Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I must say that the artist should cop a good hiding with a bosspole for screwing up the bolter, the one thing you dont screw with.

Have BL forgotten about the other races in 40k like Dark Eldar and Nids/Necrons [hard yes but do able]?

All to true I love the BL books but all they seem to do is the same old space marine stuff,loads of other races offer fluff that is easier to make a story out of.I personally would like to see more ork novels.

They did a series on Horus, so why not Ghaz, Eldrad, Yriel, [insert dark eldar special character], Nightbringer [not know if it possible], Yarrick [a detailed account from start to finish], the Phoenix Lords, etc.?

The question is: is a book with Orks as main protagonists actually readable?

Also, I can't imagine how an Eldar novel could be that interesting. And Dark Eldar, now that's just sick

Well, the available Eldar books are readable, but not very enjoyable. Except maybe Farseer, which if i recall correctly, was decent.

Id certainly like to see some other races as well. Maybe not orks but yanno, others.

But Farseer focused mostly on the Rogue Trader chracter. As far asI recall there where no chapters written from the Eldar perspective.

Id certainly like to see some other races as well. Maybe not orks but yanno, others.

Necrons: "1101100010010010110"

Thats correct
But it portrayed the Eldar in a "normal" way.

AFAIK you didnt read the DoW books. Those were horrible. There was everything in there ranging from Terminators in/on Razorbacks as well as Eldar riding on special Falcons with plattforms so they could see better. It was simply ridiculous.

Okay, Necrons is obvious. And they will only work as adversary. Eldar are still and interesting race, but they just suck in the existing books. Dark Eldar always come off as being seriously evil, but then turn out to be a bunch of morons (UM book, as well as Dark Disciple).

Orks would be tough.
Tau could probably be done. Unless its another idiocy-fest like Firewarrior.

Tyranids wont work either.
Sigh.

I think Dark Eldar would work, even if not the way I might want it to. Look at the Forgotten Realms series and their waist deep pile of books about drow. Some are actually pretty good, even if the rest stain your pants and leave you with an icky smell. There are just lots of things to be written about a race/cult that focuses on treachery and scheming so much. Intrigue is generally a good thing.

Eldar I could see as well, but you would really have to have a writer that "gets" it. I certainly couldn't write it, but I don't think that it is completely out of human conception. The scale of action, a consideration for millenia of cause and effect instead of shorter term human considerations, would probably be the most difficult bit, but I could see it working.

The Tau are just different humans when you get right down to it. The politics of the Greater Good would be terrifically complex, be it between etherials or commanders. Plus a series about the Tau Commander who killed their etherial (Shadowsun?) would be interesting.

I think the orks would be tough, again because of extreme differences in motivation, but some of the fluff in the codex is really pretty cool. There has to be a few writers out there who could make it work.

Necrons and tyranids though, they are probably doomed to be the disposable horror sloths of the genre.

Quick Ref List:

IG: Yes
SM: Yes
Eldar: Yes, but by skilled writer only
DE: No (except, just maybe, if you had an 'abberant' member of the race and, even then, that would be tricky)
'nids: Slobber, Slobber
Orks: Yes, but by skilled writer only
Necrons: Beep, beep, beep, ting.
Tau: Yes (but you'd have to give them alien motivations and try to keep a little distance from the human.
Chaos: Yes

I think there's some real potential in rbinging some of the "classic" 40k stories on paper like the Horus Heresy did instead of just Codex fluff. I would love to read a book about Farsight, what drove him to brake away, GW doesn't have to hide everything. Armageddon 3 might work for that too, maybe with stories told from 3 perspectives. Yarrick, Marines and Orks.
Also, if we don't get rules for it, it would at least be nice to see from a purely hypthetical point of view what would happen if some of the Primarchs came back..

You guys obviously never read the fluff from the old WAAAAGH!!!: The Orks book back in the Rogue Trader days. Ork fiction can be done extremely well - it's really the comedy of the 40k universe. I agree that it would need to be done by a skilled author, but it can definitely be done and done well.

There is a BL graphic novel that is Ork-centric that I've been trying to get my hands on - Deff Skwadron. It's supposed to be really good - but it's also way out of print.

