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For a while now, I've been playing around with the idea of starting some 'Nilla Marines. I wanted this army to fill three requirements: (1) be reasonably fun to play, (2) have a vivid color (i.e., not black and/or white), and (3) incorporate some kind of fluffy theme. Salamanders in Fifth seem to fit this bill pretty well. I'm sure you've seen lists like this before and I'm certainly not claiming that it's original. And for good measure I did a search (nabbing every idea I could along the way) and didn't find this exactly. I would really appreciate some C&C on this list, especially from people who play/played against/have seen something similar.

SEE BELOW FOR CORRECTED LIST

Building towards something like this (assuming it's alright), what would you do at 500 points? 1000 points? And how would you build past 1500 to 1850 and 2000? In bigger games, I would like to incorporate some dreads, more vehicles, and maybe a Techmarine but don't quite know how these things would fit in . . .

The expense of this hobby continues to boggle my mind. Models and tax alone, this 1500 point list ends up being about 600 bucks. ::faints from wallet fatigue . . . AGAIN:: This is why I seriously appreciate the 40k Lists subforum. To anyone who responds, many sincere thanks in advance.

Vivid color: lots of flames to paint on....
There are some fine examples in the dakka gallery.

SO:
-Hestan. Common choice . Where does he join?
-TH/termies+redeemer. Fits fluff and game.
-Tacs. 3 squads of mechanized marines. I doubt you need 3 MM. At least, on scoring squad may sit back and hold, so 1 squad with greater range should come handy.
-Dakka preds. cheap long range support.
-The LR is a HS choice. Seems more vehicles would either be dedicated transports or dreads.

Would add sternguard at 1750-2k. Combiweapons and the option of 2 heavy flamers just scream "cleanse and purify"... really fluffy.
Techmarines suffer from competition in elite. Maybe a MotF as second HQ.
FA was unfluffy in C:armageddon, but LS and attackbikes may provide fast support at affordable cost.

May suggest:

Hestan
2x tacs/rhino
1x termies
2x preds

=> 1k

Hestan
2x tacs/rhino
1xtermies/LRR
2xpreds
1x sternguard ( 2HF, combimeltas)
1x LR

=>1500

Hestan
2x tacs/rhino
1xtermies/LRR
2xpreds
1x sternguard ( 2HF, combimeltas)
1x LR
1xTacs/razorback

=> 1750

Hestan
2x tacs/rhino
1xtermies/LRR
2xpreds
1x sternguard ( 2HF, combimeltas)
1x LR
1xTacs/razorback
1xMotF ( bike, conversion beamer)
2x attackbikes

=>2000

If you want dreads,maybe:

2x dreads ( droppod )
1x sterns ( droppod )
0 termies
You'll lose 2 of them quickly...

IMO, Salamanders have something in common with sisters, so you know the tactics.

Thanks for the suggestions, 1hadhq. I knew I could count on a SM mega-vet like yourself. To answer your question regarding He'stan, I would probably put him on the Redeemer with the Termies to make sure his spear/gauntlet get a workout.

Anyone else have comments??? Would very much appreciate it.

This is my favorite one that I've yet come up with. Keep in mind that I've been trying to build this as much as possible out of two SM Battleforces. Aside from HQ and the big toys, this still requires MM and PF sarges from outside of those boxes. I have a few questions about it, especially considering that I have no idea how one uses Scouts properly . . .

@1500 (1498)
HQ
Vulkan He’stan
Chaplain (w/jump pack)
Elites
Assault Termies (5) (TH/SS), LRR
Troops
2x Tac Squads (10) (flamer, MM, PF), Rhino
Scout Squad (10) (shotguns, PW, melta bombs)
Fast Attack
Assault Squad (6) (PW)

- should I take less scouts and more assault marines?
- should I only take one MM and have a ML in the other Tac squad?
- is the Redeemer too exposed?

Trying to deal with that last issue, I came up with another list but don't know if it's flexible enough at 1500.

@1500 (1495)
HQ
Vulkan He’stan . . . 190pts
Elites
Assault Termies (5) (TH/SS), LRR . . . 440pts
Dread (HF, TL LC) . . . 145pts
Troops
3x Tac Squad (10) (flamer, MM, PF), Rhino (HK) . . . 720pts

This is my 1850 list:

HQ - V. He'Stan. 190
EL - 5x Termies TH/SS - LR Redemeer+MM (as ded. transport). 450

EL - 6x Termies TH/SS. 240
HS - LR+MM. 260

TR - 10x Tacticals, PF, Flamer, MM, Rhino. 230
TR - 10x Tacticals, PF, Flamer, MM, Rhino. 230
TR - 5x Tacticals, HB Razorback. 130

HS - Predator, Autocannon + sponsons Lascannons. 120

Not so fast of course but resilient, easy to play and efficient on all type of games.
Had a lot of fun with.

