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two reasons when offense can be taken from those whjo in all honesty should take a more mature attitude to the game.

1. Getting into a character a little is part of the game:

If you are playing chaos your opponents army are likely "weaklings".
If you are playing orks your opponents army are liely 'gitz'.

2. People might get 'harsh' with critiques on painting. Either being pickty with very good work, or saying anything at all with very poor. In both cases the critique is there to bring the painter up in standard.
However some immature people se this as an attack.

Really there is nothing to complain about. If someone does seem to be getting rude regarding your army, check what they are asaying and why. oftimes you will find that it fits one of the two patterns above, and is NOTHING TO GET WORKED UP OVER.

ShumaGorath wrote:Different group dynamics will handle things like this differently. The gaming group I roll with takes special care to insult everything in everyone elses army as childishly as we can. anime fan saipan fightan magic gundam tau lovers especialy. Though everyone gets theirs.

To someone who isn't expecting it or doesn't enjoy the verbal sparing it can be a putoff.

Agreed.
I joined my 40K group about 4 years ago. I'm the first new player they added in about the last 8 years, and the last, too.
When I met them, i was warned that, as friends, there is NO harrassment that was too far and that it was all in good fun.

They weren't kidding.

I'm thick skinned. If you're not TRYING to insult me, you won't.

Since I've joined them, there have been 3 or 4 new people come and hang out for a week or 2 or more. None have stayed.

They were all warned ahead of time and tld to let us know if it seemed to go too far for them. ::shrug::


Eric

VermGho5t wrote:I bet stonefox and shumagorath play 4chan armees

Is gaytau <3 a 4chan army? That's how I roll.

There is a local dude that likes to give people crap about their armies and their paintjobs.

He is obviously blowing smoke up everyone's rears because his armies are bar none, the worst painted armies in the history of wargaming. He makes clix games look like masterpieces.

To top it all off, he likes to give modeling and painting advice...

Its all in ironic fun though.

But you cant just walk up to some random dude and slag his stuff and not expect a bit of defensiveness. Being that familiar when you really aren't is a bit much for some I have seen.

Aduro wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:I've had no bad experiences in gaming apart from rules lawyers. However, I have met some very unpleasant people on forums, some are even here on Dakka. People who are unsupportive, arrogant and criticise the smallest flaw.

Don't you mean criticize?

No, down under it is spelled criticise. Same goes for most words that would end in 'ize' for you (like summarise, penalise, but not prize). And color is spelt colour.

On topic, we joke about everything, from some guy's tactical incompetence to the stupidity of the hobby, but knocking paint-jobs is taboo. Too many painstaking hours invested in creating a painted (poorly, but I tried dammit!) army just to be insulted, even jokingly, is crushing.

Brian, I don't think I've seen a poorly painted army locally. The only criticism I've seen
leveled has been of the "not-painted" type.

edit: but then I don't play at the local GW.

I've not seen anyone of 20 criticize another's person's paintjob/conversions. Thats just not kosher. I have seen the "youngins" do that, but not too much in the old fart's direction as we're pretty much like the plague to them anyways.

Turn-about is fair play.... good general rule of thumb I've found for table-top gaming.
I can handle trash-talk with regards to each others armies (oomies-in-a-can vs weedy panzies, that sort of thing), I can handle jabs at the tactics on the board (what the hell, why did you move there?)... to a point.

When the game is clearly going lopsided and you notice your opponent has toned down the trash talk (probably due to the fact he/she is losing), you might do well to scale it back yourself. You'll keep people in the game a bit longer.

Constructive painting critiques outside of a game are always welcome, however, snide remarks about missing squad markings or no-eyeballs on your guardsmen during a game is generally uncalled for. You really have to judge the mood of your opponent before laying it on. This is especially true when you've been warned that the army is 'in progress' and several pieces are proxied... just do your opponent a favor and drop it (unless he's making comments against yours, of course).

Insulting individual chapters of armies is perfectly fine before/after/outside the game, this is generally a jab at GW, not you personally.
I hate those bastard Black Templar! Frickin' "Fall forward" rules can suck it.

I've started collecting old Squat models... I guess you can say I'm prepared for some verbal crap being thrown my way.
After reading through the thread, I'm still not really sure what this is about. It seems to alternate between making fun of
armies in the fluff (Blood Ravens, Marinez HURR! and squats...) and peoples actual armies (minis and such).

