is the warhammer world in the warhammer 40.000 universe?

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**Storm Lord**

Whilst the old ones did appear in the 40k universe first and their disappearance could be linked to the Necrons war in the Heavens-why would they have created so many races on one world? And Orcs weren't made in 40k until part way through the war in the heavens, why would the Old ones have put the race into the Warhammer world if their was no threat from the Necrons? or put them there when other races could have defended it?

**Greebynog**

Storm Lord wrote:knowingly one day GW will put in an Aussie land for a campain, or to introduce another new race, or because they get bored, or because they can, or, well the the list just goes on

Albion ringing any bells? The rainy little island, with standing stones, a place called bol-a-hat...did make me chuckle. Calling it Albion wasn't exactly subtle either.

**Storm Lord**

Oh, didn't know where that was, I don't play warhammer, and so am working of limited knowledge of the warhammer world and geography of it and the 40k background to try and base my arguments.

**Greebynog**

No, it's not an aussie place, it's Britain, sorry if that was misleading. The warhammer world is loosely based on the Earth: Brettonia is France, The Empire is Germany, Kislev is Russia, Lustria is South America, etc etc

**Storm Lord**

Oh, I had some incling to the later half of that post, I was wondering why Aussie land was wet.. thanks for clarifying that

**jmurph**

Storm Lord wrote:Whilst its feasible that they are linked, its more likely GW was being lazy when coming up with background and so just duplicated things across as it suited them, so they didn't have to come up with new ideas-otherwise one day the two systems would end up coliding and that would cause no end of trouble

We have a winner!

**Storm Lord**

Um, yay me?

**Space_hoppo**

Actully in old GW lore they are linked and Sigmar is indeed a missing Primarch (He came down on a comet e.g. a space pod) and was so hard ass that he beat an entire ork army at the age of 5 with the jaw bone of a cow. But these days GW staff are told that they should not re-tell this story unlesss provoked or threated. Due to is makes more money not being connected so much.

**Storm Lord**

It has actually been revoked completely. At one event or another some high up person actually anounced Sigmar wasn't a Primarch which has then been the story since-hence Sigmar not being a primarch. Besides, he looks no bigger than a mortal man in any images I've seen, and Primarchs were meant to be bigger even than Astartes-which makes the Theory seem slighty off

**Space_hoppo**

well then my GW has been tossing up lies again. Ah well i think its true, only a great warrior could beat a ork army at the age of 5. No mortal human could do it.

**Storm Lord**

*pauses* I'm no expert, but didn't he get his special hammer after the Ork battle? No dwarf would trust a 5 year old with a hammer

**Space_hoppo**

A 5 year old that looked like a man and could out drink a dwarfen woman.

**Storm Lord**

That sound more like an insult to the Dwarfs. Besides Normal men can wield the hammer, so it can't have been a weapon worthy of a Primarch (No offense to dwarfen craft) Also if that theory is true, what aspect of the Emporer does he embody?

**Space_hoppo**

I'm not sure i'm not much of an expert of Fantasy. Besides normal men could you Primarch weapons like Abbadon and the Talon of Horus. So maybe its ok to be the other way around.

**Storm Lord**

Abbadon being a space marine, so it's not quite as large a jump from Primarch to human. Astartes being superhuman and all.

**Space_hoppo**

i suppose, but anyway who cares other than he was a tough ass mofo. And the world is set somewhere in the eye of teror in a floating timeline where it shall stay forever

**Megalomaniac**

Hi,
I'm a newbie here.
Just read this interesting discussion. Maybe you know about this site - tons of maps/interesting plans on Warhammer/40K
http://fantasymaps.wordpress.com/category/warhammer/

**Pyromaniac**

it sais in the fluff for 40k that a warpstorm cutting off terra for thousands of years was the begining of the age of strife
so couldnt the fantasy worlds have been cut off by a warp storm
or it could just be a world that the imperium has not found yet
read the begining of decent of angels sounds an awful lot like the fantasy world
not saying it is the world just the process of it being cut of and reverting to a feudal scociety seems pretty consistent with the fantasy back round

**Yorel**

When I first joined the Hobby nigh on 5 years ago I liked to think that Fantasy World and Holy Terror where the same planet.

I think my original idea was that at some point in the future of Fantasy there would be some kind of War which would lead to humens being the only survivers (Save for the High Elfs and Dwarfs who were taking in by their Gods) and that because of said war the world was changed in to our Earth. Time goes by and eventruly we end up with the 40k universe.

