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Oh I get it... you think we should be comparing 100 Vanguard with plasma pistols and power weapons then?

Troop choice vs Troop Choice, about the same points per model. And I picked the 5 suggestions people had appeared to reach a consensus on as using them all.

And how un-upgraded are 18 plasma cannons, and 6 plasma guns?

I think that point-for-point, 10 Tacticals with Plasma Cannon & Plasma Gun are comparable to 10 Necron Warriors, which makes more sense than looking at unupgraded Marines that nobody ever takes.

As for the suggestions, about the only clear consensus reached is that WBB should become FNP. There seems to be some moderate level of acceptance for Gauss becoming Rending. But recycling WBB and super Rez Orb have NO clear consensus that I've seen. Rez Orb has minimal support to become a 4+ Invulnerable within 6", but the recycling, in particular didn't go anywhere.

And even so, most of these weren't presented as a package. I've proposed one package (FNP, Rending, 2+ Warriors or Phaseout) that is non-controversial. But that doesn't mean that it is widely accepted as a basis to tack on other things.

I'm against Gauss becoming Rending. Way too potent for an army built around its basic core troop choice that can then be scoring, and deal with anything this side of a land raider through sheer rapid fire.

Because Fleet Rending Genestealers have more attacks per point?

It actually balances out, Rending on a 6+ not a 4+ ; which is what I would change it to.

I wouldn't add any new weapons or anything else.


Also, I don't think doing mathematical comparisons ever works as you can never take into account every mathematical equation for setting up troops so you have to look at it's balance seperately.


Phase out per individual squad is a big disadvantage more so than the 25% of your army as phase out usually occurs in the latter half of the game.

Where as with individual units phase you can have units gone on the first turn.


With the rules for deployment it is 2 rolls, 1 you got to get them back, 2 you got to roll to make them come on for reserve. Its beneficial but it is not game breaking.

Feel No Pain is pretty strong, Probably should only go to "elite" units.

Necrons should get stubborn simply because it is a weakened version of Fearless. It only affects them in H to H really.


It emphasizes the weakness of the army which is hand to hand, but also makes them somewhat different from Tau's gunline.

Where as Tau have Mobile vehicles and large battlesuits.


I think though having a squad phase out at 25% balances out, when you consider you still only have a 50/50 chance and if you lose the squad on Turn 1 you got a 50/50 of getting it back on turn 2.

Hollismason wrote: It actually balances out, Rending on a 6+ not a 4+ ; which is what I would change it to.

Rending is and has been since 3rd Tyranids on a 6+

I dislike the 25% models business, simply because you waste time counting individual models. That's annoying and gets old fast.

Counting 2+ Warrior units, OTOH, is much easier and faster.

Yes, I don't have much of a problem with genestealers fleeting and rending. I'd be happier with it if they lost 1A however, but I can live with it as it stands now. They're still going to likely waste a turn or two moving across the board, which gives you a chance to shoot them at their much less than 3+ armor save.

Hollismason wrote: It actually balances out, Rending on a 6+ not a 4+ ;
[/quote

Rending is already only on a 6.

With the rules for deployment it is 2 rolls, 1 you got to get them back, 2 you got to roll to make them come on for reserve. Its beneficial but it is not game breaking.

Check reserves rules again. Its a roll for turn 2, 3, and 4. Automatic on Turn 5. Meaning a necron player could lose his guys, roll "poorly" for reserves, and then have his entire army come back on turn 5 to camp the objectives on his side of the board.

Necrons should get stubborn simply because it is a weakened version of Fearless. It only affects them in H to H really.


It emphasizes the weakness of the army which is hand to hand, but also makes them somewhat different from Tau's gunline.

Actually Stubborn is generally considered superior to Fearless, especially for high Ld army, as it doesn't have the drawbacks of No Retreat!.

It allows the necrons to still be swept in combat and does not make them immune to tank shock pinning etc..



Sure with the We Will be Back theyll come on board etc.. its a better shot though and your opponent can prepare for it somewhat. Also with some armies it really wont matter if you come on board etc.. Swarm and CC especially. You could lower the roll to a 5 but I think a 50 /50 shot would work or make it so its a dice rolled for each model. That would be pretty quick etc..\


Feel no pain is a adequate boost ,but it shouldn't replace the mechanic or "theme" of the necron which is wht it should have IMO;each army has a flavor. Phase out and WBB is the flavor of necron , but they're horrible.

... what i've always wanted to know is why necros suffer from negatives on LD test ... why not make them all test with Unmodified Leadership ... in CC if you kill X necrons what does the rest care, they're all ready dead they'll be put back togetther later ...

Because that's how the game mechanic works. If you're talking about making them stubborn 10, why bother making them susceptible to leadership at all? Why not just make them pass all leadership based tests? Their negative modifiers, and fall back moves et. al. could be indicative or representative of surges in the collective, fleeting memories of individuality and/or sparks of A.I. self awareness or any number of things. Atmospheric disturbances, plain old latency/lag.

In the necron codex it states that they are subject to the rules of psychology due to the fact that they understand it is sometimes advantageous to retreat, fall back, take cover, etc.

It's common to consider Necrons mindless robots, but in actuality, there is a very dangerous living sentience driving them on an individual basis, a sentience that understands that even though they are destroyed, they can and will come back eventually. That mind has been dulled significantly by being immersed in a necrodermis, but still loathes all living things and relishes the opportunity to destroy life. Flayed ones are an excellent example of that: it takes creative thought to understand that wearing the skins of your enemy will intimidate them, in many cases, anyway.

I don't feel that Fearless portrays them properly and would be a blow to the mechanics of the army in CC. Perhaps Stubborn 8 for warriors, 9 for elites and destroyers (inc. heavies), and 10 for lords would work?