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I believe your local store is gonna be in trouble.

Tell trade sales.

This is supposed to get people into the hobby, that's why it's free.

You can play for free, you only need to buy a thousand dollar army to play!

I don't know how or why that works, but apparently it does. lol

"You can play for free, you only need to buy a thousand dollar army to play!"

So true.

I htink 25 may be a little steep for a tourney, but 10 would be ok. Yes, I can read that it is suppossed to be free, but if my local decided to charge I would pony up and not complain. I don't mind supporting m local, albeit I would prefer it be through model sales and not trumped up charges. It's more question of right and wrong, but honestly when it comes down to 10 bucks apathy wins out. If it comes to a consistant occurance, then maybe there is an issue.

Some stores may be charging a fee, and including a T-shirt.

Basically, this time around, there was no extra prize support for 'Ardboyz, it comes out of the stores monthly/quarterly allowance. In addition, the stores were required to buy an event kit, and the kit comes with 10 T-shirts that can be sold to recoup the cost of the event kit.

So the 10.00 fee may, (or may not) include an 'Ardboyz T-shirt. 25.00 does sound a bit steep, but the store might have other costs involved in running the tournament.

Last year, we rented tables and used a much larger space, but with no entry fee, it meant the store just ate the 300.00 in costs. This year we had no advance notice of the tourney, (saw it in WD the same time everyone else got the info), so we didn't have the option of the larger space. I'm not regretting shelling out the extra 300.00, even though it means we can only accomodate 16 people, not 40.

Sounds like the tourney is on crutches. Wonder if GW is planning on kicking the last leg out.

How do you figure the tourney is on crutches? If a store decides to charge to play, that's the stores decision, not GW's. I feel for the players that only have one store in driving distance, if that store is charging a fee for a free tournament. In fact, I'd tell that store where to stick it and drive 6 hours to a free event.

Stores that have a large enough 40K community should jump at the chance to run this tourney. As players work to get 2500 points of army together, or add some new stuff to their existing armies to keep up with 5th edition, where do you think they go? Oh sure, sometimes they'll buy online, but if the store is well run and stocked it should sell a lot of 40K stuff leading up to and the day of the tourney.

mikhaila wrote:Some stores may be charging a fee, and including a T-shirt.

Basically, this time around, there was no extra prize support for 'Ardboyz, it comes out of the stores monthly/quarterly allowance. In addition, the stores were required to buy an event kit, and the kit comes with 10 T-shirts that can be sold to recoup the cost of the event kit.

So the 10.00 fee may, (or may not) include an 'Ardboyz T-shirt. 25.00 does sound a bit steep, but the store might have other costs involved in running the tournament.

Last year, we rented tables and used a much larger space, but with no entry fee, it meant the store just ate the 300.00 in costs. This year we had no advance notice of the tourney, (saw it in WD the same time everyone else got the info), so we didn't have the option of the larger space. I'm not regretting shelling out the extra 300.00, even though it means we can only accomodate 16 people, not 40.

I understand the idea of recouping the costs but GW doesn't force anyone to run these tournaments so the stores running them should follow the rules. The whole tournament is a write off cost wise, it should be put in the advertizing budget. The whole goal for a store is to get a few new people into the doors.

grizgrin wrote:Sounds like the tourney is on crutches. Wonder if GW is planning on kicking the last leg out.

Actually it was too popular. Originally they were only going to do a fantasy based one this year but they changed their minds at the last min.

2,500 pts? Get into the hobby? What?

Last year this was a huge event. I expect it to be even bigger this year. Definitely not "on crutches."

Yeah, I worded that a bit strong. What was the cause for my knee-jerk concern was that it sounded like mikhaila was saying that prize support was pulled for this year that was given last year. If that's not what you meant mikhaila, my apologies.

grizgrin wrote:Yeah, I worded that a bit strong. What was the cause for my knee-jerk concern was that it sounded like mikhaila was saying that prize support was pulled for this year that was given last year. If that's not what you meant mikhaila, my apologies.

Basically, some GW events that stores hold come with prize support. 5th edition midnight event is a good example. Last year, if you held a 'Ardboyz tourney, GW supplied you with the prize support. Basically 150.00 in product. This year, the prize support comes out of each stores allotment. Partnership stores get 150.00 a month, if they run events. So for the month of Sept., if you run 'Ardboyz, that's where your prize support goes. Non partnership stores get 150.00 a quarter.

So while GW is still supplying the prizes, they come out of a different pocket. I'd agree that the tournament is limping a bit this time around. Notification that it was happening came when you opened up White Dwarf. No list of stores has been posted, and it's less than 3 weeks until the event. Impatiently waiting on a scoring system for the tournament. How do you score mino win, major win, massacre using the scenarios in the 5th edition book?