Berating the fluff... now there's a geeky past-time if there ever was one (not that I'm complaining, mind you). As every
marine (hurr!) player out there can attest to, this happens all the time. Even in their own codex, as someone pointed out
earlier. This is part of the hobby as I see it. We're choosing factions here, so it's only natural that people and the fluff
reflect that. All in all I guess it boils down to what you say, and how you say it (again, squats are a great example). But
I don't think it's reasonable to take offense when someone says something about your chosen faction. As Capt.Mal
Reynolds says in Firefly: "If someone tries to kill you you try to kill them back!"

Now when it comes to peoples actual minis, the situation changes. Who's to decide what one would consider friendly
banter or constructive critisism, as opposed to direct critisism or someone simply takin' a piss? (Apologies for the language)
An army of minis is something someone have purchased, worked on and in general put a large amount of dedication into.
Now, are you going to berate that person just because you don't like it? Compare this to graffiti. I might not like that someone
got a hold of a couple of spray cans and went to town on the wall of my building. But I still have to admit that I admire his/her
dedication, since it obviously had to take quite a few hours to get it finished.

[cliché] Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. [/cliché] And even though you might not think that some paint job looks great, doesn't
mean you have to be a brute about it. Talent isn't evenly divided amongst the population either. Does that mean that we should
mock people we consider 'less skilled?'

*Wanders off to finish his islam-assignment, and to wonder how much he'd have to spend to field a large Squat force just for the
heck of it*

al-Majid Agandhjin bin Ahfal al-Rashid

stonefox wrote:If you do not engage in trash-talking you are not a male. Or at the very best, you're an omega male.

I agree, if you can't handle the jostling, don't come into the den. Besides, isn't that how everyone greets each other? With a bit of reposte about their rivals army?

Hey! How are those blood-drinking emo goth marines doing lately? Last time, my puny halfling army tabled them in turn 3.. You care for another go, are is it still too light outside for the blood drinkers to emerge from the cryo coffins? Come on get the space marinez and let's throw down....

Or does everyone greet each other with a hug and kiss and a full round of Hey biff, nice argile socks.. Thank you poindexter, that is quite nice of you..... bahhhhhh!! If you can't take a beating from verbal trash talking, perhaps you should play tiddly winks on the freeway..

Arran235 wrote:Lol, I agree with the Cheese. I don't mind banter during games but half a forum out to destroy one chapter?

If you don't like a "forum" berating a particular chapter then simply don't read that forum or thread.

This whole idea that somehow berating some collection of metal an plastic bits is too much for some people to handle is absurd to me. This whole thing where people get overly sensitive to stupid little meaningless things like this is proof positive that political correctness is pussifing western society. If someone is going to cry like a little girl over something like this, then they seriously need to grow up and grow a pair.

The following has more to do about on-table as opposed to in-forum army-trashing

I personally like aggressive ridicule, mockery, jibes and outright "socially-inappropriate-verbal-abuse" as long as the other players are in on that aspect of the meta-game.
With my friends its affectionately know as the "smack-talk phase".

but that aside, playing smack-talk with people that aren't completely immersed and comfortable with the gaming community, locally or at large, can be cruel and can diminish our hobby as a whole by chasing away fresh perspectives not to mention alienate new players

One of these occasions was with a non-gamer that was thinking about getting into 40k because she liked the mad-maxx-oi-skin aesthetic of the Orks
mind you this was 4 years ago
She was promptly discouraged by not one but several encounters at the FLGS where different gentlemen aggressively and colorfully described the army as crap, while she was browsing for some miniatures to purchase
all of them attempted to convince her to play a "better" army (like Eldar or Sisters of Battle, yes SOBs)
The last of these encounters caused her to get so fed up with that aspect of gaming culture that she decided not to take any part of wargaming at all
Mind you this is not a "sensitive soul" I'm talking about, this is a dive-bar biker who just curious about war gaming, she wasn't intimidated she was pissed that so many people were being d***s

So if someone is new or doesn't want to play "smack-talk" don't be a *ic*, just stop

ok I'm done preaching

Da Boss wrote:Funny you should mention this, a guy in our group went mental recently over something like this. We had been calling him a filthy tau player, in fun. Everyone in our group gets slagged, it's part of the way things are. But this guy took it really hard. We're going to stop slagging him now.

