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Platuan4th wrote:They do it to me again! First the Dallas/Houston GTs and now the Atlanta GD! Every year I decide to go, they take the one I want away......

than, for the love of god, do not ever decide to go to baltimore.

thank you,
jsa

For those of you wondering why there are only 3 GTs this year as opposed to other it is due to Staff limitation on the part of GW. Since most hobby centers are now running close to 1 black shirt and 2 red shirts, it is difficult for th stores to send empoyees to the tournaments to help run them. For this reason GW has decided to hold the GTs at the main locations. Baltimore because that is where the HQ is and there is a battle bunker located just down the street. Chicago because that is where the central hub is for GW and the bunker. Vegas is going on for 2 reasons for one its Vegas and its on the strip this year. Second its the same weekend as the US Managers meeting (or so I have been told). For these reasons GW has planned to have the 3 GTs in these locations. Also because of the staff shortage, its easier to focus on Games Days the first half of the year, and then focus on the GTs the second half of the year.

I for one don't mind the 3 GTs as the Indy circuit has taken off. With tournaments like Adepticon, the Necro, the Colonial, the NEWCC, the hillbilly, the quake city rumble, and many others you can almost fit in a tournament once a month if you wanted to. GW has now put its support behind the Indy circuit and I think that is where it counts.

.

Hey now. What happens in DCM land, stays in DCM land.

Hey now. What happens in DCM land, stays in DCM land.

Holy double posts Batman!!!

Yeh that was about the funniest thing I heard all week.

malfred wrote:Hey now. What happens in DCM land, stays in DCM land.

Alright, I will leave it there, even though I was accused of being wrong about the GTs being a massive failure, and how attendance is the reason why there are only 3 GTs this year.

The problem is that the only ones that can refute his crazy assertions are Jeff Hall and Dave Taylor, and they are not on the DCM forum.

Hi guys, thanks for another opportunity to dive into the sharkpit ; )

The decision to run with three GTs for this year rests with the idea that we want to run quality events. We do not have the same staffing levels as we did in 2003 or 2004, and we have no intention of burning out our staff with gruelling travel schedules. Burning out staff means that events are not of the quality they could be. Having said that, we have been able to increase the staffing levels for our events (or return them to the levels we always wanted them at). Fewer events mean quality events, because we have the time to focus on all aspects, particularly the effort and passion put into the events by our staff.

For a while now, folks on the internet have been telling us that there are plenty of great events out there. Events that are more fun and better run than those run by GW. Why should we ignore these independently run events and continue to burn out our staff trying to compete to deliver a product that some nay-sayers perceive as inferior. That doesn't make logical sense or business sense.

Over the past two years we have pulled back from an excess of GW-run events, some of which were not as successful as we would have liked, spent more time making sure our plans were in order, and that we were able to create a sustainable way to provide support to the great independently-run events out there. The GW Tournament Circuit is the first step in a developing plan.

We'll be working hard to deliver three quality Grand Tournaments across the country this year. Rather than put another three GTs on the schedule, isn't it much better to provide additional support for six independent events that have a great reputation and track record. The conversations we've had with these event organizers have spawned dozens of other conversations, all with great leads to create the most positive atmosphere in the veteran US GW-gaming community for a long time.

Conversations with mods from Dakka and other online communities over beers at GTs or Adepticon, discussions with the guys from Bell of Lost Souls, working with some of the most enthusiastic hobby champions across the country, building relationships with some of the best event organizers around, what a great year 2007 was. We're really looking forward to what 2008 will bring.

And Blackmoor, thanks for the re-post. I have sent you a PM to give you a chance to clear up some of the misconceptions Stelek, and possibly a few others, may have on the DCM forums.

Cheers
Dave Taylor
GW US Community Development Manager

I will definitely make plans to attend the GT in Las Vegas as this was my favorite GW GT for 2007.

- G

lol.

Dave unlike Blackmoor, I'm not gonna be a big baby if I'm wrong. I have no problems talking in a public forum, hopefully you won't either.

I've been attending GT's for a long long time now.

LOTR flopped.

Fantasy attendance has dropped from 180 players to 50, sometimes 40 where players play each other again.

40K attendance isn't going up, I looked at the numbers I have saved and the public data available--if it's not going down, how is a thousand players 7 years ago to less than 500 now going up?

