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sourclams wrote:I have no idea why people would think that they can fire drop pod weaponry on the turn they arrive. And my marine list uses 5 dpods, so I'd be helping myself considerably if I argued otherwise.

There's a difference between think I can, and think I will be able to when they get enough questions asking about it to FAQ it. I think the codex writer meant for them to retain the ability, didn't realize the rules changed so they needed some fixes to make it happen, and dropped the ball.

RAW is obvious, and I see no reason to play it in any other way.

Option A for me.

Personally, I only ignore RAW when it leads to sheer silliness. A 30-Ork mob being reduced to Initiative 1 on the charge just because they're led by a Mega Armoured Warboss, for example, is silly RAW. This isn't so silly: a pod just got shot at a planet. The Machine Spirit is kinda busy with all the implications of that

Cheexsta wrote:RAW is obvious, and I see no reason to play it in any other way.

Option A for me.

Personally, I only ignore RAW when it leads to sheer silliness. A 30-Ork mob being reduced to Initiative 1 on the charge just because they're led by a Mega Armoured Warboss, for example, is silly RAW. This isn't so silly: a pod just got shot at a planet. The Machine Spirit is kinda busy with all the implications of that

There is no machine spirit in SM/DA/BA/SW droppods.

JohnHwangDD wrote:If the "intent" is that you can use previous Codex rules even when they're not stated in the current Codex, then I guess Legions, Craftworlds, Traits, LatD, 13th Co., etc. are all good again. Yay!

That would make alot of people happy .

No. RAW is RAW and I intend to play by it bar the stupidest applications.

White dwarves have screwed up before.

RaW is the only common ground the players have. I believe the rulebook, not the advertisement I need to pay for..

No. RAW is RAW and I intend to play by it bar the stupidest applications.

White dwarves have screwed up before.

RaW is the only common ground the players have. I believe the rulebook, not the advertisement I need to pay for..

I believe that it was unintentional that the drop pod cannot fire on the turn it deep strikes, however the rules as they are say differently. So no, they can't shoot when they drop. The plus side is my army list just gained 100 points of other stuff as I am no longer equipping deathwind launchers on five drop pods.

1hadhq wrote:

Cheexsta wrote:RAW is obvious, and I see no reason to play it in any other way.

Option A for me.

Personally, I only ignore RAW when it leads to sheer silliness. A 30-Ork mob being reduced to Initiative 1 on the charge just because they're led by a Mega Armoured Warboss, for example, is silly RAW. This isn't so silly: a pod just got shot at a planet. The Machine Spirit is kinda busy with all the implications of that

There is no machine spirit in SM/DA/BA/SW droppods.

I think he is talking more about the fluff

I still don't get it. The rules are clear. Is the question whether or not one plays by the rules?

You can make whatever house rules you like, but they aren't the base rules of the game. Someone may think the DPs *should* be able to fire when they land. That's fine; I think Chaos Space Marines *should* not be a slowed version of the superfriends, but them's the rules. :-)

I guess there was some batrep in a White Dwarf where a drop pod fired on the turn it landed..? Needless to say, it doesn't mean the rules are somehow invalidated or wrong, that game with those people was just not played correctly by the rules.

I'd vote for something between A and B...I think the intent is probably to let it shoot as it comes in, but that's not how the rules are written, so it's not allowed.

From the gameplay/fluff perspective, it makes sense. Fluff-wise, the vehicle would be providing cover fire for the troops as they disembark. Gameplay-wise, it fits, as the drop pod is supposed to be a sudden, hard-hitting element. Hits hard the turn it comes in, but is then (often) isolated and vulnerable.

If we let GW batreps dictate the rules, the game would lose all coherency...

A lot of the time, the GW guys make stuff up as they go along or they're playing according to preview lists that aren't final.

I remember a Bloodthirster (you remember those, don't you?) consolidating 12 " into another combat on top of a big pyramid (no worries bout difficult terrain either) in a four-way battle report some time ago.

I'd love it if it weren't A, it would mean that my Monolith could land in the middle of the a guard or tau gunline and immediately open up with the Gauss Flux Arc, as opposed to just sitting there for a round getting shot at by everything they can throw at it.

Well I am going with 'A' I think it is a little silly to think a trash can can be jettisoned from an orbiting craft, rocket through the atmosphere, crash into the surface of the planet, and the expect to fire a gun accurately. Marines can do that though, cause there cool!
Seriously, I play my marines with the pods missing a turn of fire, just makes sense to me.

I think this was an oversight. I've read all the discussions in this thread, but after reviewing the rules in question I choose "B".

Yes, the RAW forbids this. However it has the feel (much like the Smoke Launcher/PotMS question) of RAW being a technicality and not conveying RAI.

My Opinion:
A drop pod is a specialist deep strike vehicle (unlike a Monolith, for example). It can ONLY deep strike. The units which disembark on the turn of arrival can fire (but not assault). As the DP's weapons are intended to provide covering fire, so should it be allowed to fire as normal. The very art for the DP on the DP page of the SM codex shows the DP firing as the marines spill out.
Game effect: Given the extremely limited range of the Deathwind for example it would seem a largely useless weapon were it not able to fire when it lands.