The problem, it seems, is that often every group develops a "pecking order" and someone ends up on the bottom. Then it is suddenly Cool to rag on that guy the most. The guys higher up the pecking order never notice this unless it is pointed out to them - why would they? They're the ones having all the "fun."

I look at it like this, though - people at work treat me better sometimes than some of my "friends" with whom I am supposedly having "fun." Some are good friends, others rag on me all the time. Guess which ones I prefer hanging out with?

A clue - if he's not ragging back, it's time to stop. Show your friends that you don't appreciate them or respect them and pretty soon they won't appreciate or respect you.

Competitive games like 40K are, I'm afraid, the worst for situations like this.

Solorg

ChaosDave wrote:

Arran235 wrote:Lol, I agree with the Cheese. I don't mind banter during games but half a forum out to destroy one chapter?

If you don't like a "forum" berating a particular chapter then simply don't read that forum or thread.

This whole idea that somehow berating some collection of metal an plastic bits is too much for some people to handle is absurd to me. This whole thing where people get overly sensitive to stupid little meaningless things like this is proof positive that political correctness is pussifing western society. If someone is going to cry like a little girl over something like this, then they seriously need to grow up and grow a pair.

I agree with most of this, but it's nothing to do with political correctness.

Sorry, it's a bit of a bugbear of mine...

Solorg wrote:A clue - if he's not ragging back, it's time to stop.

Solorg

QFT

Da Boss wrote:Funny you should mention this, a guy in our group went mental recently over something like this. We had been calling him a filthy tau player, in fun. Everyone in our group gets slagged, it's part of the way things are. But this guy took it really hard. We're going to stop slagging him now.

I knew someone exactly like this... in fact we didn't make fun of his army in fear of the inevitable tantrum.

My friends and I do poke fun of each other's armies. I hate your space marines, they hate my eldar (although who doesn't hate eldar). It all in the fun of the game. I definitely don't diss on someone's army that I don't know though. I don't care if they have a 7 layer dip nacho plate covered in cheese on the table, I won't call their army cheesy, overpowered, or any other sort of insult (to their face at least) out of respect for that player. Complaining or flaming a specific army is just pointless.

The only guy we made fun of enough that he left the shop was the guy who painted his SOB's armor pink with bare breasts because they were "The Sisters of Slannesh" and he thought it was the most original idea in the world and would go on and on about it. He didn't last very long, and he definitely deserved it.

mattyboy22 wrote:The only guy we made fun of enough that he left the shop was the guy who painted his SOB's armor pink with bare breasts because they were "The Sisters of Slannesh" and he thought it was the most original idea in the world and would go on and on about it. He didn't last very long, and he definitely deserved it.

Doesn't sound like that guy was a player though, he was TFG.

I stopped playing eldar after the 5th game of "omg your playing the dildo heads again! hahahaha"

I sold my eldar after that.

me trash talk??? Does playing Space Marines count, I mean seriously fething Space Marines?? GAK!!!!

Every incarnation deserves what they get, except when I borrow my son's Dark Angels, then you know, die Xenos/Chaos Scumm!!!

Now that I think about it, I blame the red whippy sticks, or more precisely their decline. 40K society was much more polite when every honorable man had at least one whippy stick on his person to defend his honor.

Sir, you have impugned my Spazz Mariens Hurr. I demand satisfaction. Have at you! (whippy whipp whipp)

Frazzled wrote:Now that I think about it, I blame the red whippy sticks, or more precisely their decline. 40K society was much more polite when every honorable man had at least one whippy stick on his person to defend his honor.

Sir, you have impugned my Spazz Mariens Hurr. I demand satisfaction. Have at you! (whippy whipp whipp)

I still have scars from those things. Physical and mental.

Frazzled wrote:Now that I think about it, I blame the red whippy sticks, or more precisely their decline. 40K society was much more polite when every honorable man had at least one whippy stick on his person to defend his honor.

Sir, you have impugned my Spazz Mariens Hurr. I demand satisfaction. Have at you! (whippy whipp whipp)

That's all the red whippy sticks were good for. Whipping.

And poking.

And sometimes flicking or piercing.

But never, ever for measuring.

