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Petition signed. I've also set up a Yahoo group SAVE DAMNATUS http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SAVE_DAMNATUS so those who don't speak German have a dedicated forum to discuss, organise, and maybe demonstrate our displeasure at Games Day UK in September.

Anyone up for waving a banner, or handing out flyers?

Posted By Da Boss on 07/11/2007 12:11 PM
Yup. the only thing they could have done was make the decision a lot faster, and save the DAMNATUS crew so much work.

But would they really want to save the DAMNATUS guys the work?  By waiting until the last minute to pull the plug they maximize the damage.  This serves as an example to deter others.  They used a similar tactic against Dreamforge.  Of course it seems unwise to screw over your fans in the same way as you would a competitor.  Maybe they just couldn't be bothered until the release was imminent and it became an issue?

Posted By General Hobbs on 07/11/2007 3:22 PM

Posted By Hordini on 07/11/2007 2:24 PM
Wait....were you Damnatus guys actually expecting to make money off of this movie, or were you just doing it because it was a cool idea?

If you guys were actually expecting to distribute the film for money, then I will say wholeheartedly that that was a mistake, and would have said the same at the start of the project.

Now, if GW has just banned all not-for-profit fan films....that's yet another lame decision from a company that consistently makes lame decisions.


If you guys were just doing this as a labor of love, I have a lot of respect for that and think it's a really cool idea, and it sucks to get shafted by GW at the last minute.

But honestly, if you guys were expecting to cash in on this thing, that was a very foolish idea.

I think the issue is more that under the IP laws for movies made there, they would be entitled to a percentage of any sales for any items featured in the movie. So if there was a space marine in it, then anything having to do with space marines entitles them to a percentage of money from sales etc.

If thats the issue couldn't they just quitclaim any rights to GW?

Posted By jfrazell on 07/12/2007 5:21 AM

Posted By General Hobbs on 07/11/2007 3:22 PM

Posted By Hordini on 07/11/2007 2:24 PM
Wait....were you Damnatus guys actually expecting to make money off of this movie, or were you just doing it because it was a cool idea?

If you guys were actually expecting to distribute the film for money, then I will say wholeheartedly that that was a mistake, and would have said the same at the start of the project.

Now, if GW has just banned all not-for-profit fan films....that's yet another lame decision from a company that consistently makes lame decisions.


If you guys were just doing this as a labor of love, I have a lot of respect for that and think it's a really cool idea, and it sucks to get shafted by GW at the last minute.

But honestly, if you guys were expecting to cash in on this thing, that was a very foolish idea.

I think the issue is more that under the IP laws for movies made there, they would be entitled to a percentage of any sales for any items featured in the movie. So if there was a space marine in it, then anything having to do with space marines entitles them to a percentage of money from sales etc.

If thats the issue couldn't they just quitclaim any rights to GW?

That's not the main issue.

The issue is also that this would negatively impact the value of GW's IP. GW might very well want to sell the rights to a 40K movie, especially with the popular video games and MMO coming out.

If there's already fan-made works out there then instead of getting (for example) $10 million for the rights to the movie, GW might only get $1 million.

By cracking down here, GW preserves the value of the universe they've spent 3 decades building. I don't see them being wrong in this.

this does not make sense , if the movie is really just a fan movie then anyone involved with the film could easily leak it to a torrent file and the makers would have plausible deny-ability.

it seems like a publicity stunt or they are trying to make money off of it. something seems wrong with this story.

Maybe they don't want to simply "leak it out". After all the years, some credit have to be given I guess.
But make all this stuff for cash. Really no good idea without having a waterproofed contract with GW beforehand.
I want to see it though.

Greets
Schepp himself

I feel really bad for the DAMNATUS guys, but I can see GW's point of veiw.
Abby, if what you say is true, I'd be so *fudge*ing angry.
That sort of dicking around is what makes big GW so damned unpopular.
Well, that and all the other gak.
I'm willing to give 'em the benifit of the doubt though. (God only knows why)

Bloody hell I not seen so much self righteous drivel for a long time  In all the time I've kept an eye on the Damnatus updates I've never seen any mention of making money. These guys are fans who have liked the fluff enough to make a film.

Yes there is an element of self promotion here, but why not. They produce a good movie and it gets noticed, someone say's 'hay the effects in this are great' or 'the direction of this movie is well done' and this leads to somebody getting a chance to do something in movies. Wind your necks in boys, it ain't nice.

