Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't see much fighting at all. The world leaders would all cut a deal with the marines to be local administrators, governors etc and then disolve their nations for the good of the emperor. All it would take would be for a few blasts from orbit and a display of the destructive powers of the astartes for the world's leaders to realise they have no chance of winning.

Some nations which are more religious than others would rise up to defend their belief in allah, buddha, god etc but they are quickly put down while the mostly athiest/ secular nations of the West and the far east attempt mediation on behalf of their misguided neighbours.
Eventually such religions are forced underground while many others commit mass suicide rather than accept the new reality. Several religious leaders with the help of the chapter librarians urge their followers to admit they were wrong and join the new order.
Underground groups proliferate but have no real power and the bulk of the population enjoy the new technology.
Renegade military units attempt some resistance, a nuclear submarine launches several missiles at various targets before it's destroyed and several assassination attempts are carried out on the new order including marines. One marine is killed by a sniper while out of armour, another is killed by a sniper with a 50 cal rifle while in armour - the shot went through the eye lens.
Eventually the active rebels die out and are not replaced by a new generation.

A space marine chapter doesn't have the numbers to bring down a force like the combined might of all the worlds militaries. They would hit some important targets, take few losses, but then a battle of attrition would start that they couldn't possibly win.

They would likely just virus bomb us.

The marines, being big bad SM, would land overconfident of their scare factor. Once they are here we would wipe them out due to mass. Then somebody would call exterminatus and we all die on the next go. It´s a lose lose scenario.

BTW teletransporting termies sounds cool but as far as I know the Imperium doesn´t have onmi-everything scaners and the termies don´t fight very well encased by rock because a tech drone teleported a few meters away inside Cheyenne Mt or similar places.

M.

The fluff is pretty dodgy on just what kind of scanning tech they have. They can, after all teleport into the center of a ship thats several kilometers wide. So a few hundred feet of rock wouldn't be a problem in theory.

Two words: Vortex Grenade.

Wait ... actually, I think we would be fethed. Either that or everything would be going down the gakker until they got to Mexico, and the Mexi-CANs kicked the gak out of the Spase Marinezzzz!!!!!! Also, I think they would start to assimilate after taking advantage of opportunities in professional sport and being impressed with the bosummy-ness of our women.

Also, their blood would cure AIDS after being infected and we would capture one or two and try to figure out the acid spitting. That, and the snipers would get them. There is only 1000.

Eventually, after one or two ... wait ... 20 ... wait ... 20 + 1 really good one defect, they would live on for generations, giving eventual birth to a great empire that would span the stars and last for untold millenia. Wait ....

quite frankly, I don't see any small arms we can currently manufacture would do much if anything to power armor. Even something massive like a .50 cal would, I imagine, be rather ineffective. Whereas a single boltgun shell would kill any human, and most likely seriously damage any non-armored vehicle (boltgun round to the engine block of a humvee is still probably good night). If the standard issue IG armor is useless in the face of bolters, we wouldn't stand a chance. Our only chance would be the application of nuclear arms on a grand scale, thus crippling our own ecosystem.



Oh, and space superiority makes the entire point moot, as a single Strike Cruiser (let alone any sizable contingent of the imperial navy) could take it's time knocking off any missile sites even capable of attacking it, then focussing on infrastructure.

I think people are really underestimating current earth technology.

We have more air assets then the Space Marines. I can see whole squadrons of predator drones. armed with cruise missiles or Tow Anti Tank Missiles.

I also have a hard time believing that an Thunderbolt Fairchild II with a full payload couldn't smoke a tactical squad of Space Marines.

Daisy Cutters, Bunker Busters, 16 in (406 mm) guns, plus what ever else R&D has waiting in the wings.

All that tech can't take out guys with AK-47s hiding in the hills of Afghanistan (or hasn't yet, if it can). Given that most of our advanced assets require planning and a good bit of run-up time, a well-coordinated Space Marine force could drop, take out a target, and be gone before our forces could get there. The problem with defense is that you can't be strong everywhere at once; if your opponent can analyze your positions and determine the places you absolutely MUST hold, he can use those to make you weaken other areas. For example, there is no way that the American military could afford to leave the president and Congress unprotected, and initially would have to protect DC, until they could relocate them. Until then, a number of military installations would have to be undermanned and vulnerable.