I met you when you played your guard at a GT. We talked about apparent declining numbers. Maybe you remember, maybe not. 40K used to have pretty solid 180-200 players 8-9 years ago, before LOTR came out.

Now the numbers are significantly reduced. So what's the deal?

I've been told alot of things by alot of different people, but frankly I'd love to hear it from you.

It surely can't be staff issues, I've never seen so many staff on hand at ANY GT as I did at Las Vegas. Are Indy's taking people away? We're all aware of GW's financial state affecting 2006. Is that still an issue for 2008?

Do tell, please.

BTW is the 'Iron Halo' thing the new Ard Boyz for this year? It's in WD but there's little info. Since it's your department, I figured you'd know. lol

Stelek wrote:

Dave unlike Blackmoor, I'm not gonna be a big baby if I'm wrong. I have no problems talking in a public forum, hopefully you won't either.

I don't want to turn this into a long debate like the other thread. I learned my lesson that showing you the facts, and being reasonable has no effect on you.

Again, like I have said before when you called me wrong, or a liar, prove it!

Post what I have said that was either wrong, or I lied.

Wish their was some more love for Texas.
otherwise I have to somehow seal up my armies for airline transport.

Gdurant, what do you mean seal them up?

You don't actually give the airline your army to transport in the bottom of the plane??

I use those metal toolcases from the hardware store that happen to be the airline approved size and put it in the overhead bin.

I do get stopped and searched repeatedly at the airport cause minis don't often show up in carry on baggage. lol

Here's a link. I think I have like 8 of 'em. lol

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=24981-16878-60132&lpage=none

Stelek wrote:lol.

Dave unlike Blackmoor, I'm not gonna be a big baby if I'm wrong. I have no problems talking in a public forum, hopefully you won't either.

I've been attending GT's for a long long time now.

LOTR flopped.

Fantasy attendance has dropped from 180 players to 50, sometimes 40 where players play each other again.

40K attendance isn't going up, I looked at the numbers I have saved and the public data available--if it's not going down, how is a thousand players 7 years ago to less than 500 now going up?

I met you when you played your guard at a GT. We talked about apparent declining numbers. Maybe you remember, maybe not. 40K used to have pretty solid 180-200 players 8-9 years ago, before LOTR came out.

Now the numbers are significantly reduced. So what's the deal?

I've been told alot of things by alot of different people, but frankly I'd love to hear it from you.

It surely can't be staff issues, I've never seen so many staff on hand at ANY GT as I did at Las Vegas. Are Indy's taking people away? We're all aware of GW's financial state affecting 2006. Is that still an issue for 2008?

Do tell, please.

BTW is the 'Iron Halo' thing the new Ard Boyz for this year? It's in WD but there's little info. Since it's your department, I figured you'd know. lol

Hi Andrew

I don't recall meeeting you, or chatting with you, sorry.

What's the deal? Well, I'm not sure there is a deal. We sold out of tickets at ALL three of our GTs this year. I checked the numbers for actual attendees from the GW website (the statistics pages) and came up with 798 (298 for LV, 210 for Chicago, and 290 for Baltimore). Anyone looking to "debate" this statistic in this setting would have no trouble finding that information.

Are the statistics from 8-9 years ago the same ones you discussed previously with Rich Curren? If so, could you please provide me those files? I know you were reluctant to give them up to Rich, but perhaps your willingness to discuss this in an open forum means that you are more willing to share them with me.

The question isn't "Why were there less than 500 for 2007?" (798 is greater than 500) The question is, what is the point of this all?

I'm unsure why there is a constant perception that Independent events "steal" people away from GW events. We (GW) run a particular type of event. This type of event isn't for everyone. Many of the Indy GTs (and other events) are run differently from our events and even from each other. Is that a bad thing? No, it's a good thing. If you don't like the composition scoring aspect of many events, head to the Gladiator tournament at Adepticon, if you don't like the lack of comp scoring at the GTs, head to the Necro (they have a great comp system BTW). We'd love to see growth in all of the events that are well run by people enjoying the hobby. In an effort to create a great environment for them to do so, we're trying to make sure that we don't negatively impact on some of the great events already running out there. We'll only put on three GTs a year for the forseeable future. There's no need to do otherwise when we can support other great Indy events, including future additional support for events in Texas so hold tight gdurant.

