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I just typed 0 a bunch of times meaning 10, but of course it gave 0 wthout me thinking...

Deadshane1 wrote:I'm not knocking the rating system really, and I love posting stuff in the gallery.

However....

I know I paint pretty darn well. I just love it that people can vote on a model and give it a crappy score for no other reason than maybe it isnt golden daemon quality or they simply dont like the choice in colors.

In rating paint jobs...I typically look and see if they highlight, can stay in the lines, or simply know how to drybrush.

I'm betting the person that rated my LR a 4 in my gallery probably doesnt even water his paints down or know to give reds more than one coat over a black primed model....much less posts his own stuff up here.

Normally I dont even care about ratings that my stuff gets...I just noticed this....and laughed.

Well why should it honestly get more then a 4? Wheres the highlighting on the hbolter and lascannon cases. there just black. also your colors are fairly matt. Nothing to make them really pop (other then the yellow but that's mainly because of the grey you used.) You can see the black primer you used on the blade. It also looks like you splashed on the red as you can see it dribbling on that one part.

Those are the reasons I think he voted it as a 4. As for me id give it a 6 nothing higher. Those are the kicks posting on a forum asking people to crit your work.

Golga wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:I'm not knocking the rating system really, and I love posting stuff in the gallery.

However....

I know I paint pretty darn well. I just love it that people can vote on a model and give it a crappy score for no other reason than maybe it isnt golden daemon quality or they simply dont like the choice in colors.

In rating paint jobs...I typically look and see if they highlight, can stay in the lines, or simply know how to drybrush.

I'm betting the person that rated my LR a 4 in my gallery probably doesnt even water his paints down or know to give reds more than one coat over a black primed model....much less posts his own stuff up here.

Normally I dont even care about ratings that my stuff gets...I just noticed this....and laughed.

Well why should it honestly get more then a 4? Wheres the highlighting on the hbolter and lascannon cases. there just black. also your colors are fairly matt. Nothing to make them really pop (other then the yellow but that's mainly because of the grey you used.) You can see the black primer you used on the blade. It also looks like you splashed on the red as you can see it dribbling on that one part.

Those are the reasons I think he voted it as a 4. As for me id give it a 6 nothing higher. Those are the kicks posting on a forum asking people to crit your work.

*sigh*

I'm talking to a wall.

This is the problem with number-based rating systems.
Not only do people vote differently from each other, the same person will probably give different scores on different days for the same paintjob.

Don't take it too seriously, Deadshane1.

As a theory question, what do you believe the scale should be?

10 = golden daemon, ok, that's a good one. The top score has to be really good.

But what about everything else?

Personally, (And, without having seen your stuff Shane, I'm talking about general cases here, not specific) I think "tabletop" (three color minimum, no shading/highlighting, some visible mistakes) should be rated a three, but that people should accept that "tabletop" is a three, and not be offended by the number.

My rational for this is that 0 or N/A is unpainted. If an unpainted model gets a 0, how bad does it need to be to get a 1? Primered only still counts as 0. So 1 would be something like only one color, or completely over the lines, and 2 would be almost tabletop, but maybe too many mistakes.

That makes tabletop the '3'. And, again, my thinking is more along the lines of how many degrees of separation do you need below the tabletop level? This also means that you have more space to rank things that are better than tabletop.

CMON puts 'tabletop' at 5. That means that they have only 5 steps to rate things better than tabletop, and as many steps below. That always seemed backwards to me. Getting models to the tabletop level isn't that hard, and there is a lot more room for improvement after you get to that point than before it. So there should be more variation above tabletop quality than below it.

And, when I vote here, that's how I vote. Tabletop quality get you a 3. Good enough to win a local RTT army contest is a 6 or 7 - the steps above that are for armies that have a shot at winning best painted at a major tournament, or individual models that are closing in on GD level.

I know this doesn't address your issue, but short of having 'voting mods' who remove completely out-of-whack votes (like the 7 on an unpainted vehicle), how do you solve it? Anything that's open to the internet is going to be open to problems like that.

Redbeard wrote:I know this doesn't address your issue, but short of having 'voting mods' who remove completely out-of-whack votes (like the 7 on an unpainted vehicle), how do you solve it? Anything that's open to the internet is going to be open to problems like that.

