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As a seller, my policy re: Feedback is to always ask the buyer to send a e-mail confirmation that "all is well" on his end before I leave feedback.

Some buyers are gracious enough to leave feedback on their own, but for those who are understandably reluctant, I offer that as an alternative. It's probably more work both ways, but it helps IMHO.

Cheers

insaniak wrote:

TheSecretSquig wrote:Feedback has always been an issue to me. As a Seller, I leave -ve feedback for non paying bidders. But the bidder who didn't pay, is still allowed to leave me -ve feedback, for an aution he won, but never paid for.

The way to avoid that is to make sure you lodge an Unpaid Item Dispute for all unpaid items. That way, not only do you get your listing fees back, but the 'buyer' can't leave feedback if they don't respond to the dispute... and the vast majority of non-payers don't bother.

AgeOfEgos wrote:I've been involved in a handful of disputes. Within 2 days of me giving the dispute center the tracking number showing shipment, their dispute was overturned. If you don't save your tracking numbers, yes I imagine you could possibly lose money.

Even without tracking numbers (some of us come from countries with hideously primitive postal systems, where tracking on certain services is either far too expensive or just nonexistant) Paypal covers sellers for a certain number of Chargebacks a year (2 or 3 I think, off the top of my head). I've had exactly one chargeback filed against me in my time on eBay, and once I replied to the dispute stating a postal date and method of post, Paypal covered the refund. Didn't cost me a cent.

thats not always the case
right now paypal is holding 1700.00 dollars of mine for selling 22 items on ebay and trying to take the money out of the account to my bank
they demanded proof of shipping did that..... said they wanted proof of inventory did that as well against my better judgement..... paypal replied the next day saying we had to show them proof of delivery..... we waited 3 days..... showed them all items had been delivered ......paypal responded saying they were closing our account and keeping our money... they should, be recieving a letter from out attorney by monday... pay up suckers....paypalsucks.com read it leant it...never ever use paypal

Good luck, dude, I really hope you get your money back from those guys.

I assume your lawyer has already got the case law stating that the PayPal terms limiting venue are unenforcable as a contract of adhesion.

Polonius wrote:On the same topic Bartertown tends to have two types of traders (drawing horribly unfair stereotypes, far too broadly): those who are essentially running little stores, with prices on everything and no dealing allowed, and those with achingly precious trade demands for their equally obsure trading stock. If you have NIB Tau, and want 1500 Vampire, The Eternal Struggle cards, you might be in luck, but the gems are hard to find there as well.

I hit probably one of the all-time great deals on Bartertown about 5 years ago. I landed 45-50 metal Genestealer Hybrids and Magi, 7 Minotaurs, a Ratskin gang, about 30 Ash Waster Gangers, 4-6 tanks, maybe 30 Kroot, 20-30 plastic Orlocks, 10-12 original OOP IG, 2-3 metal Sentinels, 2 plastic Sentinels, a bunch of offbrand IG knockoffs and plenty other stuff I know I'm forgetting all for $175. It was 7 boxes in all. Oh yeah, he also sent a bunch of codices and rulebooks in a box that opened up during shipment, so I didn't get any of that. He was apologetic and I told not to worry about it.

But yeah, your point is well taken. The Bartertown experience now is having people demand 90% of retail for their stuff but offer 30% of retail for yours. Not that I don't some productive small deals there, mind you.

Gamers are mostly really cheap people. Except when it come to eBay, and then they get really stupid.

Bartertown is hit or miss. I've gotten some great deals, and I've had trade negotiations go like you said Gorgon.

*shrug* Depends on your patience and tolerance.

I've had some great luck on Batertown in the past, you just have to learn to look past the "swap meet" style posts (unless they have hard to find stuff, then price is usually less a factor). The true prizes on B-town (and on eBay) are the dump offs. Guys who are selling bitz bins, odd lots, half finished armies, their old roomates stuff, or even "everything GW i own." It's usually either a single blurry picture of a pile, or a rough description. They're often asking for "Best offer." My advice? Make the best offer. Always good stuff in those boxes.

A buddy of mine paid about $100 for what was listed as a "blood angels" lot because it came with two nib baal preds and some loose plastics. He ended up getting enough assault marines to build 80% of a flesh tearers army, complete with shoulder pads!