By keeping our events to that number we have been able to increase staffing levels at each of the events to the numbers we had "back in the day". This is very deliberate and aimed at providing a better event for all involved. Increased staffing levels at the GTs are a diferent issue to that raised by Negativemoney. We are very focused on keeping our Hobby Center staff focused on their training and development. Too many distractions that take them out of their Hobby Center (like staffing a GT) does not work well towards any of our goals.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

Cheers
Dave Taylor

BTW, no "Iron Halo" is not the 'Ard Boyz of 2008. It is an in-store program of hobby events and activities for our Hobby Centers focused on building core hobby skills (modeling, painting, tactics, etc).

BBTW, I'm sure the folks who had a great time playing in the LoTR GTs this year don't feel that it "flopped". When you make statements like that, please follow it up (or precede it) with definition you're using.

davetaylor wrote:

Stelek wrote:lol.

Dave unlike Blackmoor, I'm not gonna be a big baby if I'm wrong. I have no problems talking in a public forum, hopefully you won't either.

I've been attending GT's for a long long time now.

LOTR flopped.

Fantasy attendance has dropped from 180 players to 50, sometimes 40 where players play each other again.

40K attendance isn't going up, I looked at the numbers I have saved and the public data available--if it's not going down, how is a thousand players 7 years ago to less than 500 now going up?

I met you when you played your guard at a GT. We talked about apparent declining numbers. Maybe you remember, maybe not. 40K used to have pretty solid 180-200 players 8-9 years ago, before LOTR came out.

Now the numbers are significantly reduced. So what's the deal?

I've been told alot of things by alot of different people, but frankly I'd love to hear it from you.

It surely can't be staff issues, I've never seen so many staff on hand at ANY GT as I did at Las Vegas. Are Indy's taking people away? We're all aware of GW's financial state affecting 2006. Is that still an issue for 2008?

Do tell, please.

BTW is the 'Iron Halo' thing the new Ard Boyz for this year? It's in WD but there's little info. Since it's your department, I figured you'd know. lol

Hi Andrew

I don't recall meeeting you, or chatting with you, sorry.

What's the deal? Well, I'm not sure there is a deal. We sold out of tickets at ALL three of our GTs this year. I checked the numbers for actual attendees from the GW website (the statistics pages) and came up with 798 (298 for LV, 210 for Chicago, and 290 for Baltimore). Anyone looking to "debate" this statistic in this setting would have no trouble finding that information.

Are the statistics from 8-9 years ago the same ones you discussed previously with Rich Curren? If so, could you please provide me those files? I know you were reluctant to give them up to Rich, but perhaps your willingness to discuss this in an open forum means that you are more willing to share them with me.

The question isn't "Why were there less than 500 for 2007?" (798 is greater than 500) The question is, what is the point of this all?

I'm unsure why there is a constant perception that Independent events "steal" people away from GW events. We (GW) run a particular type of event. This type of event isn't for everyone. Many of the Indy GTs (and other events) are run differently from our events and even from each other. Is that a bad thing? No, it's a good thing. If you don't like the composition scoring aspect of many events, head to the Gladiator tournament at Adepticon, if you don't like the lack of comp scoring at the GTs, head to the Necro (they have a great comp system BTW). We'd love to see growth in all of the events that are well run by people enjoying the hobby. In an effort to create a great environment for them to do so, we're trying to make sure that we don't negatively impact on some of the great events already running out there. We'll only put on three GTs a year for the forseeable future. There's no need to do otherwise when we can support other great Indy events, including future additional support for events in Texas so hold tight gdurant.

By keeping our events to that number we have been able to increase staffing levels at each of the events to the numbers we had "back in the day". This is very deliberate and aimed at providing a better event for all involved. Increased staffing levels at the GTs are a diferent issue to that raised by Negativemoney. We are very focused on keeping our Hobby Center staff focused on their training and development. Too many distractions that take them out of their Hobby Center (like staffing a GT) does not work well towards any of our goals.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

Cheers
Dave Taylor

BTW, no "Iron Halo" is not the 'Ard Boyz of 2008. It is an in-store program of hobby events and activities for our Hobby Centers focused on building core hobby skills (modeling, painting, tactics, etc).

BBTW, I'm sure the folks who had a great time playing in the LoTR GTs this year don't feel that it "flopped". When you make statements like that, please follow it up (or precede it) with definition you're using.

Will there be a "ard boyz 08? If so, can you guys give a little more notice this year then last?

Thanks!

Yes it was, Dave.

I meant LOTR flopped in the business sense, not at the GT. My apologies for not being clearer on that.