For under 1850 points games I don't know really.. by droppin' the 5x Tacticals, the Pred and one Termie you'll be around 1560.
I'll try something with just one Termies sq. (Vulkan with), all times 2 Full Tactical Rhinoed and some HS like Preds all around.
Consider also the combo Scouts on Land Speeder Storm with Tele. Homer for a DS Termies unit.

Manchu wrote:

@1500 (1498)
HQ
Vulkan He’stan
Chaplain (w/jump pack)
Elites
Assault Termies (5) (TH/SS), LRR
Troops
2x Tac Squads (10) (flamer, MM, PF), Rhino
Scout Squad (10) (shotguns, PW, melta bombs)
Fast Attack
Assault Squad (6) (PW)

Ok, the price tag is part of your list.
So why not just 1 battleforce?

Manchu wrote:
- should I take less scouts and more assault marines?
- should I only take one MM and have a ML in the other Tac squad?
- is the Redeemer too exposed?

Scouts should be small and cheap objective-campers.
Maybe sniper rifles + ML + camo =100
Add 2 ASM and flamer , meltabomb.
The LRR should have a nice bullseye painted on it...

Manchu wrote:
Trying to deal with that last issue, I came up with another list but don't know if it's flexible enough at 1500.

@1500 (1495)
HQ
Vulkan He’stan . . . 190pts
Elites
Assault Termies (5) (TH/SS), LRR . . . 440pts
Dread (HF, TL LC) . . . 145pts
Troops
3x Tac Squad (10) (flamer, MM, PF), Rhino (HK) . . . 720pts

-Dread with LC and HF? either shoot or close in. If he should walk, maybe an Ironclad?
-LRR may benefit from a MM..
-HK. Would drop them and invest into a droppod for the dread.

My self-diagnosis is He'stan drags a 1500 point list into inflexibility. Might as well drop him and the termies for a pair of tank-hunting dreads and spend the remainder on rounding out the assault squad. I had HFs on them for fluff and anticipating the inevitable PFs. The scouts were envisioned as a proactive challengers rather than MC-sniping campers--because a SM BF doesn't include snipers . . . Dunno how viable this turns out to be. We could use a SM scout tactica on Dakka.

Manchu wrote:My self-diagnosis is He'stan drags a 1500 point list into inflexibility. Might as well drop him and the termies for a pair of tank-hunting dreads and spend the remainder on rounding out the assault squad. I had HFs on them for fluff and anticipating the inevitable PFs. The scouts were envisioned as a proactive challengers rather than MC-sniping campers--because a SM BF doesn't include snipers . . . Dunno how viable this turns out to be. We could use a SM scout tactica on Dakka.

Most SC tend to send people on a course in listbuilding where they end up with units to benefit from the SC as primary choice.
A Scout tactica would be nice...
maybe try these: http://sonsofcorax.freeforums.org/tactica-scouts-t1163.html

Already bought the BF's ? Dreads aren't part of them now ( but were IIRC in another boxed set ) and you may have to decide
which flavor of dread it should be.

1hadhq dreads are walkers so can fire the lascannon and still move up,

personaly for me a bike squad in a hestan army is awesome 12" move with 2Xtwinlinked meltaguns + multimelta attack bike is way too good to miss, a captin on a bike with that sq (combi melta, mounted assult-rule) I know it's White scars kind of tactics but another troops choice with that capable firepower I'd go for anyday

gl for your new army!

1hadhq wrote:Most SC tend to send people on a course in listbuilding where they end up with units to benefit from the SC as primary choice.

This is completely true. I'm just not hitting it off with He'stan's theme. Could be "burnt out" from Sisters. (Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.) I'm leaning so hard into assault marines lead by a Chaplain . . . looks like I should go with a different vivid color--red. And, as a plus, I don't really like any of their SCs!

Hello all...

(2) have a vivid color (i.e., not black and/or white),

Or Outofthebox Grey?

I think if you still want to try Vulkan, don't go for both the Assault Squad and the Termies. Two assault oriented squads is good, but He'stan screams out for Sternguard with combi-flamers and combi-meltas.

Are you sure you want to play Marines? What other armies (besides sisters) do you play already?

Sisters are all I currently play and, although I love their models and their fluff, I've been a bit dissatisfied (just don't tell them) so I don't want to spend any more money on them just now. I was thinking of branching out into CSM but I expect I'd just end up feeling the same way about them.

At 1500 points two tactical squads is more than enough. I have a very decent W/D/L record with my 1500 Vulkan list, and I've never encountered a situation where I really needed more troops. Even games with 5 objectives aren't too bad considering you can combat squad and go to ground.

Another reason you don't need them is your opponents will usually be totally focused on your Land Raider and TH/SS Terminators. Which is absolutely fine; the entire units exists to take objectives (they do this really well) and generally just be a distraction, so your other units, like your Land Speeders, MM Attack Bikes, AC/LC Predators, etc, can do their job without as much worry.

In my opinion I wouldn't take Scouts either, as a Combat Squad with a (free) Missile Launcher will do the same thing but achieve better results. Ie; better armour save, better BS.