I grabbed a box for $50, no picture, rough description. I got a 2nd edition sentinel, current IG command HQ, a box and a half of new chaos warriors, 30+ cadians in various stages of assembly, 20 oop brettonian metals including Guy, Bertrand, and Hugo, a squad of mordians, a vindicaire, etc., etc.

Rle68 wrote:thats not always the case

Not always, no. It may only apply to items under a certain value. Can't remember for sure, and chargebacks have never been enough of a problem to bother finding out.

right now paypal is holding 1700.00 dollars of mine for selling 22 items on ebay and trying to take the money out of the account to my bank
they demanded proof of shipping did that..... said they wanted proof of inventory did that as well against my better judgement..... paypal replied the next day saying we had to show them proof of delivery..... we waited 3 days..... showed them all items had been delivered ......paypal responded saying they were closing our account and keeping our money...

Sounds like there's more to that story... but if it went the way you say, either someone at Paypal got their wires crossed, in which case it should be easily remedied, or you weren't actually talking to Paypal in the first place (which happens quite a lot when people respond to 'dispute' emails by clicking links instead of logging into their account)

They won't just keep your money for no reason. If they're closing your account, they obviously think there's reason to do so. Hence my thought that there's more to the story.

insaniak, I suggest you do a little more looking around before you assume Paypal is in the right. This happens a lot more than you might imagine. Paypal isn't a bank anymore than loan shark working for the mob.

I'm not assuming Paypal is in the right.
I'm assuming there's simply a little more to the story than 'Paypal kept my money for no reason'

In an ideal world, Paypal would require more than a whim to steal people's money to bank the float.

I once bought a dreadnought FW multi-melta arm, for $15 shipped. I waited over a week and nothing showed. Told the guy about it, and he said he'd look into it. After another few days I asked what was going on. He said that if it didn't show up in a few more days, he'd refund my money. Then if the piece did show, it was mine to keep.

Nothing happened for a few more weeks and I followed ebay's policy, which is to wait and give the seller time. Two months go by and still nothing; payment or arm. I finally get a hold of ebay sending an e-mail that said, basically, that I've waited around for two months to get my stuff from this guy and following your policies can no longer submit a paypal dispute to get my money back, what are you (ebay) going to do about it.

I had my money back in two days. Unfortunately the guy didn't refund me any money, he just sent me $15 via paypal, so I had something less than that.

Ebay worked with me, but I kind of feel it was a fluke, since they tend to take the scammers side.

Kilkrazy wrote:I've given up eBay and PayPal.

Their customer service is appalling whichever side of the deal you are on.

Not always, I paid big bucks for a steal legion army (150 figures) with 8 tanks (5chimera, 3 Bassies) I got the figures but not the tanks. Pay Pal refunded $175 for the tanks 30 days after I put in a claim.

I think this is a good move , But not far enough , it should be completely free to list, and you should only be charged when something sells, i run a ebay store ,so i am wondering what will happen with our shop fees as they are lower for store items anyway ?will they be brought into line with these changes ?

Still I have just launched my own web store because i was sick of paying £500 to ebay every month due to the number of BITS we were shifting.

kitsandbits wrote:it should be completely free to list, and you should only be charged when something sells,

That would be nice for sellers, but completely impractical for the poor sod stuck running a server that's clogged up with non-selling items...

The listing fee is supposed to cover the cost of having your listing sitting on their server. The final value fee is their commission for selling your item. If they were going to get rid of either of them, it would be for a system like that used by the 'Wargames Market' which charges a listing fee but no final value fee.

Paypal took £17.85 of my money because a buyer entered a complaint on Christmas Eve when I was on 2 weeks holiday in Japan, and if you don't respond within 10 days they automatically find against you.

The emails they were sending to me were automatically reponded to by my "out of office" function, saying I was on holiday, which they ignored.

I have no reason to suppose the buyer was lying about the figures not having been delivered, but I had already entered a complaint and enquiry with the Post Office, as per the terms and conditions of the auction.

It took me a lot of effort to explain all this to PayPal and in the end they basically said tough sh*t.

The only upside was I had cleared out my account before I went to Japan, so it's sitting there as a negative balance. As long as I don't want to use my account again they can sing for the money.

