Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Homer S wrote:Front or back doesn't matter to me. I think both on the same side would be modeling for advantage and I would call shenanigans!

Homer

I dont see anything anywhere that say you cant have both lascannons on 1 side of the landraider. Granted you may not like it but it leaves a good portion of the vechical open to attack b/c the gun in the front only has a 45 degree area in which it can shoot. So it really equals out in the end.

Well the rule in question has been answered...

the 'doors to the front' set-up has a huge advantage when disembarking units. All three doors are close enough together to keep a large unit coherent and legally debarked from more angles.

The 'doors to the back' set-up gives shorter range guns more range.

I would suggest crusaders and redeemers front mounted and standard land raiders rear mounted. Black templars LRCs holding 15 models may wish to rear mount their guns to have a more safe and versatile disembarkation area.


as to the fluff... It is ridiculous to think that with all of this technology, the machine spirit, jump packs, anti-grav speeders, and laser cannons, that an engineer couldn't invent a simple killswitch that is attached to the door. Terminator pushes door open, killswitch activates, and sponson guns cannot fire to front arc until door closes.

In WW1 they had machine guns that were timed to fire THROUGH a spinning propeller. I think 38,080 years of technology could design something that was safe to use in proximity to a door.

I dunno. This is the same future technology that neglects to equip Power Armor with night vision technology.

@ Homer S just wondering why you think its modeling for an advantage to put both guns on the same side? cause i can see a really big disadvantage to puting both guns on the same side.

Deathmachine @ yep ... the land raider throws a tread early on you end up with 2 lascannons facing a wall ... rest of the game its just ignored

Front is fine - official GW models do this, so can you.

@Tri i know thats what i was thinking, but i wanted to know what the advantage is. Homer S said i would be modeling for an advantage. but i really cant see one.

Deathmachine wrote:@Tri i know thats what i was thinking, but i wanted to know what the advantage is. Homer S said i would be modeling for an advantage. but i really cant see one.

Both lascannons can fire at a target on the same side of the tank.

Janthkin wrote:

Deathmachine wrote:@Tri i know thats what i was thinking, but i wanted to know what the advantage is. Homer S said i would be modeling for an advantage. but i really cant see one.

Both lascannons can fire at a target on the same side of the tank.

Janthkin FTW!

This is what I was thinking. It lets the two sponsons have a large overlapping field of fire. This permits shooting one of them and if the target does not die, firing the other one at it. If mounted one to a side, there is only a narrow place where they could target a single model if the first shot does not kill it outright.

And besides, don't you remember Fred's rib incident at the drive thru? The LR might tip over!

Homer

Um, all shooting by the LR is processed simultaneously...

Ok Homer I see your point about them both being on one side but then there is still the massive disadvantage of not having guns on the other side at all.

Presumably you would face that side where the enemy, or targets worth shooting with the sponsons, are not.

Q: Do you declare all shooting with the vehicle, including the POTMS shot at the same time and then roll?

Homer

JohnHwangDD wrote:Front is fine - official GW models do this, so can you.

While in this case I agree with you, seeing pictures of GW models in Codeci or White Dwarf and then saying its legal because of that, has been something proved wrong in many a case. The whole Black Templar Captian with an Iron Halo for example. Not possible because you are only allowed one in an army and the Emperors Champ comes with that 1 for the Army. At least at the time.

Homer S wrote:Presumably you would face that side where the enemy, or targets worth shooting with the sponsons, are not.

Q: Do you declare all shooting with the vehicle, including the POTMS shot at the same time and then roll?

Homer

You declare all of a units shooting at the same time. Pg. 16 BRB Last paragraph, last sentence. Though as normal due to PoTMS you can declare 2 seperate targets.

In the BT case, there never was a good rule for modeling an Iron Halo, so the Captain was purely decorative.

True in game terms. But many a person tried to claim you could because the caption said Captian with Iron Halo.