Solorg wrote:

Da Boss wrote:Funny you should mention this, a guy in our group went mental recently over something like this. We had been calling him a filthy tau player, in fun. Everyone in our group gets slagged, it's part of the way things are. But this guy took it really hard. We're going to stop slagging him now.

The problem, it seems, is that often every group develops a "pecking order" and someone ends up on the bottom. Then it is suddenly Cool to rag on that guy the most. The guys higher up the pecking order never notice this unless it is pointed out to them - why would they? They're the ones having all the "fun."

I look at it like this, though - people at work treat me better sometimes than some of my "friends" with whom I am supposedly having "fun." Some are good friends, others rag on me all the time. Guess which ones I prefer hanging out with?

A clue - if he's not ragging back, it's time to stop. Show your friends that you don't appreciate them or respect them and pretty soon they won't appreciate or respect you.

Competitive games like 40K are, I'm afraid, the worst for situations like this.

Solorg

Honset to God though, we didn't mean it in anything but fun. And when I say everyone gets slagged, I mean it. I recently came third in a tournament that a friend came first in. Well, you would want to hear the abuse I got, and am still getting. But I give it back.
We just didn't realise it was getting to this particular guy until he flipped out and challenged us to an "Inferno Match" where the winner (yes winner) had to burn their army for being cowards. We were slightly dumbstruck.

two_heads_talking wrote:

stonefox wrote:Or does everyone greet each other with a hug and kiss and a full round of Hey biff, nice argile socks..

Hey...I LIKE my socks....

Too me messing about comes with the game. And yes, Im sorry but I do give the guys who never, ever ever EVER paint a single mini when they play a load of crap. Atleast slap some base coat on it.

4chan???

I thought you meant insulting army lists or paint jobs. If you're just referring to the race people are doing, that's ridiculous. I mean, if someone really takes it to extremes, that would be bad, but just teasing I really wouldn't think would be a big deal.

For a year now whenever I've played 40k I've been using my 'beardy Eldar' as I won the local clubs 40k tournament with them, Weds just gone though someone brought in their new Chaos Daemon army and trashed my Eldar by the end of turn two, guess who the club says has a 'beardy' army now... (they were even talking of banning it from this years league!)
Mick

two_heads_talking wrote:

stonefox wrote:If you do not engage in trash-talking you are not a male. Or at the very best, you're an omega male.

I agree, if you can't handle the jostling, don't come into the den. Besides, isn't that how everyone greets each other? With a bit of reposte about their rivals army?

Hey! How are those blood-drinking emo goth marines doing lately? Last time, my puny halfling army tabled them in turn 3.. You care for another go, are is it still too light outside for the blood drinkers to emerge from the cryo coffins? Come on get the space marinez and let's throw down....

Or does everyone greet each other with a hug and kiss and a full round of Hey biff, nice argile socks.. Thank you poindexter, that is quite nice of you..... bahhhhhh!! If you can't take a beating from verbal trash talking, perhaps you should play tiddly winks on the freeway..

That's just the sort of macho bullcrap that makes random pickup games such a bloody nuisance. If I have a negative opinion about someone's army, you can bet I'll keep it to myself, and I expect the same in turn. I don't want to hear how your awesome Orks are going to wipe the floor with my Guardsmen, I want you to actually try to do it. When you win, gloating about it to my face is just adding insult to injury. If I win (heaven forbid), I won't point and laugh Nelson-style, but shake hands and engage in post-battle recapping and analysis as appropriate.

Friendship is not a carte blanche to kick me in the nuts, and I would not tolerate it even for a second.

Centurian99 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Now that I think about it, I blame the red whippy sticks, or more precisely their decline. 40K society was much more polite when every honorable man had at least one whippy stick on his person to defend his honor.

Sir, you have impugned my Spazz Mariens Hurr. I demand satisfaction. Have at you! (whippy whipp whipp)

That's all the red whippy sticks were good for. Whipping.

And poking.

And sometimes flicking or piercing.

But never, ever for measuring.

Exactly. Its pure fun on a stick, akin to the boxes those present things came in when you were a kid. So much fun! (I have a picture of my daughter-about 1, sitting in a box her present came in bebopping to some music). Here's to the whippy stick, hours of fun and a righteous instrument to smite the foe-the perfect gift!