It is clear but I suppose they should be fast vehicles considering they are launched from space at 1231421 miles per hour.

But it does seem pretty clear as to the RAW.

Option A is how we have been playing it at our FLGS.

I voted B, as my FLGS has been playing it this way for 4 years now, and even with the rule change, we have been firing Storm-bolters, though i will admit this is because we neglected to realize that there was in fact a rules change here.

I voted B as well. This is clearly an oversight. Everyone can read and so therefore it doesn't take a genius to figure out what the rules say, but this question is purely what you think and how you play.

Any SM players I play against, I will surely let them shoot the moment it DS

C

The purpose of the storm bolter (in my mind) isn't to leave a gun sentry after the squad has left the pod.

Rather, it is there to lay down cover fire for the squad to exit the vehicle. I think it should only fire on the turn it entered and should not shoot after that turn (limited ammo has been expended).

This is going to be an interesting situation for the new line of drop pods with assault cannons and such.

Flexen wrote:
This is going to be an interesting situation for the new line of drop pods with assault cannons and such.

Not really (assuming you mean the deathstorm pods from FW), they have a special rule for firing the turn they land (indiscrimantely at everything within 12 inches).

If you wanted the storm bolter to be one shot, a house rule where it does something like the deathstorm pods would probably be fun (as other wise two bolter shots is not much in the way of covering fire for anything...)

Jack

I think that when the vehicle hits the ground it becomes immobile thus able to fire. The rules for deepstriking vehicle I think counts more for Sentinels and Speeders. After all, if you immobilize a vehicle in the shooting phase and then subsequently assault it you hit it automatically, right? The same can be said here.

Capt K

They did it wrong in the battle report and yeah, they probably intended for pods to be shooting when they drop but I've always played it by the regular rules for vehicles (A)

Sentinels are walkers and speeders are fast. They have no bearing on this question.

Flexen wrote:C

The purpose of the storm bolter (in my mind) isn't to leave a gun sentry after the squad has left the pod.

Rather, it is there to lay down cover fire for the squad to exit the vehicle. I think it should only fire on the turn it entered and should not shoot after that turn (limited ammo has been expended).

I agree. It doesn't "feel" right that they are unable to fire. In actual play for example, in many (most?) situations will render the DP weapon useless for supporting the disembarking squad. Remember, that squad can't assault. The (to my mind) best use of the Inertial Guidance System is to allow deep strike units to actually get close to enemy units without a mishap. The unit will get one shot off, followed by being charged by the enemy. At this point units are locked in Assult, and the DP will be unable to fire in support of its troops. Sure, with the Storm Bolter one can land the pod far enough away to get a shot in before the enemy units run in. But it is largely hopeless with the Missile Launcher. Or so it seems to me.

CaptKaruthors wrote:I think that when the vehicle hits the ground it becomes immobile thus able to fire. The rules for deepstriking vehicle I think counts more for Sentinels and Speeders. After all, if you immobilize a vehicle in the shooting phase and then subsequently assault it you hit it automatically, right? The same can be said here.

Capt K

By that argument, a Land Raider that moves through ruins and immobilizes itself by rolling a "1" can suddenly fire all its weapons. Just doesn't make sense.

The RAW is pretty clear on this one. The "intent" of the rules changes with every edition. In 5th edition non-fast vehicles are not "intended" to fire if they move at cruising speed.

I never said it made sense, but it could be a rational way of explaining it...which would probably be how GW does explain it...LOL. I mean look at the lame reason they gave for the different ways Storm Shields work, etc. Like I said...the same can be said here. Personally, I voted A because that's what the rules tell us how to play...but to me doesn't feel right. Meh.

Capt K

Democratus wrote:

CaptKaruthors wrote:I think that when the vehicle hits the ground it becomes immobile thus able to fire. The rules for deepstriking vehicle I think counts more for Sentinels and Speeders. After all, if you immobilize a vehicle in the shooting phase and then subsequently assault it you hit it automatically, right? The same can be said here.

Capt K

By that argument, a Land Raider that moves through ruins and immobilizes itself by rolling a "1" can suddenly fire all its weapons. Just doesn't make sense.

The RAW is pretty clear on this one. The "intent" of the rules changes with every edition. In 5th edition non-fast vehicles are not "intended" to fire if they move at cruising speed.

I'm voting B on this one. If you look at the FW deathstorm drop pod rules the turn they enter play and land not only do they shoot, but the shoot 1D3 times at every unit in 12"! So a normal drop pod that contains only one weapon probably should be able to at lesat fire it once to provide covering fire. Otherwise the doors should stay shut until everyone is ready to charge out and then blow the seals and go. Why would you land, blow seals, wait 30 seconds for everyone to orient themselves while getting shot at and then start running and shooting. Might as well just drop them off and let them walk to the fight at least they would survive.

So yes there is fluff and game rules that support the fact that the pod should be able to shoot. So I am going with oversight and even GW is playing it as able to shoot hence the Bat Rep in the WD.

So this can be fixed with an FAQ that Drop Pods are Fast, assuming that is what GW wants.

Homer