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no doc, they sing black & white sheep.
if a song has been change dthen in theory its no longer the origional song.
so ill change what i said to: the origional song has been banned.



if your google-fu is weak check yahoo, it sometimes comes up with some better stuff.

You are making the link of the Black and White being a single line, rather than seperate verses.

Very common linkage too. Black and White, Salt and Pepper. However, this comes at the end of a list, and is followed by etc. This is good grammatical practices. Commas in between until the final two, when you use and.

SO once again conspiracy theory nonsense from the Right Wing Gutter Press. Class example here, again courtest of the Daily Nazi http://friedbrains.com/?m=200612

Oh no! Schools are going to educate children that yes, homosexuas do exist! And they aren't Paedophiles! And it is a perfectly normal thing! They will undo YEARS of pointless, hate engendering Dogma with their lefty ways! Give me a break. Is this really Political Correctness gone mad, or something we need in school? Homophobia, like Racism and Sexism, is largely learned. It takes someone telling you it is bad for it be seen that way. So explain what it is. Demystify it. Let the kids make their own minds up.

Disgusting behaviour. And I like how they call it Homosexual Dogma, whilst in the same paragraph (I think, can't switch tabs, will blank my update) gibbering on about normal sexual morals. Is that not Dogma as well?

once again doc, that is another opinion of YOURS
which proves feth all really.

well, it does prove 1 thing i guess.
no matter what someone says, if you do not agree with it then it has to be wrong.
other peoples opinions and proof means nothing to you if it does not back up your side of the descussion.


now please excuse me so i can spend the next 10 minutes smashing my head against the monitor, i may actually get somewhere with that.

Regardless, you are drawing a conclusion largely unfounded. You are seeking offense where there is none.

Check out the Friedbrains website. Just searched for Wintermas on there, hoping to find a place of origin (still defeated though. Ho hum). As ever, lots of example of 'Political Correctness Gone Mad' but with minimal, if any proof. Not so much examples, as mindless gossip if you ask me.

To be honest with you doc, im not even going to waste my time here trying to prove my point to you.
you either ignore it or simply say its bs, even when proof is provided.

yet when i ask for proof a single opinion is given and is ment to mean something to me.

im pretty much trying to get blood from a stone.
even if i had every single shred of proof possible, you would simply ignore it or say its gak.

so with that, im done here, having a discussion is one thing, having one that seems to fall on death ears is more than pointless.

Dude, I gave you proof. I linked you to a denial about the Thought Shower when the accusation was levied at my own local council.

My entire point, is that to claim a song has been banned is simply incorrect. They have changed the words and renamed it. This is not to say the original song may not be sung. Ergo, the song is not in the least way banned. Thus, the PCGM Brigade are once again caught telling porky pies.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Wintermas.....http://bigfluffyclouds.blogspot.com/2006/12/merry-wintermas.html So thats one opinion, without proof (seriously, no council quoted. Just a bunch of accusations) Struggling to find the origins of the work, though I am highly tempted to point out to the poster of the Blog linked that Christmas is a hijacked Pagan festival and thus arguably bugger all to do with Christ. Plus it's had bugger all to do with religion for most people for.....a while now.

Though my Google-Fu could well be weak. I've used Wintermas, Christmas V Wintermas, Origins of Wintermas, and Origin of Wintermas. And just now Wintermas Origin. None of these answered the question of where it came from.

Wintermas?

Are you perhaps thinking of:
Decemberween - Comes from Home Star Runner, funny ?
Winterweenmas - Comes from Ctrl +Alt + Del, not funny, like the comic ?
Festivus - Comes from Seinfeld, also funny ?

Otherwise I can't halp you.


In other news, I've heard that "Thought Shower" thing over here too. Both seriously and as a "PC gone wild" example.

A lot of the PCGM stuff is just like Urban Legends.

Lots of people have heard of the case, but it proves exceedingly difficult to nail down an origin, and when you do, it's deviated so far from the truth as to invite ridicule.