I know I keep saying it, but this is solved - you just make the average score the middle 80% of votes, cutting out the extreme votes on either end. We need more votes in the gallery before I can safely switch this back on though, but I am investigating alternative options at the moment (such as just using the middle 80% once there are 5 or more votes, but using the full range of votes if there are less than 5). As always, keep checking the gallery every few weeks because it is getting a lot of attention from me at the moment.

Redbeard wrote:As a theory question, what do you believe the scale should be?

10 = golden daemon, ok, that's a good one. The top score has to be really good.

I see so much stuff here that looks golden demon entry level I have to give that level 8. Leaving me space to rate higher stuff I like more. Even if stuff I like more might have less chance of winning awards - it is just my personal taste though, that means 7-5 is stuff I like but has flaws, and I never bother rating anything less that that

I rate in moreorless the same way as redbeard, but I do 9 for golden demon quality and 10 for jaw-dropping amazing stuff.

i got a 0.33 rating for something i was going to sell, ahh!

J.Black wrote:Personally i'm quite happy getting 4 for a couple of my minis as the quality on this site is pretty high!

+1

wow, people actually use the gallery so it seems.

To contribute to the topic, well from the very few pics i upload in the gallery (as requested) i get an average 4-6. Which i dont mind really, and after how red beard rates pics himself i still think getting a 4-5 is actually a good job.

I mainly use it as an easy place to store my picts on the web.
did a C&C on a model a couple of months back and didn't get many replies so asked why. one respondant told me it was cuase he couldn't see the models - just the red Xs. Therefore now i add anythiny i want comments on in this forum on my gallery.

I don't post my work onto the gallery for that reason. I post it on here in the forums and then have people C&C them. With all that crit I've become a much better painter.

I think this is sage advice. People who comment on painting threads generally (not always, but generally) have something constructive to say, and you can learn from that and improve your painting, or take new ideas and incorporate them.

On the other hand, people tend to go to the gallery when they're bored. When they don't need to explain WHY they are rating something a 5, they don't really care and just throw out ratings that are overly critical.

I read the entire thread, and some talked of many pics of the same wip miniature. I am absolutely aware that my pics are like that. It just happens to be that every pic I submit to the forum just gets to the gallery, and I am totally unaware of what it is I do that causes that (I am worthless at computers, I know). If the administrators think Some of my pics should be deleted to make the gallery better then absolutely, do that.

Sorry for filling the gallery with my pictures.

He, just checked my pics' ratings. Did you know my fighta-bommas' front got a 1, and the underside 7 in paintjob?

Judging anything is subjective. You will never get a solid concesus on how things are judged and why. Trust me, there's been tons of GD winners I looked at and was like "WTFO?!"

- Human wrote:
On the other hand, people tend to go to the gallery when they're bored. When they don't need to explain WHY they are rating something a 5, they don't really care and just throw out ratings that are overly critical.

So it would be nice to have some sort of indication of who voted on what. That would remove some of the anonymous trolling if people had to defend the fact that they gave perfectly painted minis 0s or 1s.

Paul Atreides wrote:I read the entire thread, and some talked of many pics of the same wip miniature. I am absolutely aware that my pics are like that. It just happens to be that every pic I submit to the forum just gets to the gallery, and I am totally unaware of what it is I do that causes that (I am worthless at computers, I know). If the administrators think Some of my pics should be deleted to make the gallery better then absolutely, do that.

Sorry for filling the gallery with my pictures.

Isn't this irony? Appologizes for using the gallery for it intended purpose. Really if things could be opted out of the voting system, people wouldn't have to look at WIP pics unless they really wanted to.

So it would be nice to have some sort of indication of who voted on what. That would remove some of the anonymous trolling if people had to defend the fact that they gave perfectly painted minis 0s or 1s.

Perhaps that would help, but it still wouldn't fix the problem. How would it change now that you know who gave you a 4? Are you going to call them out on it? I could picture a lot of trolling coming out of this.

I think the P&M galleries are a fine system. People who are willing to judge should be willing to say something useful, whether it's a criticism or a compliment or a new idea.

legoburner wrote:

Ifalna wrote:

JD21290 wrote:i think that only finished mini's should be able to be uploaded, i hate seeing 100's of WIP shots of a model, i rather just rate the final product, hence why i leave them.

Aye, or 20 shots of the same model in slightly different poses, or updating a wip every 5 minutes into the painting :(
Browsing the gallery can get very annoying when you get the exact same model 4 times in a row, or a streak of just primed/half assembled ones.

Recent changes to the software mean that this wont happen anymore. Try it out again.