Damnatus Guys: Just pass the movie to all of your friends and say, "Don't leak this, nudge nudge." If GW is going to be a dick about this, I'm sure there are ways to get your movie released to the fans.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I wouldn't say the comments made so far are self-righteous in the least!!

At the end of the day you gotta swallow it! Everything WH40K belongs to GW, thats the bottom line. I certainly feel for anyone who chances their arm at capitalising from the I.P and gets caught, but thems the bones.

Whether a film would be good advertising or not, its GW decision to make, not ours.

The most logical suggestion to come out is to ommit all references to WH40K and GW. Do that and people can see the film. Now, why haven't the DAMNATUS boys thought / done this already? All this posturing and moaning when there's a simple solution.

IMHO....and this is only MHO.....I imagine the film only works because its heavily based on WH40K, and on its own it can't stand up. As fans we're likely to overlook many a crap element because "Hey, its only a fan film....I couldn't do any better, so, right on chaps" or they really want to cash in on the I.P

Now this really pisses me off, because no one has the right to crap on GW for protecting its investment.

DAMNATUS get off your collective arses and either distribute the film without the WH40K walking stick, or can the whole thing and move on.....but stop wasting our time!

This is a mistake.  The Damnatus guys were not trying to make any money.  For GW to say no is shocking.  As someone who has defended GW in the past, I feel ashamed.

IMHO....and this is only MHO.....I imagine the film only works because its heavily based on WH40K, and on its own it can't stand up. As fans we're likely to overlook many a crap element because "Hey, its only a fan film....I couldn't do any better, so, right on chaps" or they really want to cash in on the I.P

How on earth can you make that statement, that they've used the 40k universe for it's theme means it will be a dire film!!??!!  So a film that is is in German that you would not seen fully is going to be bad because they couldn't come up with their own universe. Not that that they could take the 40k universe and make a film that manages to capture the darkness and grittyness of the fluff.

Bugger me that Dan Adnetts a lucky bloke then being able to use the 40k universe to prop up his bad writting. 

All the best to you Damnatus guys, stuff GW and get it leaked.

It doesn't matter if they were doing it to make money or not (I was never under the impression that they were) it's more about GW having to protect their IP aggressively due to UK IP law. If they don't, it can become publicly owned (or at least that is my understanding of it, I may be completely wrong. It would definitely be devalued). And that would kill GW. So don't blame GW, blame our wierd laws about owning ideas.
And don't blame the DAMNATUS guys either. The only thing I see in this that is bad form is how long it took GW let the DAMNATUS guys know their film wasn't gonna go forward. That is really bad. I feel really bad for the guys who obviously put so much effort into this project.

No. No, it couldn't.

Remember, people: the first amendment applies to GOVERNMENT ACTIONS, not private citizens or companies.

Here's some light reading: Moral Rights, in copyright, attach to the creator of a work, and can't be stripped away (or given away), period. The US has no similar concept. It's one of the more interesting differences between US copyright law and EU copyright law.

not, that they didn't try to make money with it....they spend a LOT of their own to get this whole thing going. I know one the guys personally, and he doesn't like to talk about the time, mones and effort he put in this.

btw. he's a teriffic painter

@ Anung Un Rama
Hehe, nice to see a well known face here.
And yes I won´t talk about it, cause you wouldn´t believe... ^^
Hmmm, but maybe we could give the Techpriest a new home at the "Sturmdrache". Whould you like to ask Thomas if this is possible?

Peter

As a filmmaker too, I really feel bad for the damnatus guys... most people don't realize the immense amount of work it takes to make anything resembling a feature film, even just a short. It would be great if they could get something worked out with GW to at least let it be shown at a games day or something, as long as the movie isn't sold on DVD some day. Worst case though, they have a completed work to put on their resume if they wanna try and do things right the next time

Oktavian, you have my sympathies.

....I wonder if I will soon find any freeware legal to download movies on bittorrent.....

Posted By Delephont on 07/12/2007 9:46 AM
I wouldn't say the comments made so far are self-righteous in the least!!

At the end of the day you gotta swallow it! Everything WH40K belongs to GW, thats the bottom line. I certainly feel for anyone who chances their arm at capitalising from the I.P and gets caught, but thems the bones.

Whether a film would be good advertising or not, its GW decision to make, not ours.

The most logical suggestion to come out is to ommit all references to WH40K and GW. Do that and people can see the film. Now, why haven't the DAMNATUS boys thought / done this already? All this posturing and moaning when there's a simple solution.