Once I started actrully reading some of the Fluff I relised that, that idea was stupied. But I like to think of the Fantasy planet being some where in the 40k universe, I don't care where.

**Storm Lord**

Well, it could be an exodite world, largely unexplored, would explain the old Polar warp gate thing in fantasy-and it is noted that the exodites had dragon like creatures on them, as does the warhammer world?

**Angron**

I'm guessing the old ones put all their creations on one planet as an experiment to see how they would get along. After all, they were hoping to use all of them together in a war against the necrons.... it'd be nice to see how they mingled before going into war with them.

**Orkistotle**

Greebynog wrote:No, it's not an aussie place, it's Britain, sorry if that was misleading. The warhammer world is loosely based on the Earth: Brettonia is France, The Empire is Germany, Kislev is Russia, Lustria is South America, etc etc

One more thought - Ulthuan is the Lost Atlantis. Looks like a small piece of it ends up being Florida in the US. Probably the part with a 'fountain of youth' which Ponce de Leon searched for. Seeing as how the Elves live so long, they must've had one of those.

**spartan m36**

i remember seeing on GWs site that
they are not the same

i might be wrong

**Storm Lord**

or you could be right.

Nowhere can a definative answer be found due to GW constantly contradicting themselves. One day there is a chance they will run a campain in which the two worlds collide and war it out-only to turn round and say 1 week later "They still aren't in the same universe" it was just "a mistake on our part" such is the way things work

**Fifty**

Ratbarf wrote:Well, one of the older players at my GW store told me about it once.

Now according to him the world is in the 40k universe in the eye of terror but for some reason the daemons and gods of chaos have very little power there compared to the other worlds in the Eye. (this is due to the old ones) However, the planet is supposedly unaccessible to spaceships yet the humans were able to crash land and start up but lost all semblance of technology and became pretty much savages. The orks were introduced by some roks impacting on the planet. And seeing as orks do not build their own devices but scavenge them from others they lost thier tech as well.

He also said that there was a battle report between the men of the empire and some space marines (that accidentally found themselves there after being sucked into a warpstorm) in an old edition of White Dwarf. Which apparently the empire won. (One of the graphics from this battle report can be found as the top banner on the US sites main page.)

He was making that up.

I played GW massively from 1988 to 1994 and soaked up any and all fluff I could get hold of, with WDs back in the 40s and 50s, old publications and all sourcebooks in that period. There has never been an explicit explanation from GW about WFB's place in W40K. It has been hinted at in official publications, yes, and some studio members may have said more, and I am sure store staff exceeded their authority and made stuff up too, but nothing official.

(On a side note, I coudn't help but laugh at some of the made-up fluff some GW store guy was spouting authoritatively last time I was there.)

**Mattlov**

I remember hearing somewhere that the WHFB world is in the FUTURE of 40K, just some dustball in what used to be the Imperium.

I'd like to see what ranked spearmen could do to a crushing claw Carnifex...

**lord marcus**

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Years and years ago in one of the 40k maps in a WD or rulebook they had the major planets in the 40k verse.

And 'Vaul's Anvil' was listed on the map next to the eye of terror- 'Vaul's anvil' is on Ulthuan in WHFB.

The 'old ones' now heavily in necron fluff were in WHFB world.
Warp gates were above the northern and southern poles.

Essentially it should be in the 40k verse- post the birth of slaanesh but no imperial or other 'modern' contacts.

There is also a "vauls anvil" in athel loren.

**arinnoor**

The Liber Chaotica says that even the Fantasy Slaanesh was made by the Eldar, so the two worlds are linked it just isn't clear how. The alternate deminsions holds the most likly IMO. Though GW will probably not give us an official answer.

**Lordy**

Like someone previously said, i prefer to think of WH40k as Fantasy 40,000 years into the future. Technology has moved on (Teleport etc) as far as it really can. Some species will have died out which don't appear in 40k, the others would have created technology in time to leave the planet before Chaos finally swarmed over it.

It is pretty much open to interpretation though, view it as you want to view it, me personally i don't like the idea of both worlds being in the same time era.

**99MDeery**

In the old fluff Warhammer was at the center of the Eye of Terror and was cut off when the old ones vanished, the old ones used to WHFB World as a testing ground for the races they created to fight the Necrons, and after birth of Slaanesh which i think occurs when the old ones dissapear it is cut off completely and only chaos daemons can get in through the 2 polar warp gates.