players to qualify.
Me: Thanks, I'll go somewhere else. I'm glad I'm not a tool who drives places without bothering to know what I'm doing.
Store: Me, too! Happy Kwanzaa!
Me: And to you, as well, fine sir!
*hangs up phone and goes to other store*

Timmah wrote:Seriously, why does it matter in the least? Does it hurt you in some way that someone got a free ticket?
If he sucks, he won't do well in the semi's and if he is good he would have won the prelims anyways.

It sounds like you are just bitching for the heck of it.

And I'd be annoyed if I spent 10 hours of my day to finish 4th by a single battle point in a hard-fought, 20-man tourney across town while some douche got a free ride and first place prize support because he went to an empty store for five minutes in what is sold as a supposedly competitive event. There's nothing wrong with having some minimum standards and pointing out the half-assed and arbitrary nature of the tournament's organization. There's no reason there can't be minimum qualification standards in what is, you know, a QUALIFIER, and some flexibility in scheduling so that venues can meet minimum attendance standards.

The hardcore gamer in me is inclined to agree with you Cat, but the fair side of me has to disagree. Due to, in no small part, to what happened to me during last years WHFB 'Ard Boyz Prelims. I was asked by a friend to help another gamestore owner in another town get ready for 'Ard Boyz. Little did I know that meant providing 6 tables and terrain for all of them. Anyway, on the day of, i load up the fan with the tables, terrain, and my army and make the drive to the store. Get there and no one else is there...ok, that happens some times, gamers aren't know for being early. Well start time comes and goes and no one shows... In the meantime I run a demo game for a cheery guy who had come to watch. After about an hour of waiting I collect my first prize and pack all my stuff back into the van and head over to my FLGS and watch there prelims....

I really wanted to play and didn't get to. On the plus side it turns out that my FLGS hosted the semis and I pulled in first place and a free demon army .


Cat, I understand that what happened to me and what the other guy did (sign up hoping no on shows) are very different. But you can't keep it from happening without punishing people who got stuck out in the cold like i did.

I think the best solution would be if a store doesn't have enough people, they cannot host the following year. I don't think it's fair to punish the player(s) that showed up. There's a chance that the store wants to host and can't draw enough, and there's a chance that the store owner gives his best friend a free pass.

It'd be like the NCAA punishing USC over Reggie Bush and OJ Mayo by taking away future scholarships...... oh, wait, nevermind.

Honestly I dont think GW cares at all about prelims.. Its run by the trade sales team after all. As long as each player buys models to make a 2500 pt list then GW only has to give out 60$ of merchandise to the top person (which costs them what, 5$ to make?)

Might as well run prelims at every single store you can to make the maximum # of people get a 2500 pt army! Then drastically reduce the stores for semis so that you dont have to give out as many prizes.. after all, youre not making profit off people who already have a 2500 pt army from the last round

If a few people get lost or a few people added its all irrelevant long as they buy stuff

If someone has to sneak into the semis I doubt they can make it onto the finals... another baby club for a veteran to seal.

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:another baby club for a veteran to seal.

If the juxtaposition was intentional, funny.

If it was accidental, funnier.

gardeth wrote:Cat, I understand that what happened to me and what the other guy did (sign up hoping no on shows) are very different. But you can't keep it from happening without punishing people who got stuck out in the cold like i did.

If your cab doesn't show up and you don't make it to the airport in time to make your flight, the plane doesn't turn around and come get you when you eventually show up. Again, it's not a punishment. The airline isn't punishing you for something that isn't your fault--they're sticking to the 'rules' of air travel.

Participation in the semi's isn't a right that anyone is entitled to; the rules say that you have to earn that spot. If bad luck / fate / etc. conspires against you and you're unable to qualify, then--sorry--you haven't qualified.

I'm sure you're a nice enough guy (based upon the posts I've seen of yours over the last couple years, if nothing else), but to quote Will Munny, "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it." It is unfair to those who meet the qualifications to wave them for those that don't.

Last year, I had a ticket to the finals. I had to cancel three days before the tournament because my wife's grandfather died, and his funeral was on the same day. Was it 'fair' that I didnt' get to play? Who cares? It wasn't my fault that I couldn't make it. Wasn't GW's, either. I did the only thing I could do: chalk it up to bad luck, and try again this year.

I'll say this:

I pray that I see people like the OP is talking about across the table from me. People who don't deserve to be there. We're all fighting for a 2500 point army, and if one of the fights on the way there can be against someone who got a free pass or a cheesy one into the semis, but wouldn't have made it if they had to compete against good players....more power to them!

In fact, I hope everyone at my semi-finals is like that!

Gah yeah the store I played at isn't up there either. Nice organization there lol

CatPeeler wrote:Participation in the semi's isn't a right that anyone is entitled to; the rules say that you have to earn that spot. If bad luck / fate / etc. conspires against you and you're unable to qualify, then--sorry--you haven't qualified.

He did qualify. He was the highest-ranked player at his event; if you want to work it out with numbers, then he massacred 3 times, as his opponents didn't bother to show up.

The problem is you want DIFFERENT rules.

CatPeeler wrote:to quote Will Munny, "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it."

I cannot stand before wisdom such as this.

I think this one of those things that if it hadn't happened to me I would be completely on your side. So logicaly, if I where without bias I would agree with you, then I must concede the point.

Dashofpepper wrote:I'll say this:

I pray that I see people like the OP is talking about across the table from me. People who don't deserve to be there. We're all fighting for a 2500 point army, and if one of the fights on the way there can be against someone who got a free pass or a cheesy one into the semis, but wouldn't have made it if they had to compete against good players....more power to them!

In fact, I hope everyone at my semi-finals is like that!

I thought you won so much you didn't know what to do with it all...



Personally I'm going because I enjoy the competition (yea I know, ard boyz doesn't have much). I'd still show up if there was far less prize support. Ofc a 2500 pt army will help finance my trip to the finals and too novacon.

Wait, let me get this straight. A guy went to a store that only had two people show up? Does it say anywhere in the rules you need a minimum number of players? Whats the difference between this guy going to a store were he had a better chance to win, and people doing the same in the semi finals? IMO I dont see anything wrong with him going to this store and recieving his spot. He was at no fault here. You dont like how it worked? Then take it up with GW.

As far as the people who hope to get him or people like him in the semis... Why? Is winning the army that important that you would want to do so by playing the "seals"? In sports you want to prove your worth against the best time and time again. I know I want to play the best so I can claim I am the best. I probably wont do that, but I am not looking to play the seals to win a prize. Its just not worth that much to me. I would rather "EARN" the prize.