Hopefully, all questions will be answered soon, people will flood in to the shops for the events, and a good time will be had by all.

I was at FLGS today and the guys who run the store were saying that for 'Ard boyz, players will be able to use two Force organization charts for the battles. Meaning someone could take 6 monoliths or 18 obliterators. Is this true?

Not something that is supposed to be allowed. Nothing anywhere indicates the ability to use two force orgs.

6 monoliths would be amusing, (and annoying) but I don't think a game winner. He'd have to take two lords with rez orbs and the remaining points in warriors, and be careful as hell to not lose them, and phase out the army.

So no one else has heard this? These games will use one FOC? I hope so, beacause if its two, then my list just wont do.

It's just one, man.

Nope, Val. I go to the same FLGS as extremn(54), (shaddout, ex!) and that store is running the tourney with 2 FOC. According to the owner, some people were having problems fitting 2500 points into 1 FOC. Now, evidently there was a group of us there on Thursday night that were all out of the loop, because when we all heard that about 5 games stopped and you could have heard a pin drop. Then the question bombardment began. I dunno if this is "legit", nor do I care. I'll be off in a far foriegn land come time for the next round, so I'm just oging to frogstomp what I can. It'll be a gas. I will prob. change armies since 2500 fit into a BA FOC really easy with plenty left over, and I think there is more abusable stuff using 2 FOC. And Hardboyz is all about abuse, but with a smiley. Anyway, I've known this owner for about 10 years, and he's a really fair minded guy. He's doing what he thinks is best for his store and players.

Extrenm(54), if I were you I would prepare a 2 FOC list for Sept 13, and if you think you will be heading to the next round then you should have plenty of time to figure out what you are going to do from there. I suspect you will be going to 1 FOC if you go to next round.

In before all the anti-AC folks from the other thread get wind of this, and start rabble rabble rabble-ing about rules packets.

grizgrin wrote:Nope, Val. I go to the same FLGS as extremn(54), (shaddout, ex!) and that store is running the tourney with 2 FOC. According to the owner, some people were having problems fitting 2500 points into 1 FOC. .

There is no army that has trouble using 2500 points.

I think that is one of the reasons why trade sales puts on the tounament is because it makes you buy models/units that you don't have or might not normally use.

derek wrote:In before all the anti-AC folks from the other thread get wind of this, and start rabble rabble rabble-ing about rules packets.

Yeah, God forbid a store that gets free advertising and prizes to run a GW-sponsored tournament actually (*gasp*) follows the rules provided to them.

Well, there you have some opinions. That's what a forum is for. I'm not sure what I think of that call myself, but then I'm not exactly privy to all the reasons behind it. However, I just spent an hour or two this afternoon discussing how to deal with that fact on the tabletop with the owner, so that is most certainly what he is doing.

Danny Internets wrote:

derek wrote:In before all the anti-AC folks from the other thread get wind of this, and start rabble rabble rabble-ing about rules packets.

Yeah, God forbid a store that gets free advertising and prizes to run a GW-sponsored tournament actually (*gasp*) follows the rules provided to them.

I haven't seen what was provided to retailers. People have to expect things like this though. With so many different locations you have to expect some discrepancy. It seems every time something new comes out about what a certain store is doing/allowing that the sky falls again for people that the ruling/change won't likely effect. I can tell you with 100% certainty, I'm looking outside now, the sky is not falling.

I'm just trying to figure out what army can't fit 2500 in one force org?

I can think of a ton that could abuse the hell out of two force orgs.

I know, right? I've been looking at my BA list and I could sink a lot more points into my one FOC and still be right in the theme of my army, would all be "good stuff". It's not like I would be filling my list with "crap". Perfectly effective, I'd love to have the points space for it.

Tell you what scares the crap out of me. I've got one buddy coming to the tourney with necrons, 2 tellyport lords with immortal squads. If he can come up with a bunch more immortals and a couple more lords, and the points space (that's the big thing, there), then hes gonna beat the crap out of anything he touches.

The local ork guy I'm not that concerned about. Warboss and nobz on bikez, PK and tricked out. Truks for the rest. Not sure about how I'm gonna handle him yet. But that Necron Teleporting Circus gives me fits.

derek wrote:

Danny Internets wrote:

derek wrote:In before all the anti-AC folks from the other thread get wind of this, and start rabble rabble rabble-ing about rules packets.

Yeah, God forbid a store that gets free advertising and prizes to run a GW-sponsored tournament actually (*gasp*) follows the rules provided to them.

I haven't seen what was provided to retailers. People have to expect things like this though. With so many different locations you have to expect some discrepancy. It seems every time something new comes out about what a certain store is doing/allowing that the sky falls again for people that the ruling/change won't likely effect. I can tell you with 100% certainty, I'm looking outside now, the sky is not falling.