Also, when someone controls the orbitals, they control most of the planet. Yes, there ARE missiles we can fire that can reach orbit... but unless there's some substantial upgrades in the works (for which we'd have no reason to have been working on), they wouldn't be able to target objects in orbit effectively. So, basicly the Space Marine ships can sit in orbit, hacking down anything that flies, and dropping torpedoes, bombardment salvos, and kinetic strikes unharassed in general.

Overall, all they have to do is decapitate the sophisticated C&C modern militaries depend on for proper functioning, and the battle is half won. Of course, if they took out the civilian controllers in the process, our militaries might have a better chance.

Another advantage marines would have is targeting sea traffic.

Once the initial 'join us we're nice guys' stage was over and the mask came off Chapter Master Kyoto's first move would be to announce that any ships headed for a non-compliant nation will be sunk by orbital barrage.

No container ships, NO OIL TANKERS, all the things that depend on a global supply chain get shut down. The military will be able to function, the US at least has a strategic oil reserve for just this purpose but a lot of countries would be hurting.

As others have noted, the Marines will have to be in and out real fast. Land engagements will be contests to see if the Marines can achieve their goals before air support/cruise missiles/nukes can arrive.

Here's another question, why would the Marines need to land? Other than taking hostages what would they need ground troops for?

We wouldn't stand a chance.

Orbital Barrage, Drop Assaults, Teleport Assaults. Those in any position of power would be knackered in a matter of hours, if not minutes (no, really). Strategic sights, such as major military bases and what have you would be pounded into dust.

Shock and Awe? Marines it.

And how well do you think the average grunt would deal with having a 7' or more lunatic in inches thick armour running at him, firing a gun which makes the Grunts mates *explode* in a shower of gore?

M1 Abrahams, better than a Russ? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Question is, how man do you have. £10 says an Imperial Guard regiment sent in to pacify the earth after the Marines will have a lot, lot more.

And frankly, I defy *Any* Tank crew not to poop themselves at the first sight of a Titan.

It depends on why the Imperium wants to take over Earth.

They are not after the Psykers as there aren't any.

Earth does not have spare agricultural capability.

It's industrial base is of some value but not once the economy has been wrecked by destroying the major cities and nations.

Kilkrazy wrote:It depends on why the Imperium wants to take over Earth.

They are not after the Psykers as there aren't any.

Earth does not have spare agricultural capability.

It's industrial base is of some value but not once the economy has been wrecked by destroying the major cities and nations.

Hive Planet OR just level the cities (take the people to a hive planet if they're valuable, otherwise who cares) and convert everything into usable farmland, including forests, jungles, mountains and deserts.

In a straight up fight, Space Marines lose against an actual, current RL technology army. Look at it this way, while it's not easy to get past the toughness, and the armor, a IG guardsman can still club a SM to death or poke his bayonette through his armor. The lasgun is deadlier than the CC attack of the guard as it isn't opposed by the targets skill in hand to hand. Modern military weapons are similarly capable, at least. There are only a thousand of them, and it takes time to make more. The vehicles they bring aren't going to be significantly better than anything we have, and if you look at the ranges the weapons they are using are effective at, US military small arms have greater range than most things mounted on a SM tank. A lascannon has a range of 48", the base a infantry takes up is 1", figure this will give a (being generous for various ability to move slightly and be comfortable) area of 4 feet per person, that is 192 feet, for their large anti-tank weapons. I'm not going to guess the range of our anti-tank weapons, but I'm pretty sure it's much greater, and I know (3 military bases around, lots of friends in the military, plenty of time at the range), that hitting a 3" target at 200 feet isn't that hard if you got a moment to aim, and if your not, well, SM's aren't 3" tall, and with armor piercing rounds, well...