Now this really pisses me off, because no one has the right to crap on GW for protecting its investment.

DAMNATUS get off your collective arses and either distribute the film without the WH40K walking stick, or can the whole thing and move on.....but stop wasting our time!

I dont know why,but for some reason your statements piss me off when i read them.

I understand your point of view,but hasn't GW themselves 'stolen' things from everywhere to piece their fluff?So by so-called 'defending' GW,you're insinuating that creating -anything- thats not originally by them also.That would mean that all the custom chapters,rules,VDR,fluff for armies,fan artwork,conversions etc are basically not legal,seeing as they are IP infringement.Why you ask?Simple,because GW didnt make them like that in the box and their stamp of approval isnt under each of your bases,artwork and mentioned items.Maybe i just read it wrong,but thats pretty the f'king feeling i get from what you say.
You're telling a whole team of people that worked their asses off,spending time,money and god knows what else to make something true to what they like to just STFU and leave it behind?It seems you havent really been in a situation like that have you?

On the lighter note,I read the different versions of GW 'great scheme' and the protection of their IP for their own movie,but yes.This is probably the moment they should really start reading forums p-r-o-p-e-r-l-y and understand that what they do isnt the best for anyone.
Seeing as Damnatus was trully a non profit fan movie,i fail to understand why GW waited for the last moment to say 'You know what?We won't allow it to come out cause it might hurt our business.'Making this movie releasable would give both the D-team to potentially get noticed in the business,but also open up sources for GW to see how it would look if they worked on it(as one member here posted).Hell,with the right studio to work with,GW would only sell the clearance to use the 40k uni and make profit of it.Dont they realize the potential that is to make a serie on the Horus Heresy or the very start of the imperium? Seems like no.

If Kyoto-sama is right in his predictions,we might actually end up all playing AT-43 or SST...or what ever it is games that will come out.I really hope GW stops shooting itself in the foot.

To Damnatus team,really sorry to learn the ban,I was eager to see it as many of us were.Really sucks for you guys (talking from a fanmovie maker to another one)

Clayman I am 100% behind you. Those here who think we should 'just get over it' with Damnatus are seriously short of common sense. It was a four year old project, yes FOUR YEARS OF WORK, which GW did not object to. The Damnatus team has every reason to be upset. And the fans, well this is a kick in the teeth, the worst insult to the community GW has ever made, worse than banning squats, hiring Pete Haines, not listening over rules and spreading BS about how wonderful they are in White Dwarf.

For GW it is a disaster, they will merely annoy some fans in the UK and US, but in Germany, Switzerland and Austria their name will now be mud, even more so than usual. GW is already failing in its retail on the continent, especially in the French and German speaking countries. This insult will kick GW to death in Germany, where Damnatus is long awaited, known by virtually everyone who plays over there, including the kids, and where the production crew will howl the loadest. A company can afford to be hated if there is no competition, Microsoft I am looking at you, but the games industry is alive and kicking on the continent, they have popular how grown titles as well as Privateer Press stuff to fall back on.

No joke, killing a large companies name in a major market, and lets face it Germany is a BIG market, it normally enough to force resignations on the board. GW isnt competent enough to realise this, so their board are safe, for now. Allowing for the mass redundancies they have just announced and profits slide I am not too sure then then. Treatment of Damnatus will be ammo in favour of anyone who wishes to remove the board for incompetence, and that day is fast approaching I feel.

Hey Damnatus guys,

Just do like Blizzard did. Anyone whoes played Starcraft will confirme that Blizzard ripped off 40K big time. Just rename your stuff and then when the film comes out anyone who is a true fan will know what everything in the movie is.

Posted By Delephont on 07/12/2007 9:46 AM

The most logical suggestion to come out is to ommit all references to WH40K and GW. Do that and people can see the film. Now, why haven't the DAMNATUS boys thought / done this already? All this posturing and moaning when there's a simple solution.

The solution is simple only in theory. In practice, turning a full-fledged fan film into something that GW will be unable to stop with allegations of plagiarism is anything but simple. The task involved with include, but not be limited to, CGI-erasing any visual IP, reshooting scenes, re-dubbing dialogue, rewriting dialogue, inventing new plotlines in place of plotlines that cannot be used due to IP concerns, etc ad nauseum.

Call me a skeptic, but I don't see them being able or motivated enough to complete all that. Team morale has to be at an all-time low over in their camp, and I'll bet a groat on several people having already abandoned ship. No, it's a safe bet to say that Damnatus is a dead horse.