Just did about 18 ratings, and half where the same hive tyrant in multiple positions :S It's like it just keeps pulling from the samer users gallery, and it is set to random image.

Ifalna wrote:

legoburner wrote:

Ifalna wrote:

JD21290 wrote:i think that only finished mini's should be able to be uploaded, i hate seeing 100's of WIP shots of a model, i rather just rate the final product, hence why i leave them.

Aye, or 20 shots of the same model in slightly different poses, or updating a wip every 5 minutes into the painting :(
Browsing the gallery can get very annoying when you get the exact same model 4 times in a row, or a streak of just primed/half assembled ones.

Recent changes to the software mean that this wont happen anymore. Try it out again.

Just did about 18 ratings, and half where the same hive tyrant in multiple positions :S It's like it just keeps pulling from the samer users gallery, and it is set to random image.

Is it blue and red? That's the one I keep seeing.

That's an issue with people giving the same scores to the same model. As more votes come in those groupings will get split apart, but yeah that is the main grouping issue that is outstanding and I'm looking at ways to fix it.

Throwing some ideas out there, how would people feel about a rating system on the search page... eg; being able to just click a couple of sliders and having it zoom off in the background to vote on an image? It would certainly allow rapid voting, but would it be something you would use or do you think being forced to view larger sized versions of the images is essential?

well i found that it depends how good peeps are at painting when they vote the better they are the less they seem to giv you and i only know this from other sites

Well then, I guess I better not rate your work. The way you've been whining in this thread over a 4, well, let's just say I wouldn't want you to kill yourself...

To be perfectly honest, I don't know if I would be able to begrudge you a 4 for that Land Raider. Certainly nothing higher than that. It looks like you just sprayed the thing silver and painted a few colors on. No highlights on the black weapon casings. Your garish red dozer blade is as streaky as a battered woman's eye-shadow. No shading to the silver anywhere. Same with your Grey Knights.

I seriously can't believe the amounts of:
A) WAAAAHHHHHH
and
B) egotistical comments.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That's why they say that. To have the stones to start a "poor me" thread because your falsely-inflated ego got a little butt-hurt over a 4, then to blindly insult the dakka community at large with a blanket comment about not watering paints or layering?

I'll laugh my ass off if you get some 1 ratings over this.



Ghidorah

[quote=BigToof

Paul Atreides wrote:I read the entire thread, and some talked of many pics of the same wip miniature. I am absolutely aware that my pics are like that. It just happens to be that every pic I submit to the forum just gets to the gallery, and I am totally unaware of what it is I do that causes that (I am worthless at computers, I know). If the administrators think Some of my pics should be deleted to make the gallery better then absolutely, do that.

Sorry for filling the gallery with my pictures.

Isn't this irony? Appologizes for using the gallery for it intended purpose. Really if things could be opted out of the voting system, people wouldn't have to look at WIP pics unless they really wanted to.

some people rate low just cos they cant paint as well. don't even bother with it! if you thinks its good then thats all thats needed.

your own opinion is gospel, thats what i say lol

Well judging or scoring of painting levels is so subjective that you should never take it too critically. What I find interesting is that when someone who paints and feel they paint at a certain level and are graded above their level are elated and happy and when graded below their level complain and whine.

You might think you models are at 7 out of 10. I might think they are 8 out of 10 but they might be a 4 out of 10 for someone else.. In the end, what does it matter?

Deadshane1 wrote:I know I paint pretty darn well.

Well, some people to not seem to agree with that assertion it seems.

Deadshane1 wrote:I just love it that people can vote on a model and give it a crappy score for no other reason than maybe it isn't golden daemon quality or they simply don't like the choice in colors.

Thats an assumption of what they are thinking about. I havent checked out your gallery until now, and I think you might have preferred that I didnt check out your gallery because half of the time painting was non applicable (as in: "N/A". Why do people post pics of primered models that aren't even converted anyways? ) and the other half was very average scoring. And since this thread is about how your models are rated, I feel that those scores frankly were being quite generous.

You see, when people post a blurry as hell pic and expect a decent rating (star trek marine) it is impossible to ascertain whether it is a good paintjob/conversion or not. Its best to not even post a blurry pic, than to post one and to cry about it later because it gets below average ratings.

Deadshane1 wrote:I'm betting the person that rated my LR a 4 in my gallery probably doesnt even water his paints down or know to give reds more than one coat over a black primed model....much less posts his own stuff up here.