See the one JD and I have been discussing. He claims the song was banned. It provably wasn't banned. The School in question simply used the tune, added a few words and verses, and sang a different song. This does not mean the original is banned, does it?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:A lot of the PCGM stuff is just like Urban Legends.

Lots of people have heard of the case, but it proves exceedingly difficult to nail down an origin, and when you do, it's deviated so far from the truth as to invite ridicule.

Nonetheless, these things can take a life of their own, regardless of their origin.

For instance, I've heard "thought shower" myself at least twice. The fact that people either (a) think that "brain storm" is offensive to people with neurological disorders or (b) mindlessly follow whatever stupid change someone is told to now be "correct" is disheartening. Even if the whole "thought shower" thing began as a conservative looking to make a point, it doesn't change the fact that there are people out there who accept it.

Then again, there are people out there who think the earth is 5,000 years old, so that's not exactly enough to call it an epidemic. I have heard more people think that "thought shower" was stupid than sensible. Most people reacted to "thought shower" with sort of a "what the feth?" look, and called it a brainstorm themselves.

See the one JD and I have been discussing. He claims the song was banned. It provably wasn't banned. The School in question simply used the tune, added a few words and verses, and sang a different song. This does not mean the original is banned, does it?

It didn't seem like the song was banned from what I read, although I've never heard about the "black sheep" thing myself until this thread.

It's quite a common one in the UK Press. Though for some reason I think that Twinkle Twinkle Little Star was allegedly banned. Despite tonights Weak Google-Fu, I'll have a search about that. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1648037.cms Found this. Meh! Though this would seem to be banned for cultural protection reasons. Wonder what the Right Wing press would make of this.

I wonder. Could this be a kind of Google Whack thing? Name a Nursery Rhyme, see if it's claimed to have been banned.

Though to make absolutely clear the utter contempt I hold for the Right Wing Rags, I think this ought to help illustrate....

JD21290 wrote:once again doc, that is another opinion of YOURS
which proves feth all really.

No, you fail and you fail badly. It isn't just an opinion from the Doc, it's the explicit text of his article. Read the article. It starts with an outrageous headline. Then a quote is gievn out of context, which seems to support the headline. Then the text of the article directly contradicts the headline, showing that the nursery rhyme was used in many variations, including white sheep, black sheep, blue sheep, yellow sheep and the infamous rainbow sheep. It is a simple learning game that the nutter press decided to make into a PC gone mad story.

well, it does prove 1 thing i guess.
no matter what someone says, if you do not agree with it then it has to be wrong.
other peoples opinions and proof means nothing to you if it does not back up your side of the descussion.

But some things are actually wrong. In this case, your opinion is directly contradicted by the article you posted.

You have your opinion. It is directly contradicted by reality. It is therefore a wrong opinion. You need to accept that opinion is wrong, and reject the opinion or at least modify it so that it isn't directly contradicted by the real world. That is how people grow.

I swear and make racist jokes all the fething time. People need to chill the feth out. Also political correctness is just the application of social taboo under another name. Being PC is simply being polite and conforming to your societies standards, which regardless of rights is generally what people should do. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to be a tool. Well it does, but you shouldn't anyway because thats not what freedom of speech is there for. Freedom of speech is a false tool of society designed to protect the concepts of ideological and personal freedom. It doesn't actually exist, but since I can't put a knife through the face of every mouth breathing fuckshit that walks near me it has power that is difficult to control. Being free means being able to do what you want, being able to do what you want doesn't mean you should.

Freedom of speech isn't a crutch to shout to the world your slowed idiosynchracies and beliefs and political correctness isn't a blank check to censor. A balance in society much be achieved and then ignored because it's meant to exist outside of cognisience. No one should be aware of political correctness because there should be a fair balance of it in a functioning society.




Anyway anti PC threads are usually pools of idiocy.

