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whatwhat wrote:Oh wow, I'm actually Jewish, and your coming close to the line right there.

Am I still on the good side?

Orkeosaurus wrote:You know what would stop terrorism in Northern Ireland?

Having the border between Northern Ireland and the rest of Ireland guarded by people who are more willing to use pepper spray.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Alternatively, you could cover yourself in bacon.

Then the Muslamics can't hurt you.

What if instead of Pepper Spray, they used Pepper Bacon Spray? Half the Irriatation and twice the Baconey Goodness.
Also do you think that the gun he used was properly registered in the system? Must have been cause we all know that criminals dont use unlisted firearms.
I think they should pass tougher Firearm restrictions to rectify this problem!

Part of the problem lies in the fact that the IRA 'decommissioning' only turned up obsolete weapons, bolt action rifles WW1 era machine guns etc. No modern assault rifles are apparently being used by the IRA.

Now the Provisonal IRA has been convinced to make a genuine attempt at peace through carrot and stick, just as the old IRA had in the 1920's.

The new splinter group has been around for a while and is linked to if not responsible for events that are happening but not reaching the mainstream press. I made an exploratory thread here on Off Topic a couple of months back to see if the foreign press had anything, because it was quietly rumoured even back then that the Real IRA were breaking the ceasefire.

However until now they had not resumed terrorism and attacked soldiers or policemen and were AFAIK engaged mostly in offences against and within the Nationalist community, which could be considered organised crime rather than terror.

The new outrages are unfortunate, but not suprising for those who do not stick their heads in the sand or believe the platitudes spoon fed in the media. Northern Ireland is heating up again.

There is still hope, the real IRA has very little support, and can not so easily play the Blood Sunday card and so cannot easily get support. Also even Gerry Adams and Martin McGuniness openly requested cooperation with the police to stop them, this did suprise me and I have no choice but to acknowledge and respect that.

Thwe main worry is what Gordon brown will do. New Labour has toed itself as the saviours of the Northern Ireland peace process, from the British government side it was John Major who deserves credit, however you wont find them admitting that.
Brown will go to extreme lengths to maintain the illusion that New Labour is good for you, regardless of the future pricetag. I would not be suprised if he tries some face saving manoeuver that backfires later.
To offset this the current PM is a notorious ditherer and he may well dither long enough for the problem to right itself.

I strongly feel the correct course of action is to do as little as possible and to discourage action by the Loyalist community. if, and I mean if this is achieved it becomes a police matter and the faction can be contained.

The real IRA still has problems, it made good early progress through suprise, the soldiers went out to collect a pizza alone and unarmed. This would not have happened during the Troubles, as security tightens the Real IRA will have to resort to bombings - which require resources, or local terror campaigns which relies on the complicity of the local nationalist populace. denied both the problem might go away. I think they have taken this long since Inniskillin because they needed the time to build a resource base.

Orlanth wrote:Northern Ireland is heating up again.

I disagree. I don't see any evidence of that. Like you said, notable figures who ten or so years ago would have given the real ira sympathy have outright denounced them and no popular support is given. I have no doubt that the majority in ireland and northern ireland want the peace to continue.

This business we have here with splinter ira groups has been going on a long time, the latest events are some of the most extreme yes but it doesn't mean Ireland is returning to old ways. Without any popular and political support the only point they prove with actions like this is that they're nothing more than a bunch of criminals and I imagine they will be treated as such by both the british government, irish government, sin fein and the vast majority of the populations of each counry involved.

Frazzled wrote:

That was an argument put forward by some non-US citizens cncerning gun ownership and crime. The argument is just ban firearms. That will stop the crime.

Rubbish, no one claimed that. We did say it would make it a lot harder for someone to, for example, drive through smalltown Alabama and murder children.




Or dress as Santa and...

Or etc etc etc.

Who needs the Ignore function when you have flags to go by?

Showing my own American ignorance, did the Irish economic boom have anything to do
with people not supporting IRA activity in the past, and so does the current economic trouble
simply give anyone willing to cause trouble the manpower and time to act violently in the
name of political agitation?

Just wondering.

reds8n wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

That was an argument put forward by some non-US citizens cncerning gun ownership and crime. The argument is just ban firearms. That will stop the crime.

Rubbish, no one claimed that. We did say it would make it a lot harder for someone to, for example, drive through smalltown Alabama and murder children.

Or walk through a German town and put caps into 11 people...

..using your dad's guns ?