Well from experience, the best way to handle problems with Paypal is with your bank.

Most banks despise paypal, and anytime I've had a problem with paypal my banks reversed it.

Paypal to me > screw you > I whine to bank > bank to paypal > screw you.

insaniak wrote:

Rle68 wrote:thats not always the case

Not always, no. It may only apply to items under a certain value. Can't remember for sure, and chargebacks have never been enough of a problem to bother finding out.

right now paypal is holding 1700.00 dollars of mine for selling 22 items on ebay and trying to take the money out of the account to my bank
they demanded proof of shipping did that..... said they wanted proof of inventory did that as well against my better judgement..... paypal replied the next day saying we had to show them proof of delivery..... we waited 3 days..... showed them all items had been delivered ......paypal responded saying they were closing our account and keeping our money...

Sounds like there's more to that story... but if it went the way you say, either someone at Paypal got their wires crossed, in which case it should be easily remedied, or you weren't actually talking to Paypal in the first place (which happens quite a lot when people respond to 'dispute' emails by clicking links instead of logging into their account)

They won't just keep your money for no reason. If they're closing your account, they obviously think there's reason to do so. Hence my thought that there's more to the story.

Actually no there sint more to the story its exactly as i posted i have asked them 5 times to provide me with anything we did to get the response we did their response is a non response
we have already filed suit against them

i found this site today and im going to start using it more often
http://www.wargamesmarket.com

anything that doesnt include ebay or force me to use paypal is a winner in my book
go google checkout

Stelek wrote:Well from experience, the best way to handle problems with Paypal is with your bank.

Most banks despise paypal, and anytime I've had a problem with paypal my banks reversed it.

Paypal to me > screw you > I whine to bank > bank to paypal > screw you.

That is because banks recognize that paypal wants all the benefits of being a bank with none of the legal requirements of being a bank. If any bank were to do any of the things that paypal does, they would be shut down within days, and their officers sent to jail.

Kilkrazy wrote:

The emails they were sending to me were automatically reponded to by my "out of office" function, saying I was on holiday, which they ignored.
quote]

If you reply to informational email sent out by paypal that goes to a junk email folder that customer service does not look at. So automated responses like OOF are not a way to go. Currently there is no good way to indicate to paypal that you are on vacation other than stopping sales like 30 days ahead of when you leave.

Credit card purchase can offer you a bit more protection actually as you can complaint to the issuer. But that helps the buyer.

I have heard of a new media fees pricing for lower cost items is coming out. But I dont know If this will help 40K sellers since you are reselling modified goods. It may work like media mail shipping and just be for CD's Dvd's and books.

>>If you reply to informational email sent out by paypal that goes to a junk email folder that customer service does not look at.

Then how is someone meant to respond to PayPal?

/rhetorical -- I know it's not you.

I mean, that sums up eBay and PayPal's (they are the same company) attitude to customer service.

Kilkrazy wrote:Then how is someone meant to respond to PayPal?

You are not meant to respond to Paypal.

Just give them their money, and hope that they don't take your money.

Kilkrazy wrote:>>If you reply to informational email sent out by paypal that goes to a junk email folder that customer service does not look at.

Then how is someone meant to respond to PayPal?

You're meant to log in to your account, and put your reply in the appropriate dispute thread instead of sending emails.

eBay and Paypal try to keep email dependancy to a minimum. While I'm sure they have other reasons for doing so, one of the big reasons for this is to cut down on the number of people caught out by phishing scams. If you never have to reply to an email from Paypal or eBay, you'll never get caught by one that isn't actually from them in the first place...

So instead of emails they use their own messaging system and dispute threads for communication between buyer and seller.

Kilkrazy wrote:>>If you reply to informational email sent out by paypal that goes to a junk email folder that customer service does not look at.

Then how is someone meant to respond to PayPal?

the emails you recieve are probably going to say something like the following



"
Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account and click the Help link located in the top right corner of any page. If your inquiry is regarding a claim, log in to your PayPal account and go to the Resolution Center.

----------------------------------------------------------------
"

There should have been some sort of way to appeal on your end. If there wasnt thats a problem. PayPal does have phone people you can eventually get to, eBay only does email support.