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A little hatred towards the daemons huh Omar?

well not a hatred against guys and gals that play demons ...
just the idiot that brought demons into wh40k . he should be crucified .
seriously i have no problem with a csm + demons list , actually i would like to play such lists.
but pure demons belongs to warhammer fantasy. as far as fluff goes , demons shouldn't even be able to materialize on a battlefield without any humans .

True

but i would LOVE to see an entry in the csm codex to be able to do a lost and damned list. with new units like cultists , very cheap for 6 points per modell , you nead to sacrifice 1 modell to materialize 1 demon , but deamons would be a bit cheaper to make up for the loss . greater demons would nead something bigger as a sacrifice , like a 50 points " chaos priest " or something like that .
also there should be a vehicle limit .

sorry for hijacking your thread

No worries, we should get back on topic though. Is there anything else that I need to know about DE?

your vehicles are open topped . this is our blessing and our curse . this means we get penned by a bolter , but it also means that we can shoot while being in our vehicles . this gives us survivability . and we got the cheapest transports

but be sure that ALL our cool things will be gone if we get a new 'dex. gw always make other armys worse so that the marines will have it easier . come on , think about it : marines get all the updates , every marine chapter that got it's own codex is stupid except black templars ( to encourage people to play vanilla which is alot better then the chapters ). and they get the best support ( they got the first codex in 5th ed ). chaos lost their cool deamons that differed them from marines , ig's ogryns got gakky as far as i heard , warp spiders lost their haywire grenades ect.

DE are still a good army, albeit very dated.

Some of my favorite games where between my friend's DE and my IG, great match up



Personally, I will considering making a small force of DE assuming GW ever puts out new warrior models and a new codex (that doesn't blow).
Just remember, the warrior is still a very good troop! You get a lot for the points and they pack great firepower.

yea , i even dare to say that de warriors are THE best troop choice in 40k .
you gotta love i5 ws4 bs4 and their very cheap 8points price . imo just as good as dire avengers but cheaper

omar wrote:yea , i even dare to say that de warriors are THE best troop choice in 40k .
you gotta love i5 ws4 bs4 and their very cheap 8points price . imo just as good as dire avengers but cheaper

They are good, but don't beat out Ork Boyz, SoB, or (hopefully) the new guardsman

they easily outshoot boyz , guards really have no chance . sisters , well they are the only better ones

I agree that DE units are nasty.

i hope gw doesn't f*ck up this codex

Best way of playing tends to be spamming cheap raiders with lances and ravagers with tri-disintegrators, all with night-shields and sitting on the edge of the board. That's a lot of firepower they put out. As mentioned, screaming jets in place of night shields is also an option (allows them to DS), though trickier to play. A Wyche cult army is fun and themed, but hard to play as you pretty much crumple outside of combat.

Haemonculi are great HQs, with destructors and if necessary poisoned blades/scissorhands. Warrior/Raider squads should have splinter cannons and blasters, Wyche squads should have shredders. All units in a DE army should have Raider transports, unless they are not able to take them or you have a specific reason to take a large (16+) warrior squad (such as a webway portal carrier).

DE are hard to win with if you're just starting out, but in the hands of a capable player they're quite deadly.

omar wrote:they easily outshoot boyz , guards really have no chance . sisters , well they are the only better ones

Orks do more than shoot


We'll see about Guard in two months

we can run from orks , cheap transports ???

I think DE are not that good. They never win any tournaments. The new TLOS completely screwed their skimmers. Ordnance eats just about all their units alive. Night shield is highly overrated... Are your skimmers going to hug the far table edge all game? Lance bounce against high AV due to the new armor penetration table. I never have any problems beating DE with SM.

G

well , everybody has his/her own opinion of an army

omar wrote:we can run from orks , cheap transports ???

Lootas eat Raiders

true , well , against orks we should do a footslogger list with talos . they eat them

Wouldn't Talos be eaten alive by the bombardment of Lootas, Shoota Shots, and a Nob with Warboss/ Nob Bikers and Biker Boss.

screening with grotesques , that way only lootas could hurt him , but they would nead to get through the grotesques

Hmm, I suppose that would work. Aren't Grotesques expensive though? I don't have the codex in school so I'm unsure. I could be totally wrong

15 points, less than a marine .

a real bargain !

Wow, dirt cheap.

Grotesque are way overrated. I think mandrakes stink.

G

right 15p models that can't be harmed by a shooting weapon with a s value under 6 is REALLY gakky .
btw , what have mandrakes got to do with grotesques ?

Grotesques were the best screening unit in the game when units could be screened. Now, you would be using 15pt. models to give a cover save to 8pt. models. Grotesques cannot win close combat, they cannot shoot, and they cannot hold objectives. Waste of points.

Mandrakes, can't shoot effectively, can't fight in close combat effectively, and can’t hold objectives. Waste of points.

Jetbikes can't shoot effectively, can't fight in close combat effectively, and can’t hold objectives. Waste of points.

Other waste of points units:
Wyches, with no more Sweeping Advance, no good no more.
Hellions were always a waste of points.
Scourges, an expensive Heavy Weapon squad with light armor and jump packs. You do the math.

That’s half the army. Only a few war gear items are useful. BTW, ALWAYS give your Archon a Shadow field and Combat Drugs, or leave him at home.

Omar, I admire your enthusiasm, but you are engaging in Theoryhammer.

s1gns, you should listen to all advice, not just the advice you want to hear. Yes, at small point levels you can build a Dark Eldar army your friends will get tired of playing against. They will either loose to you, or figure out what to bring to beat you, and you will not win another game. And, you wont loose because of missions. You will loose because you wont have anything left on the table.

If you guys play 2X2 games, don’t even bother. Dark Eldar are the one army that can be destroyed in one round of shooting from a same size opponent (even after you just shot him up). That’s why you have to dance around. In a multi-player game, you have no room to dance. What will happen in every multiplayer game is you and your partner can’t eliminate half your opponent’s force in one turn, but your opponents realize you can’t hide from them both and they can eliminate your Dark Eldar on the first turn. You cannot survive shooting from two armies. Then they take on your opponent at their leisure.

If you keep playing small games, and DE are you second army, I suppose they would be fun. But, understand you will win big, and loose even bigger.

Out of curiosity, how am I listening to what I only want to hear? I ask what I wanted to know, I've received answers, and I've gotten many arguments that they have many weak points. Im not ignoring posts based on, "I don't want to hear this." This thread has been a ton of help and I'm glad the Dakka community can throw down information like they have. I've always considered DE to be a difficult army to use, but I've always had an interest in trying them out. I've been considering just getting a small army. If I find them fun and I play well I may expand, but as of now I have too much to deal with right now. (Finishing my BA and Ork armies.)

true

s1gns wrote:Out of curiosity, how am I listening to what I only want to hear? I ask what I wanted to know, I've received answers, and I've gotten many arguments that they have many weak points. Im not ignoring posts based on, "I don't want to hear this."

Because you seem to agree with Omar's every post. And, Omar is giving a best-case picture, which is fine as long as you know that. I just wanted to make sure you were looking at the big picture.

s1gns wrote:I've always considered DE to be a difficult army to use, but I've always had an interest in trying them out. I've been considering just getting a small army. If I find them fun and I play well I may expand, but as of now I have too much to deal with right now. (Finishing my BA and Ork armies.)

You didn't say this before, which is fine. You probably get more advice if people think you are contemplating Dark Eldar as you first army. If they will be your third army, that's a different story. If you like them, you really don’t need any other reason to acquire them. If they weren't so dang ugly, I might do the same thing.