Showing my own American ignorance, did the Irish economic boom have anything to do
with people not supporting IRA activity in the past, and so does the current economic trouble
simply give anyone willing to cause trouble the manpower and time to act violently in the
name of political agitation?

A bit, but the success was more down to the huge wads of EU cash that was poured into the country more than anything. But obviously it's easier to invest and spend in a country that doesn't explode.

From memory they had some fairly...... lax and ....."creative"....banking techniques that were verging on the criminal or negligent.

malfred wrote:Who needs the Ignore function when you have flags to go by?

Showing my own American ignorance, did the Irish economic boom have anything to do
with people not supporting IRA activity in the past, and so does the current economic trouble
simply give anyone willing to cause trouble the manpower and time to act violently in the
name of political agitation?

Just wondering.

Absolutely, there's a lot of evidence to say the drop in the until recently prosperous housing market has something to do with it.

whatwhat wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Northern Ireland is heating up again.

I disagree. I don't see any evidence of that. Like you said, notable figures who ten or so years ago would have given the real ira sympathy have outright denounced them and no popular support is given. I have no doubt that the majority in ireland and northern ireland want the peace to continue.

Yes the trouble is that punishment beastings have gone largely unreported and old hatreds are still simmering. Now that some killings have started the situation can snowball easily, particular if sectarisnism killing restarts. If there is a viollent reaction from Loyalist terror grouops, which most certainly do exist this can easily get out of hand.

Besides whether you agree are disagree soldiers are now being shot on the streets of Belfast for political purposes and a sniper killed a polceman. The people who committed these outrages undoubtably will want to repeat them. Where there was peace there is now violence fact is fact Northern Ireland is heating up. How hot is another matter.

whatwhat wrote:This business we have here with splinter ira groups has been going on a long time, the latest events are some of the most extreme yes but it doesn't mean Ireland is returning to old ways. Without any popular and political support the only point they prove with actions like this is that they're nothing more than a bunch of criminals and I imagine they will be treated as such by both the british government, irish government, sin fein and the vast majority of the populations of each counry involved.

From what little se can see this appears to be the strategy. If soldiers are not on the steets against the Real IRA they cannot claim to be fighting a 'war', no matter what they scribble on walls. If it is kept a police action it can be written off as crime and the terrorists are just murderers and their political claims are easily denied them.

For what they are worth press reports today stated that MI5 dont know who they are. This could be the truth it could be complete misinformation. The report also stated that the splinter groups had reorganised and coordinated. This leads me to beleive that without unity there are not enough Continuity IRA and Real IRA terrorists to mount a campaign. as a consequence they are hoping fopr a bad reaction and sectarianism that will open recruiting. I expect the next attacks will be against the Unionist community in order to goad a loyalist terrorist atrocity that will begin the fueling of recruitment. Or they could carry on for a short while against 'hard military targets' and hope it garners some support.

Without reference to the press it is possible the gunmen were Irish American mercenaries. They were used in the past and from the comfort of the USA some 'plastic paddies', as the Irish like to refer to them, will undoubtably still harbour thoughts of joining the Cause and killing some English opressors. From what I know the sniper rifle was the principle tool of the American merc in Northern Ireland and one of the three dead so far was hit by a sniper. It is a possibility, and it is more likely the Real IRA will find supporters in Boston or New York long after sympathy has starved in Derry or Cork.

malfred wrote:Who needs the Ignore function when you have flags to go by?

Showing my own American ignorance, did the Irish economic boom have anything to do
with people not supporting IRA activity in the past, and so does the current economic trouble
simply give anyone willing to cause trouble the manpower and time to act violently in the
name of political agitation?

Just wondering.

I definitely think so.

The economic boom was mostly caused by EU money, low corporation tax, and the fact that we speak english and are in the Euro Zone and the Union, and the fact that we are generally highly educated (free university education).
What most thick Irish sods don't realise is that the Fianna Fáil/Progressive Democrat government of the last few years has completely squandered the chances the boom gave us- our infastructure is still basically the same as pre-boom, our broadband is laughable, and our health service is partially dismantled. Hurrah for the PDs attempting to port conservative american policies into a country they absolutely will not work in.
A rant for another day. But as usual your average short sighted eejit over here can't see that the mess we're in is all our own fault for voting in incompetants and liars and thieves consistently.
It's gotten bad enough that I'm joining a political party, despite my extreme disdain for all of them. Not gonna make a difference by sitting on my backside complaining about how thick everyone is.