The thing that SM's have going for them is spaced based position, a fractured as opposed to unified planetary government, rapid deployment against a potentially large number of static possible targets, and the threat of large scale planetary bombardment. These are handy, but unless they can bring things under control fairly rapidly, or are able to sway a major nuclear power to their help, in relatively short order, they wouldn't stand a chance.

So it comes down to, are they willing to bribe the locals to fight each other, or are they too proud, thinking that they are sufficiently superior?

Actually, I think that we would win by default.


is probably what your thinking, right? But seriously, who the feth would want earth? As a people (earthlings) we are so jacked up, that I think that even Tyranids would pass us by for fear that we would give the swarm indigestion,


Oh wait...

They already did.... has no one heard of Roswell? Here's what happened, the White lions came to earth, because of the reports of a Tyranid swarm incoming, they then realized that there was less than no reason to save our sorry hides, and left us be, in the hopes that our crazy planet could poison the Hive-mind, the Tyranid sent a few genesteelers to investigate, they captured some rednecks, and were convinced that there was no reason to eat filth such as us, to make things worse, the stealers got captured themselves, and were probed in all sorts of nasty ways.

The Hive-mind moved on.

GO EARTH!!!!

There would never be a pitched battle for us to bring our military assets to bare. The marines would simply engage in hit and run decapitation strikes while the fleet eliminated all critical infrastructure with cyclonics and lance batteries. Without leadership or infrastructure it would be an easy enough proposition to install a series of imperial regents to administer the day to day matters with the marines remaining in orbit and brutally crushing any uprising.

Brice

Marines would assault from orbit and lay waste to most of the millitary force of the planet in ambush strikes.
Major concentrations of force would be bombarded from orbit.
We only have one thing that can hit stuff in orbit; anti-sattelite missiles. ICBMs can reach, but then drop down to hit points on earth.

Thunderhawks and low-orbit ships would attain air superiority.

In a pitched battle, Marines would quickly be reduced to walking or land raiders. Modern militaries are VERY good at taking out tanks, and the Predator is a light tank by our standards. The rhino can't even stand up to autocannons.
However, space marine armour would win through, and needing anti-tank munitions to get through power armour, and yet bigger stuff to go through Terminators, we would lose exponentially as supplies are lanced from orbit or hit by ambushes.

After destroying our military strength and destabilising major governments, they'd up and leave before we could chip away at their numbers through geurilla warfare and send in the Guard to get down to pacifying the planet in the name of the Emperor.

Score would be a win for the Marines, but at heavy cost in lives and equipment. The destroyed Marine equipment would be salvaged and adapted to use against the occupying forces, causing an endless war until we give up and surrender or someone high up gets pissed off and frags the planet.

Earth vs. an Imperial crusade fleet would be a straight war of attrition. Our tech is sophisticated, but the Imperial stuff is scarily high-tech and rugged. Remember that the Leman Russ looks crude, but is an excellent infantry support tank and can run on anything combustible.

So, Battlebarge appears in orbit.

World Leaders assemble to discuss what to do. Battlebarge ascertains the positions (probes, Psykers etc) single Terminator, armed with Heavy Flamer, teleports in. Jobs a good'un, and we have no Leadership.

From there, further surgical strikes (not like we can stop their teleportation) remove the heads of Military, and then we are royally stuffed.

Citizens of the earth suddenly realise that the greedy swines who had been ruining our lives by running our Countries for the benefits of their Bank Balance are dead, and don't really care.

Why would they assemble? They never have before? More likely the marines would mistakenly think the UN is the central power. They would destroy it then mistakenly parade down Main Street thinking they had won, only to be defeated by a small child and pack of fluffy bunnies. They would return to the Imperium with tales of killer bunnies with BIG SHARP POINTY TEETH!

A common fallacy here seems to be that the Space Marines are in the habit of doing surgical strikes.
They aren't. According to the fluff, they're more like a hammer.
There's even an extended quote about a Codex chapter attacking a world and destroying it's millitary and defenses to root out heresy in the leadership.