Political Correctness is a lie. It is a myth perpetuated by the Right Wing Gutter Press, as they are now no longer allowed to attack people based on Colour, Creed, Gender or Sexual Persuasion..

Case in point.

sebster wrote:You have your opinion. It is directly contradicted by reality. It is therefore a wrong opinion. You need to accept that opinion is wrong, and reject the opinion or at least modify it so that it isn't directly contradicted by the real world. That is how people grow.

Actually, people grow due to cells multiplying.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

sebster wrote:You have your opinion. It is directly contradicted by reality. It is therefore a wrong opinion. You need to accept that opinion is wrong, and reject the opinion or at least modify it so that it isn't directly contradicted by the real world. That is how people grow.

Actually, people grow due to cells multiplying.

Up until the end of puberty. God help us if that's all the growing that was ever done.

Just gone back over the thread.

JD originally stated that Baa Baa Black Sheep had been banned in Schools, with no link to evidence posted.

Link later provided, good marks for that.

Then we see a simple misreading as leading to confusion and false accusations.

Now, not having a go at JD directly or particularly, but can we now see where most of the PCGM accusations come from?

Original Claim (Not JD's. He's just passing on what he heard, not his own assertion) - Baa Baa Black Sheep Banned in Schools.

Story after a little research - One Nursery (neither plural nor a school) had adapted the song to use it as an educational tool beyond it's original intention.

Through exaggeration, and outright fabrication, the original story (Assuming it's accurate, always a dangerous assumption on the Internet and with the Press of course) is twisted to fit someone else's agenda.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I think LuciusAR might be a clone of Grotsnik.

Errmm, not really. I'm not half a foppy as MDG and live somewhat further up north.

Though why having similar opinions on a given subject should make me a clone of somone else is beyond me, by that logic I could just as easily speculate you to be a clone of Trench-Raider.

Well I know that here in the State of Washington they aren't allowed to call Christmas Vacation by Christmas Vacation instead calling it Winter Break. I know they did this change while I was in School, one year it was Christmas Vacation the next bam, Winter break. The liberal teacher's explanation it was to prevent Muslims and Jews from having their feelings hurt. Also in School they made it so that saying the pledge of allegiance was optional, or if they still wanted to say it they could substitute god out with any word of choice.

PC may be a rightist wacko myth in Jolly Old England, but in the US its the truth, in some cases.

"I swear and make racist jokes all the fething time. People need to chill the feth out. Also political correctness is just the application of social taboo under another name. Being PC is simply being polite and conforming to your societies standards, which regardless of rights is generally what people should do. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to be a tool. Well it does, but you shouldn't anyway because thats not what freedom of speech is there for. Freedom of speech is a false tool of society designed to protect the concepts of ideological and personal freedom. It doesn't actually exist, but since I can't put a knife through the face of every mouth breathing fuckshit that walks near me it has power that is difficult to control. Being free means being able to do what you want, being able to do what you want doesn't mean you should."


I think you have a gross mis understanding of free speech.

1. you do nothave the right to say anything that may harm another person. I.E yelling fire in a crowed place.

2. you do not have the right to slander another person. No lieing on people

3. you do not have the right to verbaly abuse anybody.

4. you do not have the right to threaten or force anybody using words.

5 you do not have the right to infringe on anybody elses rights. Ie setting up a huge bust of hitler in your front yard.


You can make all the raceist jokes and cuss all you want. But if your cuss around some guy's 3 year old or say a joke in the wrong spot and somebody roughs you up. They can claim they were verbaly instigated, and that does hold up in court.

As for in the us religion can't be tied to federal holidays. Winter break used to be more about farming, like spring break. Christmas was added in the early days of turning it into a consumer bannaza. same and the way "under god and in god we trust were added over the years. The constitution forbids it. The U.S has a long history of racial stupidity, and PC keeps people from beating/killing each other for saying something stupid.