Anung Un Rama wrote:
Also, if we don't get rules for it, it would at least be nice to see from a purely hypthetical point of view what would happen if some of the Primarchs came back..

Hm, interesting idea, but I think it would be tough. I think a lot of people believe in the "If theres fluff there should be rules" theory.
Personally, Id like to see some primarch action. I dont see any reason for deamonic primarchs to hang back and look at their followers get repelled every crusade. It just doesnt make any sense

There was a great one called Chaos World/ Daemon Wolrd? That was from the persepective of a native population fighting against Imperial Colonists. The ending was weak but the plot leading up to it was great.

So something from the persepctive of a chaos cult or just rebels would be be great.

Rogue traders, explorer fleets and such also interesting fresh group to plow. Maybe first contact with the Tau?

Daemon World was about a world in the Eye of Terror where tribes following Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch were revolting against their Slaaneshi overlords. Somewhere around the middle the novel turned into something different when several Word Bearers were hunting down some sort of prophet or the like. It ended in something big al right.

Pawns of Chaos is about primitive Chaos cultists fighting back against the Imperium. I still need to read that book though, but I keep on postponing it for a cold night by the fireplace.

Rogue Traders have been done in the novels Rogue Star and Stars of Damocles. The first one was okay but I still need to read that second one that follows up on the plot hooks of the first. There's also a really old novel by the late Barrington J. Bailey called Eye of Terror that deals with a Rogue Trader seeking trade with chaos worlds. A bit old but it has its moments.

First contact with the Tau has more or less been covered in the Last Chancers novel Kill Team that BL promoted with the tagline "The enlightened Tau have reached out across the stars to contact the mighty civilization of the Imperium, what a shame they had to meet the Last Chancers, the worst scum the Imperial Guard have to offer!" It was a great book on how the Imperials view the Tau, not from a codex point of view but rather from the uneducated and unknowing point of view of the (un)common grunts that are to face them.

In regard to the traitor Primarchs: they either got very, very lazy or in case of Angron, was banished for 666 years because of venturing outside the Eye and picking a fight with a random world with a funny name.

There's also a really old novel by the late Barrington J. Bailey called Eye of Terror that deals with a Rogue Trader seeking trade with chaos worlds. A bit old but it has its moments.

I thought that Eye of Terror was an absolutely bloody horrendous novel.

Anung Un Rama wrote:The question is: is a book with Orks as main protagonists actually readable?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deff_Skwadron_(Graphic_Novel)

Ok so it is a graphic novel and not a book per se, but it is awesome none the less

Death By Monkeys wrote:You guys obviously never read the fluff from the old WAAAAGH!!!: The Orks book back in the Rogue Trader days. Ork fiction can be done extremely well - it's really the comedy of the 40k universe. I agree that it would need to be done by a skilled author, but it can definitely be done and done well.

There is a BL graphic novel that is Ork-centric that I've been trying to get my hands on - Deff Skwadron. It's supposed to be really good - but it's also way out of print.

I was just gonna bring that up (as well as the 'Ere We Go book from the same era)! There were some damned long ones in there, like.. probably close to 10 pages of just one story (I forget if I'm thinking of the Gargant one or the missing buggy/shokk attack gun one but one of them was damn long as I recall.

I'd happily write some of the shorter ones down here, but despite being long (loooong) out of print, I suspect it wouldn't go over too well with the mods

Oh and sorry if this is considered "threadromancy", I figured that since it was only just over a month old it wouldn't be too bad.. Anyway, I also had a question - is there anywhere that lists which races feature in which books? I realize the Black Library has what looks like a race specific search engine, but I plugged eldar into it and it came back with "0 titles", which is obviously blatantly wrong!
EDIT: Apparently the filter "works", they just haven't tagged any of the Eldar books..? And are there really 0 books starring Necrons (as they aren't even an option in the filter)?

It's interesting, "stainless steel" isn't steel that doesn't stain, it's just steel that stains less than other steel does.

Ditto for Bolters. They fire caseless ammunition, the shells require less casing that conventional weapons. It makes sense to me, just enough propellant to make them useful up close, and let the shell's onboard propellant take it the rest of the way.