You seem so sure of your own painting abilities while scorning other opinions about your work as though the world is universally full of idiots.
Statements like that should make one pause and take a step back to do some evaluation.

Deadshane1 wrote:My UNPAINTED terminator retinue is voted for paint exactly the same as my PAINTED one.

This sounds like grapes that are so sour that they went all the way to spoiling into vinegar completely skipping the part where they were supposed to ferment into wine .

Deadshane1 wrote:Basically people are not even paying attention to models before they vote. Those people should really not be even voting in the first place.

I don't normally like doing this, but I am going to go ahead and repeat myself from 30 seconds ago.

Hellfury wrote:You seem so sure of your own painting abilities while scorning other opinions about your work as though the world is universally full of idiots.
Statements like that should make one pause and take a step back to do some evaluation.

Perhaps if this system is so difficult for you to handle then perhaps you should refrain from posting pics to be rated? Or perhaps just ignore the rating all together?

You seem to feel pretty strongly that you paint pretty darned well, so maybe the scores don't matter as much as you think they do?

Deadshane1 wrote:This is the other thing thats funny about dakka.

I post a thread that basically says "Isnt it weird how my UNPAINTED army has a score of 7 in painting?"

....then WC haterz come on board and say I need to get off my high horse. Stay on topic, we know you hate us....enough on that. I dont understand how what I posted translates into narcisism.

Reread my posts there guys. I dont care what people rate me...I simply find it funny.


(and no, I'm not going to get all of my "gang" to go and rate you poorly....that's not what I'm on about.)

You know what else is funny about Dakka?

Its a public discussion forum where people posts topics for the public to discuss and then get angry when they get responses contrary and unsympathetic to their 'plight'.

I read every post twice prior to your post that I am quoting and unless you know something I don't, the comments seemed to be quite fair. There were no flames directed at you. They stated that they perceived your topic to be about something little more than a rant due to poor scoring of your pics. I find nothing in your topic that disqualifies that perception.

This has little if anything at all to do with your perceived groupthink hatred of your club, and more to do with how you perceive the community as a whole by the way you address the community with such broad and sweeping statements.

Protip: not nearly as many people care about the wrecking crew as you would like to beleive.

Legoburner...

Would it be possible to opt out of scoring for a pic? A checkbox on the upload page?

That way, people could decide if they want their pic just uploaded or whether they want it in the gallery.

This would mean that someone who uploaded 20 angles of the same figure they were proud of would likely have 1 maybe 2 that were in the "scoring" gallery and the rest available for their discussion thread.

Would also draw more people in, as I haven't looked through the gallery in a while due to undercoated figures or seeing the same one 20 times (yes I know you said you've fixed this partly).

Cheers

Hellfury wrote:Just about every single thing he said.

Hellfury apparently cannot see what I'm trying to say....again.

Apparently there's nothing wrong with an unpainted army pic being rated 7pts out of 1-10 in painting...but he avoided that little factoid in order to make himself seem "sharp and witty".

...since that's what this whole thread was initially about. Perhaps my initial post wasnt completely clear in my intentions toward discussion in this thread...however I think I've made it abundantly clear by this point what I think is "off" concerning the rating system.

Once again for those of you in the nosebleeds...I simply find it strange that people arent paying attention to how they're rating things. If I was truly upset by what the masses thought of my paintjobs I would be...

pointing out that I didnt paint yellow over black as someone accused.
mentioned that "oh..actually I DID forget to highlight the black on the LR...I'll go back and fix that!"
pointed out that the red on the blade is something like 4-5 coats of Foundation red/Crimson Gore. That isnt primer you see...its darkness due to my poor pic skillz with a heavy flash and wrong lighting.
My Chainmail is indeed not shaded, but painted, washed with blue, then drybrushed mithril (granted an effect that isnt neccesarily perfectly reflected in my amatuer pics)

...but W/E

Once again, the true nature of this thread is to point out that a painted mini is given a poorer PAINTING score than an unpainted mini(s)...something that shouldnt happen. THAT'S what I'm on about.

I dunno how many times I need to point it out that honestly, truly I dont care what the masses think of my paintjobs. I've been using the gallery because I'm proud of my stuff regardless and like to show it off to friends in other areas of the country, and that dakka is a "Myspace" of sorts for 40k.

I simply find it odd that at one point my painted GM was paint-rated within 2 points of my primered conversion.

At this point I'm wishing some mod would simply lock the thread since people seem intent on criticising my work instead of addressing the topic I've been trying to put forth with most every post I've made here.