JD21290 wrote:: the origional song has been banned.

.

IN a two nurseries, at the choice of the owners or people who run them. It hasn't been banned or made illegal, which is the little lie that's pushed. other nurseries in the area carried on using the original words quite happily

The other, more infamous case being back in 2000 in Birmingham --which was changed pretty much straight away.

The example I believe MDG was scrabbling around for earlier is the infamous they're renaming xmas as winterval !!! 111
story that did the rounds a few years back. As you can read it was no attempt to "ban" Xmas or any such, but this has been seized upon-- very memorably by the BNP in several campaigns in and around that area-- and over the years has become " They banned Xmas".

So.... yes, sometimes PC behaviour can go over the top to a ridiculous extreme. So can and does every form of human behaviour.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

sebster wrote:You have your opinion. It is directly contradicted by reality. It is therefore a wrong opinion. You need to accept that opinion is wrong, and reject the opinion or at least modify it so that it isn't directly contradicted by the real world. That is how people grow.

Actually, people grow due to cells multiplying.

Unless you're the Blob of course. None of that unneccessary cell replication.

Did I mention I got my head handed to me in 40K last night? constant tourney winner vs. guy who play's once a month or so =s MASSIVE FATALITY

I hope you went down fighting at least.

Yep, my Bloodthirster ate his biker nobs with some fava beans and a nice chianti. Unfortunately 36 shots from Lootas can rain on your parade. Going down...in a lblaze og glorryyy!!!

He had biker nobz and lootas? Geez, must have been a high point game. Good to see you went down swinging.

1750ish. If by swinging you mean survived past turn One...

I think you have a gross mis understanding of free speech.

Actually I think you do.

1. you do nothave the right to say anything that may harm another person. I.E yelling fire in a crowed place.

This is questionable as there are no well defined areas of usage in the constitution. What denotes harm? I can easily find many people insulted by the comedy acts of people like Dave Chapelle (funny) and Carlos Mencia (Not funny), however their speech is protected, even in a public forum. Where is the law that states that one can't shout fire in a crowded theatre? Certainly, that falls under other laws about public endangerment but the speech itself is not what is in question, it is the act and intent.

2. you do not have the right to slander another person. No lieing on people

That ones simply not true. Slander is a civil matter not a enforceable "law". Look at the political system during any election and you'll find literally thousands of cases of slander.

3. you do not have the right to verbaly abuse anybody.

Actually I do. Thats not even vaguely in question. I can tell you what I think of you whenever I want as long as you aren't a child.

4. you do not have the right to threaten or force anybody using words.

Again, as with fire in a theatre thats entirely case dependent. My boss can tell me I'll be fired if I don't do a specific job. My boss can't tell me I'll be fired if I don't vote for McCain (or Obama). "Forcing" people through words is just an unacceptable form of threat.

5 you do not have the right to infringe on anybody elses rights. Ie setting up a huge bust of hitler in your front yard.

Sure I do. Private property laws and all that. If the neighborhood has some sort of obscenity clause or something then my rights are considerably lessoned in this instance, but they are still there. Again, this is a civil matter and not one of law. The law states that I can do so, it's up to a civil court to decide if I violated the "rights" of another.

im not quoting all that, so ill just stick with QFT on shumas post.

JD21290 wrote:im not quoting all that, so ill just stick with QFT on shumas post.

That's it? You can in here and made some claims that were proven wrong. I think there's a point of honesty, where you admit you screwed up. It's not that a big a deal, but it'll help people take you seriously in future threads.

BrotherStynier wrote:Also in School they made it so that saying the pledge of allegiance was optional, or if they still wanted to say it they could substitute god out with any word of choice.

That's a First Amendment issue. It violates freedom of speech and the doctrines of religions that consider it to be idolatry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

Has anyone mentioned the words and phrases the Obama administration cant use? Talk about political correctness...

Can't say war on terror. Its now a war on fluffy bunnies!