I think the art for them is pretty consistent, giving the shells a case that's proportional to a shot-gun casing or pistol and not a rifle casing.

I realize that this is semi-OT but I thought this place would be as good as any to ask: what are some good 40k novels? I've heard of Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts, and might consider starting a 40k series.

Squig_herder wrote:I must say that the artist should cop a good hiding with a bosspole for screwing up the bolter, the one thing you dont screw with.

To be fair, bolters are depicted highly inconsistently.

BL also produced the Eisenhorn and Ravenor series, the Gaunt's Ghosts series, Ciaphas Cain, etc. Lots of non-marine stuff. And don't knock the Horus Heresy series, it's a fantastic read. I'm up to Legion right now, and the books are completely spell-binding.

number9dream wrote:And are there really 0 books starring Necrons (as they aren't even an option in the filter)?

I don't know if you'd consider it a starring role, but Necrons feature heavily in at least one BL novel. That would be Nightbringer by Graham McNeill. This is the first of the Uriel Ventris' Ultramarine 4th Company novels.

Masaioh wrote:I realize that this is semi-OT but I thought this place would be as good as any to ask: what are some good 40k novels? I've heard of Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts, and might consider starting a 40k series.

I've not read the Cain or Gaunt novels (not a big guard fan), but the Eisenhorn trilogy by Dan Abnett is a great series. The aforementioned Ultramarine novels (at least the first two) are pretty good as well.

And I just bought Mechanicum, the 9th book in the Horus Heresy series 2 hours ago. That's a good series about a pivotal time in the 40K universe. The first trilogy is superb, after that they're a little hit and miss, with Descent of Angels in particular being pretty poor.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:
I don't know if you'd consider it a starring role, but Necrons feature heavily in at least one BL novel. That would be Nightbringer by Graham McNeill. This is the first of the Uriel Ventris' Ultramarine 4th Company novels.

Also in Dark Apostle, the first Word Bearer's novel.

The biggest obstacle to overcome in writing for nids or necrons is the totally alien mindset of both these races. The nids are a hive mind with one purpose: to assimilate. There are no "Individuals" to give a point of view to write a story. Necrons, emotionless machines. The emotional content is how a story is written, how a story is told. Without the emotional content, you can't tell a story

I didn't know there was a Word Bearers series.

Are there any BL novels that feature the Salamanders or successors thereof?

There are two Word Bearers books and from a few rumors I heard the possibility of a third.

1st: Dark Apostle

2nd: Dark Disciple

Lots of stuff that was fun to learn in there, such as coteries in 12-man squads. But lots of crap I'd never suggest believing.

SPOILER

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:Lots of stuff that was fun to learn in there, such as coteries in 12-man squads.

Yeah, this was mentioned in their Index Astartes article and it's because 12 is their sacred number(fluffwise, not rules wise).

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote: But lots of crap I'd never suggest believing.

That is something that happens throughout quite a few of the series' published by GW though.
So color me un-surprised.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I didn't know there was a Word Bearers series.

Are there any BL novels that feature the Salamanders or successors thereof?

The WB series is alright too.

There will be a Salamander series, by Nick Kyme. There's an initial/introductpry short in the forthcoming Space Marine anthology.

This is, in theory, a trilogy, if sales etc are good,

Hailing from the volcanic world of Nocturne, Space Marines from the Salamanders Chapter are in search of an ancient artefact that leads to a world overrun by Chaos. They are the fire–born: implacable warriors with iron hard determination. But all is not what it seems as far more dangerous foe is revealed. As bitter rivalries break out amongst the Salamanders their endurance will be tested to the limit. Will the Salamanders survive long enough to discover the truth about this world and the revelations that will shake the very foundations of this Chapter forever?

Rolls out in September this year.

heroes of the Space Marines--the short collection--is May.

Gharhhh, I can't believe they're still using that guy for cover illustration. He makes everything look like it was dunked in barbecue sauce, even in grayscale.

Masaioh wrote:I realize that this is semi-OT but I thought this place would be as good as any to ask: what are some good 40k novels? I've heard of Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts, and might consider starting a 40k series.

well sorm of iron is very good