The space marines themselves wouldn't do much to anything. Its at most 1000 guys on a planet of nearly 7 billion. Thats about 7 million people per space marine. Hell, we have more NUKES then they have soldiers. This isn't about the space marines. They would look cool for a while and do little if anything. It's about the 14 kilometer long space ship floating over the planet raining ultradeath on anything that the space marines can't do alone (I.E. everything.)

Space marines don't take planets. It's physically impossible. They just supplement the giant guard armada behind them by taking out hard targets and striking at the enemies command and infrastructure at strategic times.

Don't bother trying to scale anything up for a realistic idea of weapon ranges, it's all a terribly inconsistent abstraction so that we don't have to play games on ten foot boards.

But I think the Marines would wipe the floor with us. They don't fight protracted battles of attrition when they don't need to. They port in, kill everything that needs killing in a few minutes, and get evac. They'd be done before most militaries even know that they are under attack. Then those militaries would have to assemble in staging areas( orbital strike targets) to even be able to act in force. Don't bother with military bases, they aren't fortresses. Basically big stock yards that can be easily pasted by thunderhawk strikes. Space Marines have the strategic mobility to strike in whichever theatre they want, when they want. If we fortress up somewhere, if they even allow such a thing to happen, they would either orbital strike it, or teleport Terminators into the thick of it and thoroughly step in our cornflakes.

And while we have 6.5 billion people, we certainly don't have that many soldiers. The vast majority of people would cow in terror at real marines, tearing people limb from limb with their hands and shooting assault rifles that turn people into chunky salsa.

In todays political climate? Ha, most of the world would probably immediately surrender out of anti-war sentiment.

Nukes V Guard.

Nuclear Weapons are pointless, as the Guard have the physical numbers to liberally drape their soldiers over your explosives to muffle the blast, and still have thousands more wondering where the fight is......

I don't think the fight would happen.

Step 1. Imperial envoys land on the planet and announce themselves as the saviors of humanity.

Step 2. We willingly join the imperium as fast as they will take us.

Game over.

Think about it. Landing craft drop down on us with humans that are just like us. They offer proof that we are not alone and are part of a much larger race. They offer knowledge that we would give anything for. They offer us the chance to travel the galaxy. They can cure all of our global problems. They can cure most any disease. They debunk all of our religions and instead offer the divinity of the Imperial cult.
Who is gonna say no to that? BTW, we wisely realize that saying no will probably lead to the destruction of everything we know anyway.

Sign me up for imperial citizenship card.

Parts of Earth wouldn't go along, purely on the religious angle... the Middle East would probably see more Space Marines than most rebel worlds.

The Imperium would not improve our quality of life, not to any real degree. Things would simply get more GrimDark than they already are. Why should we get any special treatment when the rest of the galaxy operates on a culturally feudal level most of the time?

"the secret of war lies in the communications"
- Napoleon Bonaparte

There are about a million satalites around Earth. If the SM want to get close to earth with there ships they have to destroy some. So almost no communication between country's, no scanners to launch Nuce's. Country's will think they are attacked by some other country and start attacking randomly.

So I think we will be dead before the SM have even landed. If we can't comunicate we are lost, no teamwork, nothing...

Much the same as I was going to point out Voron!

Take out all our Satellites, and we are deaf, dumb and pretty much blind. Also known as Lambs to the Slaughter. Add in that they Imperium would be able to 'White Noise' the airwaves, and not even hand radios would work.

They have a giant space death machine. The could easily win by never leaving it.

This whole discussion is kind of hindered by that one fact.

ShumaGorath wrote:They have a giant space death machine. The could easily win by never leaving it.

This whole discussion is kind of hindered by that one fact.

Marines: "we have a giant space death machine. Surrender or die."

Earth "THIS...IS...CANADA!"

Marines: "alright, prepare for exterminatus."

(Admech): "Ixne on the exteriminatise. We need their stuff."

Marines: "er, uh...send in the Guard...yea thats it. They'll do anything. Er...whats that! Look over there!" Flees the scene

We'd be Doomed.
1. Space marines arive in orbit.
2. Space marines intercept on transmision of "Paris Hilton needs a new BFF".
3.Virus bombing comences immediately.