I don't have a perception that Indy's are taking people away from the GT's, I was just curious if that was something you considered.

I like the 'new is old' format of the GT. Not enough staff in 03-05 really made going a serious chore for me and those that went with me.

I do find it odd so many people didn't attend, it is indeed strange.

Hope I covered all the bases. I very much appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.

I meant LOTR flopped in the business sense, not at the GT. My apologies for not being clearer on that.

Yeah, it made GW millions and millions of dollars. It's still 12% of their business. Such a flop.

Stelek, do you just pull these opinions out of thin air? Or is 'by business sense' some sort of bizarro speak for 'sold hugely for several years'?

Do you guys read the GW investor site, or am I the only one?

http://investor.games-workshop.com/latest_results/Results2007/full_year/financialreview.aspx

See that bubble bursting? Well, the financial market sees it and that's LOTR sales tanking.

If you think it's been a good year for GW:

http://investor.games-workshop.com/latest_results/Results2007/full_year/businessreview.aspx

What's that first sentence say?

Now in this one, does it say 'profit' or 'loss'?

http://investor.games-workshop.com/latest_results/Results2007/downloads/GW_year_end_07.pdf

Quoting the CEO, if his word is to be taken at face value or is that 'bizarro' speak too I wonder:

"Lord of the Rings product sales have declined faster than we anticipated after the unsustainable levels of the last two years, but we still see them contributing to our sales and expect them to do so far into the future."

So please, read the whole set of documents. Say from 2003-2007. I'm an investor in GW, so I have good reason to speak my mind and say what I say. As a hobbyist, you should too. That quote is from the 2005 preamble, where ya been bud?

The LOTR business did flop. All that 'reorganization' stuff isn't ALL LOTR related, but alot of it is. Let me see where you get your 12% of the business numbers, please? I won't immediately call you out on the mat for saying it, unlike what you just did to me.

Oh by the way, I didn't get paid a dividend this year. GW couldn't afford it.

So, here's the only OPINION of mine. The above are all FACTS.

The stock price is still trading far higher than it's real value. I estimate that around 100.

Have a pleasant day reading.

Hi Andrew

I think the confusion/concern some folks seem to feel when they read your posts is your use of provactive language and "absolutes".

For example, "LoTR flopped".

Dictionary.com lists as one of its definitions of "flopped" as "Informal, To fail utterly: The play flopped."

This, as far as I'm aware, the prevailing definition used by most folks I've interacted with regarding the word "flopped".

You can see how some people would dispute your "fact" (most of your opinions seem to be presented this way). Using the above definition LoTR dip not flop, supported so eloquently by Tom Kirby in the quote you chose. "Lord of the Rings product sales have declined faster than we anticipated after the unsustainable levels of the last two years, but we still see them contributing to our sales and expect them to do so far into the future."

That suggests that the LoTR product range did incredibly well, too well to be sustained, and the decline of sales was more rapid than expected, but the range will still contribute to sales into the future. The range has continued to do so, and for the US it continues to do so to the tune of 12%.

I write this only as a suggestion of a way for you to present you opinions in the future. Your consistent use of absolutes and "facts" seems to really get on peoples' nerves. Please reconsider the way you post. While some may cry "freedom of speech!" I'd like to think that as part of a community (be it online or not) there would be certain standards of behavior we could expect from even the most prolific of posters on Dakka.

Cheers
Dave

Ah well I am a bit over the top.

I don't think LOTR did very well in the states and I think the GWUK success blinded GW to just how poorly it was taken by it's regulars.

Or perhaps I should say, it did very well and GW didn't manage that success into a sustainable future and it's been two years of it so get on the ball already?

Seems very antagonistic to me, and as you've noted I'm a very blunt person so if *I* think it's going too far it probably is.

To put it in a more personal light:

I've never bought a LOTR figure or rule. I love LOTR, but it's a competitor to Fantasy and I'm not interested in Rogue Trader days of warbands. It's a copy of Mordheim, Gorkamorka, etc and while fine games in and of themselves I remember having Abaddon + 5 Terminators as my entire army and I hated it.

A handful (less than say half a dozen people) who play either 40K or Fantasy at my local store bought into LOTR.
Quite a few players who never played any GW games before, bought into LOTR. Which is now, sadly, dead locally. Did any of those guys who never bought anything from GW before, buy more after LOTR? I think one or two bought a box and that was about it for 'crossover'.

