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I don't mean to say to make them ALL MEQs, but that there should be some option for them.

I realize you didn't mean that. My response was just made on the basis that your examples of possible radicals were all MEQ's.

Like I said before what are peoples thoughts on a radical witch hunter unit?

Something like a Conscript Platoon only without the whole multiples of ten thing, carrying mixed weapons, costing an additonal point each, forfeiting their armour save, and each receiving an IG level minor Psychic power. (not much harder to roll'em up in the bucket-o'-dice world of 40k than it is for anything else) I can imagine the dialog: "My Lord - there was a mixup at the Officio Assassinorum and they accidentally sent us a Culexus instead of an Eversor." "By Horus' claw! Empty the holding cells! We'll get our credits worth out of that Emperor-forsaken freak!"

Somewhat tangentially I also kinda like the idea of Inquisitors having a Commissar-style Summary Execution rule, mostly just because of the lil' text box on page 22 of the DH Codex: "...it is a symbol of my order and office, of the authority granted to me by the divine will of the Emperor...obey me without question or hesitation. Advance, or it will not be daemonic blood that stains my hammer this day." Sure sounds like Scholae Progenium motivational techniques to me.

IOW, you're talking about Radical Frateris Militia led by a minor Psyker? OK.

But I hardly see them as good...

JohnHwangDD I think wight_widow is proposing something more like 50 psykers below the level of sanctioned psykers, rather than frateris militia.

I like the idea, I think there should be some sort of "combined effort" rule for a unit like this and at least 6+ save.

I think between being shot at and perils of the warp the unit will lose so many of its numbers that it needs to have some armor save even if its only a minimal one.

The combined effort would either decrease the likely hood of perils of the warp or an increased potency of the attack as trade offs for fewer psychic attacks. Where a single psyker attack in this squad is the psychic equivalent to a bolter, two combine psykers is equivalent to a storm bolter, three to a heavy bolter.

I think they'd be more distinctive if their psychic powers were different than the psychicly castrated sanctioned psykers.

I was thinking rules-wise vs Fluff, with the combined effort as the net effect.

If they're cheap enough, a 6++ Inv Save isn't a horrible idea. It's not particularly useful, but it's a nice way to represent their net Psychic ability.

Perils would be occur as normal, but simply kills d3 members of the choir, rather than the lead Psyker.

Also, for the little dudes, if a single Psyker is a Bolter, two Psykers might be a twin-linked Bolter, and it might take 4 to reach a Storm Bolter, and 9 for a Heavy Bolter.

Their Psychic powers should be the same, but the lead Psyker knows all 5 powers.

I think he should be allowed to cast twice per turn if the unit numbered 10 to start.

I guess a way to almost think of this squad is as a squad of familiars where even the familiars can psyker things.

Well with the escalating combined psyker attack concept I think to keep the unit useful and as worthwhile trade off to using SoB the largest combined attack should be on par to heavy weapons; at least the picture I'm getting is that you can make a lot of psychic attacks or a few powerful ones. To keep the unit viable the most powerful attack should be as powerful if not disproportionately more powerful than the individual attacks.

Its analogous to music, with a piano playing one key you can play one note and, but as you add more notes to make a chord the combined affect is one with a richer tone. Where the combined effect is greater than its sum total of parts.

Also keeping the powers in the same way as sanctioned psykers would make it difficult to keep track, having to roll and keep track of all the different psyker powers. In the fluff its been said that Sanctioned psykers are actually weaker than other psykers, that when they go to the golden throne they are effectively neutered and have their psychic powers constricted. I'm not saying that we make the psychic choir uber, just that the difference between rogue psykers and Sanctioned psykers be represented.

I don't think they need to trade 1:1 exactly. If the choir is somewhat weaker and cheaper, that's OK - they're Radicals, after all.

If you think about sound, doubling the instruments doesn't double the perceived volume.

And the chord analogy only holds as long as the unit is intact, of some minimum size. If part of the chord drops out, it sounds terrible.

ALso, I was thinking there wouldn't be anything to keep track of. The entire unit, collectively, knows all of the powers.

Well the drop out of some of the unit as models die is kinda a built in weakness to what would otherwise be overwhelming to other players.

There is also a problem of giving them directly Sanctioned Psyker's powers, some aren't compatible. Telepathic orders, might need to be made to just granting a unit a +1 LD.

I think the total model count in the unit should come down to 20 or 25. Stats of conscripts, with Sv 6+. Sanctioned Psykers powers, but where each power on that list requires a different number of psykers to work together, and where some allow additional psykers to additionally assist.


Psychic Chorus
(Psyker) 8 pts WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld5 Sv 6+
(Leader) 11 pts 2 2 3 3 2 3 1 7 6+

The unit is composed of one (Leader) and between 9 and 24 (Psyker).

A unit of 10 models may (must?) upgrade one additional model to (Leader), and for ever additional 5 models may (must?) upgrade one model to (Leader) for +3pts.

Weapons: Las Pistols and Close Combat Weapons

The (Leader) directs the psychic choir, for each additional (Leader) the unit may direct an additional psychic attack. This may be made against the same or a different enemy unit.

Psychic Harmony: the powers of the Psychic Chorus are a matter of collective directed will, several powers require a number of models to join their psychic will to that of the leader, all test are taken based on the leadership of that (leader), if the (leader) is killed only the most basic of attacks may be made against a single enemy unit. Models joining their will to that of a leader may not make any other attacks this turn.

Powers:
Telepathic Assurance: (2 Psykers to use) May add +1 Ld to any unit near by. This may be used to boost the Ld value of a single (leader) in the Telepathic Chorus. This power's use is cumulative upto +3 Ld.

Psychic Ward: (1 Leader and 2 Psykers to use) Make psychic test, than roll d6 on 4+ enemy power canceled out. An additional 2 (Psykers) used to aid, allow a re-roll.
This may not be done more than once.

Psychic Lashes: (1 Leader) Make a psychic test. All models affected get D3, S3 attacks in the assault (no bonuses) that ignore armor saves. Any number of additional (Psyker) may aid the (leader) and gain this ability and may not make use of any other psychic power.

Machine Curse: (1 Leader and 1 Psyker to use) Pass psychic test. Any successful assault phase hit on a vehicle for the next turn is resolved below
Roll 1d6: 1-3 No Effect; 4-5 Roll on Vehicle Damage table; 6 Roll on the Vehicle Damage Table with a +1.
Each additional psyker allows an additional attack to be resolved in this way.

Lightning Arch: (1 Leader and 2 Psykers to use)
R 24" S3+X* AP6 Heavy D6+X*

*X is the number of additional (Psykers) beyond the prerequisite adding a (leader); up to a maximum of +4.

Why would you bother with the Guard Sanctioned Psyker powers? They're hopeless. Lightning Arc is a Heavy D6 Lasgun FFS.

This unit is supposed to be worthwhile. All I see here is a unit of double-priced Conscripts with terrible useless abilities.

BYE

I just wrote it out to start a more grounded less abstract discussion on them....

I'm going to add +X to the strength of the lightning arc.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

This unit is supposed to be worthwhile. All I see here is a unit of double-priced Conscripts with terrible useless abilities.

...and a really cheesy interaction with an animus speculum

Shh...

I think something ignored here is just the fact that a Sanctioned Psyker wouldn't be an option in this army, and that the Psychic chorus constitute the main psyker unit in the overall army. So in some way they're replacing the Sanctioned Psker, but that they also have power that minimally superior, all the while they have the advantage of superior numbers.

I think that their psyker powers need improvements I originally put them up as is to get some input. So lets hear some counter proposals.