Why should people expect some discrepancy when the event is billed as a standardized national tournament with a very specific rules packet created for the event? GW advertises that these stores are running an 'Ard Boyz Tournament, the stores advertise they are running an 'Ard Boyz Tournament, the stores are given free prizes for an 'Ard Boyz Tournament, but we shouldn't expect them to use 'Ard Boyz Tournament rules?

And there is no need for your dramatic exaggerations, no one claimed the sky is falling. I don't really care much what stores other than the ones I'll be playing at are doing, but if I get to the next round and find out that the store I'm playing at decided to come up with their own rules then I'll be pissed. I specifically planned and built my army based around the rules provided by GW for a GW event, using one force organization chart, and I'm not going to go out and buy all new models so I can compete with others who will be using two.

mikhaila wrote:I'm just trying to figure out what army can't fit 2500 in one force org?

I can think of a ton that could abuse the hell out of two force orgs.

There isn't an army that can't fit into 2500 points for one force org. It might mean takeing some expensive units that aren't usually considered effective, but that is the game. I know this to be fact as I own each army and each one is around 3000 points with a single force org chart.

every legal army can field a 2500 point force the point of hard boys is to make you buy more stuff.
I really could use 3 more land raiders. so you go buy three land raiders and glue them together. That is why they don't have a painting requirement.
yes 2 FOC really screws with the balance. 6 vindicators please

Danny Internets wrote:

derek wrote:

Danny Internets wrote:

derek wrote:In before all the anti-AC folks from the other thread get wind of this, and start rabble rabble rabble-ing about rules packets.

Yeah, God forbid a store that gets free advertising and prizes to run a GW-sponsored tournament actually (*gasp*) follows the rules provided to them.

I haven't seen what was provided to retailers. People have to expect things like this though. With so many different locations you have to expect some discrepancy. It seems every time something new comes out about what a certain store is doing/allowing that the sky falls again for people that the ruling/change won't likely effect. I can tell you with 100% certainty, I'm looking outside now, the sky is not falling.

Why should people expect some discrepancy when the event is billed as a standardized national tournament with a very specific rules packet created for the event? GW advertises that these stores are running an 'Ard Boyz Tournament, the stores advertise they are running an 'Ard Boyz Tournament, the stores are given free prizes for an 'Ard Boyz Tournament, but we shouldn't expect them to use 'Ard Boyz Tournament rules?

And there is no need for your dramatic exaggerations, no one claimed the sky is falling. I don't really care much what stores other than the ones I'll be playing at are doing, but if I get to the next round and find out that the store I'm playing at decided to come up with their own rules then I'll be pissed. I specifically planned and built my army based around the rules provided by GW for a GW event, using one force organization chart, and I'm not going to go out and buy all new models so I can compete with others who will be using two.

If it was a standardized tournament one group would be running everything themself. They're not. They're leaving it up to individual retailers to run the first round. Right? How many individual retailers are going to have the same thought process? I'm betting none of them are sharing a brain, so I'd expect different things from each store, even if not all of them have the idea that it's going to be a 2 FOC tournament. In a tournament with a normal rules question, it could be ruled one way at one location, but the same exact question could be ruled another way somewhere else, it's happened before, and right or wrong, it's how it happens. And the sky has been falling for people over this tournament across every thread about it.

I think you're under the (mistaken)impression that I'm arguing FOR there being differences in how it's run. If anything the people that are playing in a Round 1 with two FOC are going to be disappointed when Round 2 rolls around and they have to win with one, because I'm betting GW is much more exact in how Round 2 will happen, as a few of their reps have already been answering questions leading into round 1. As for dramatic exaggerations, "God Forbid" I use a bit of humor in an attempt to get people to step back and look at what they're actually arguing. So far I've seen THREE people(two from the same store) across two threads actually saying that their store was doing something outside the normal rules(other than an entry fee, which was covered). Two stores out of hundreds? That's a pretty small variance.

If it was a standardized tournament one group would be running everything themself. They're not. They're leaving it up to individual retailers to run the first round. Right?

They're leaving it up to individual retailers to the run the first round of THEIR tournament using THEIR rules and THEIR prizes. Right? If they're not using the 'Ard Boyz rules then they're not running an 'Ard Boyz Tournament and shouldn't be advertising it as such because doing so would be misleading and, frankly, dishonest. It's a good thing people are becomming aware of this nonsense early so they know which stores to avoid instead of driving who knows how far only to find out they aren't attending the event that was billed.

If you think people reacting to this is equivalent to saying the sky falling then you might need to ratchet down your sensitivity meter a few hundred notches.