I don't judge LOTR a success here in the states. From what other GW employees have told me, it's done very well in Europe. So-so in Asiapac.

Losing so many employees, stock price, profit margin, and closing stores can't be blamed on LOTR *failure*, but as a 3rd arm for GW? I think it's a flop just like Mordheim, Gorkamorka, etc were. It's got a very strong brand going for it, and I think that's most of it's strength now. I've tried the game system, don't really like it since it scales so poorly. When it costs more to keep it going than it brings in, will it be closed or will it be 2 years past due again?

As a hobbyist and a shareholder, these things worry me.

If I'm the only one worrying, well I was worried the minute I heard LOTR was coming out and if others weren't, they should have been.

Will I see LOTR in the range in 2012? Only if SJ makes the Hobbit, in my honest opinion.

Do we have an idea of how many players of 40k there are in the usa? Hardcore and casual, but they have to at least buy product one every couple of months, all new codexs, white dwarf, have a box or two of unassembled figs.



Lake

Alright, I don't have any hard facts, so most people will want to ignore me on this one, but I worked in a retailer that sold GW product and got very into the gaming community from about 2000-2006, so just some of my thoughts:

LOTR was a flop. Obviously not monetarily, at least for a while, and it obviously takes up a portion of GW sales, but when looking at LOTR as a game and it's success it's important to not just look at the numbers in isolation.

The biggest stumbling block for the game, and an insurmountable one in my mind, was that it simply was always going to be a fad, as it's success was based on success from the movie industry almost entirely, and it filled no niche that needed to be filled in a Games Workshop store or the gaming community in general. Sales were incredible at the height of the popularity generated by movies, then they predictably tapered off. The error was in believing that if the game was supported enough then brand loyalty and enjoyment would keep the game going. Unfortunately, this was a fad, and such things fall from grace rather quickly even after a quick buildup. (Does anybody remember Beyblades? Thought not. I ran two tournaments for them)

Now, 12% of overall sales isn't bad, and they certainly contributed to the company in the long run, so I appear to be blowing smoke. But that's not taking into account the effect they had on the other, established core systems of Fantasy and 40k.

The years of LOTR's popularity were troubling and rather dark times for Fantasy and 40k gamers. In every WD there were always releases for LOTR armies, articles, events, and support. In response to this Fantasy and 40k had their support slowed to a trickle. This is understandable, there are only so many staff to go around and so many models that can be made, but it was horrible to certain gamers that followed certain armies, that have waited and in some cases still wait years for models and decent rule revisions. 4th edition was released, with all of the issues surrounding the elimination of decent and predictable FAQ releases along with poorly worded and thought out codices and core rules. The act of playing the game was frustrating to the point where many stopped trying, and dissatisfaction with the rule set continues to this day with 5th looming right around the corner.

Not only this, but sweeping prices increases across the board occurred within this time frame, pricing kids and casual buyers out of our store. When I bought my very first Space Marine combat squad, a tactical squad was $28 (CAN). Today it is $45, and players still need to buy at least as many to get an army started. A price increase of 50% to basic troops was crippling to our community, veterans were no longer being supported with the rules and model updates that they expected for core systems, and now beginners were being turned away by the amount required to play even small games.

Is that all a result of LOTR? No, I have no good explanations for that, only the people working in GW HQ do. But I do know what happened to our shop, I can see what's happening in terms of attendance and profit for GW and their events, and I must think that devoting so much of their resources to a game system that was destined to never establish the same foothold as their core systems cannot have made the situation better for anybody.

I love this game, and I am a casual/competitive gamer. I would love to go back to a GT. But what's happened over the last 5-6 years is worrying in the extreme, and to say that pushing LOTR as hard as GW did was a good thing for the community is a far stretch of the imagination as far as I am concerned.

This sounds like some 40k players are upset with the new kid who's getting some of their attention taken away from Momma. Please could this have ended when you turned 12?

If you think the LOTR game is dead, just head on over to www.adeptuswindycity.com. They have completly taken over the site and regularly post hundreds of times a week. It seems to be going strong over there.

I myself do not play LOTR, but I have bought thousands of figures for other fantasy and historical miniature games. Hordes of the Things is a great minature game and the LOTR line of figs lends itself perfectly with the themed armies of HOTT. The figures are wonderful, still universally known and fit perfectly on 20mm bases.

