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Red_Lives wrote:Its C and i shall explain why!!!!

All of the aforementioned units are "in cover" this is very clear on all the descriptions. Now go with me here for a moment... in order in be in base to base contact with something that is IN COVER you must be in-fact moving into cover right? Even if its for an infinitesimal amount, no? So the very act of assaulting a unit that is "in cover" requires movement into cover, and on a side note not all cover requires a terrain test to move through.

they dont convert area around them to cover. they just count themself as in cover. and by rules

The Assaulting Through Cover rules say (rulebook, pg 36): "If, following the rules for moving assaulting models, any model in an assaulting unit will have to go through difficult or dangerous terrain as part of its assault move, the unit must take the relevant terrain test before moving. . .if an assaulting unit had to take a difficult or dangerous terrain test during their assault move, all of its models have their Initiative value lowered to 1 when attacking, regardless of other Initiative modifiers."

to take a test unit must actually move through some dif. terrain. so its not C

Red_Lives wrote:Its C and i shall explain why!!!!

All of the aforementioned units are "in cover" this is very clear on all the descriptions. Now go with me here for a moment... in order in be in base to base contact with something that is IN COVER you must be in-fact moving into cover right? [No] Even if its for an infinitesimal amount, no? So the very act of assaulting a unit that is "in cover" requires movement into cover, and on a side note not all cover requires a terrain test to move through.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:In the curent edition there can be times where a unit is "in cover" and would not benefit from the initiative bonus/handicap in combat.

The rules specify that the I1 is only taken into account if the chargers had to take a Difficult or Dangerous Terrain check.

"Cover" can be granted to a unit that is partially inside Area Terrain, but with all of its bases at the edge of the terrain boundary.

If that unit were assaulted and no chargers had to enter the terrain to get into B2B, they wouldn't have to make a DT check, and therefore wouldn't suffer a loss of I.

Those units that are granted "Cover" that do not require a DT check (or have specific reference to I1) shouldn't grant the I1.

Nurglitch wrote:
How is D definitely the intent? Can you demonstrate that, or provide a proof?

In previous editions of the rules, these units were given this rule of counting in cover. Logically, the unit was given this rule for a reason. We could then deduce that the in-game effect of the rule was the reason this rule was given to said unit.
Thus, the intent of the developers was for these units to have a bonus when assaulted.

Of course you could argue that it was the intent of the developers to specifically nerf these 3 units with the redesign of the new rulebook, and I obviously can't refute that.
But being a logical person, i'd say that it was not a specific intent to nerf those rules, and in actual fact the requirement to take a difficult terrain test was implemented to simplify when to determine if you were I1.
So, i can't prove beyond any doubt, but I think beyond reasonable doubt is good enough?

Yeah, that's what I meant - the rules were written in the old edition so the units would strike first, so I take that as the intent. That just seems very clear cut to me.

the only thing clear cut these days are vast tracts of empty land in the northwest.

G

Why doesn't someone just use the new email service to get an answer from GW

"Cover" is not sufficient in 5th edition to claim Init 1 from a charging unit. Not all cover causes difficult terrain rolls to be made. Thus, it is possible to charge a unit in cover (fog, smoke, grass, etc.) without making a DT roll. In this case, initiative is not altered on the charge.

Cover allows cover saves. Difficult Terrain affects movement and initiative on the charge.

Unless the special power causes enemy units to take a DT test then there is no reason to modify initiative.