I mean we really cant use pictures models for a basis of whats legal in game terms. Eldar Vypers have no mounting for the Shuriken Cannon upgrade from the Catapults, but its still legal to take per rules. But you wont see a picture of this in the Codex nor a White Dwarf that i can recall. You just have to convert it yourself.

Same goes with the Land Raider. Its an advantage to model the doors upfront cause you can have bigger units inside and still maintain coherency when deployed. But its also an advantage to have the weapons up from for that extra 2" or so of range it will give you.

Its give and take either way and ultimatly no one is going to care how you model this particular vehicle in either of those 2 cases.

With the Lascannons on the same side idea. Go ahead in your friendly in house games. But go to any decent tournament and be prepared to have the TO rule your model illiegal 99% of the time.

where is the rule stating that in order to be fair, you have to model your tanks so that you wont have as good of a chance of being in range?

oh wait, there isnt one.

i wish i had put my flamestorm cannons on the front slot of my land raider...
just so used to seeing the sponsons on the back i just kind of automatically put em there...

Eldar Vypers use the Jetbike Shuricannon upgrade, same as the Falcon / Fire Prism. Always have.

As for the Iron Halo ruling, I don't know if that still applies - it's a Codex problem, not a model / counts as problem.

Back when the current LR model first came out about 8 or 10 years ago I think now, I put the LC's on the front. At the time I played Blood Angels and I liked the more aggressive look the tank had when all the weapons were mounted in the forward position like that. To me it just went along with that "In your face" style of play 3rd Blood Angels had.

Not once since then has a single person made a comment one way or another about that tank that i still have today.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Eldar Vypers use the Jetbike Shuricannon upgrade, same as the Falcon / Fire Prism. Always have.

As for the Iron Halo ruling, I don't know if that still applies - it's a Codex problem, not a model / counts as problem.

I just bought a new Vyper model and not in the instructions nor my own investications is there a place to put the upgrade. The Main weapon goes on top as modeled.. but the second one is a loss to me beyond jsut makign a slight conversion underneath. Jetbikes with the Shuriken Cannon are actually sold as a seperate kit to the regular Jetbike. If there is some seperatly sold Vyper im not seeing, Id love to see a link.

I also just purchased a number of Falcons and Fire Prisms and did not see the under slung Shuriken Cannon like comes with the Waveserpent. i infact went to Forgeworld to order it as part of the upgrade kit they sell so that I can arm them with said weapons.

You buy a Vyper and a Shuricannon Jetbike.

Swap the twin Shuricats under the Vyper for the Jetbike Shuricannon.

Simple.

Wow and extra 20 bucks for one cannon? Ill pass and make a converstion with the bits that came with the bike for free.

Thanks for the idea though. I'd be happy to try it out should someone have those extra bits laying around.

? what just mail order the shurican cannon (listed as a shrieker cannon ^__^ ) it was £2, when i last ordered one. code 9947010403102

Tri wrote:? what just mail order the shurican cannon (listed as a shrieker cannon ^__^ ) it was £2, when i last ordered one. code 9947010403102

On this side of the Atlantic at least, there are no separate bitz orders like the old days anymore. There are only a few selected items such as the Eldar Weapons sprue now. So new Vyper builders will have to do a conversion of the one from the weapons sprue.

Homer

Yep. Not even battlewagon Bitz has this particular item. Us players over here will just have to wait to see if they totally revamp the bits orders or leave it as is.

Weird i haven't noticed that .... i might have to place a large order 20-30 of these while i still can ... might simply be i'm phoning up and since i'm giving the right part number they're just filling my order.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=0&aId=11800002&start=1
I've listed the part number if any one over in the USA wants to give it a go. i'd like to know whether you get the shrieker cannon code 9947010403102

Edit

Note i have copys of most of the Collectors' guide which is where i'm getting my codes from

I was going to say why not just jump out the front door and not even care about the chance of getting your head blown off.