There are other miniature games in which LOTR figs fit and look great in. Just because your store doesn't have people taking table space away to play LOTR doesn't mean people aren't buying the models for other games.

I haven't seen a game of fantasy played outside the Downers Grove Battle Bunker at any other store in the Chicagoland area, but that doesn't mean the fantasy line is tanking and in imminent danger of sending GW under.

Yup, it's going great over there. Please ignore GW's falling revenues, staffing levels, event attendance/frequency, and the statement to it's investors that the LOTR bubble has burst.

Nobody's claiming that the game is absolutely dead or that it will singlehandedly take down the entire company. Hey, I know gaming groups that play Necromunda and Blood Bowl constantly, those games sure seem to be going good huh?

What we're getting at here is that for what the game is and the amount of resource diversion it caused LOTR sure seemed like a really bad idea, both at the time and now. Trying to claim that it doesn't look like GW's in a rough spot here isn't exactly constructive given the numbers posted up above.

I have a question. Yes, I'm being a smartass.

Do you count the individual guys for epic and fow for your total of thousands, or have you really bought that many figures @ 28mm scale?

DarthDiggler wrote:This sounds like some 40k players are upset with the new kid who's getting some of their attention taken away from Momma. Please could this have ended when you turned 12?

I haven't seen a game of fantasy played outside the Downers Grove Battle Bunker at any other store in the Chicagoland area, but that doesn't mean the fantasy line is tanking and in imminent danger of sending GW under.

I've seen Fantasy played at Games Plus and at GW Oak Park. I haven't
seen too many pick-up games happening, but I've seen and been a part
of small groups that make arrangements to play.

Stelek wrote:I have a question. Yes, I'm being a smartass.

Do you count the individual guys for epic and fow for your total of thousands, or have you really bought that many figures @ 28mm scale?

I'm counting individual figs all on 1/2" square bases or bigger.

350+ Moria Goblins
200+ Gondor
100+ Easterlings
Monsters and Heroes
120pt Free Peoples HOTT army (stands are usually 2-3pts and have 3-4 figs per stand)
120pt Army of Sauron for HOTT

I, and many other people, use the figs not for LOTR, but for other miniature games. They are wonderful figs.

Turtle wrote:Yup, it's going great over there. Please ignore GW's falling revenues, staffing levels, event attendance/frequency, and the statement to it's investors that the LOTR bubble has burst.

Nobody's claiming that the game is absolutely dead or that it will singlehandedly take down the entire company. Hey, I know gaming groups that play Necromunda and Blood Bowl constantly, those games sure seem to be going good huh?

What we're getting at here is that for what the game is and the amount of resource diversion it caused LOTR sure seemed like a really bad idea, both at the time and now. Trying to claim that it doesn't look like GW's in a rough spot here isn't exactly constructive given the numbers posted up above.

Those LOTR players are from all over the country. It is not a local group.

3rd edition was the golden age of 40k, since then the tourneys have seen a decline. This preceeded LOTR. I myself do not go to as many tournaments as I have in the past. I have talked to other players, those that used to travel and play, and there is a consensus that the reason we don't play as often is the rules. It's not the staffing, the resources, the profit margin, the venue, or anything else. It is the poorly written rules and the lack of variety in viable armies. This is not a recent happening. In 3rd edition we had a breakout of variety and rules. Since then the rules are being pulled back in and this has led to fewer people playing. IMO.

The English language is a funny thing, as I can say 'there' in regards to Adeptus Windy City and mean the forums rather than the location, which you assumed and decided to call me on. I'm sure there's still a large, active Warlord forum out there on the internet somewhere too, not to imply that LOTR has been discountinued/bankrupted.

LOTR is not recent either, game development and sculpting took place long before release. You don't see a drawing in of resources and a lack of support as a result of resource shifts/scarcity? You don't see how with more playtesters and writers devoted to two games that the rules and army viabilities might have been different?

You are correct, the LOTR figs are for the most part very nice. Sadly, I'll not buy any because I can't play them in GW tournaments. I'd love to make a Ork army out of those figs, since I hate the current Ork models.

=================================

Question to you, DD.

Since I agree with you since the decline of the 40k design team to only one designer whose work I appreciate (and makes me spend money) namely Phil Kelly, the game has taken a turn for the worse overall in the rules and codices areas.

Do you think for diehards such as myself, that the items you listed (the staffing, the resources, the profit margin, the venue) or what I or Turtle have said...think those would make a difference?