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yani wrote:Yep America could go in all guns blazing but just think what that would do to its already shoddy worldwide reputation.
What I think would be better is to use convoys of merchant vessels with one or two warships among them

I like this approach, either this or a small hired security dettachment on the ships them selves.

PMCs don't solve anything.

sA

Wolfstan wrote:One spanner duly dropped: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/5132627/Somali-pirates-defy-US-navy-by-holding-American-captain-hostage.html

Why do I bother!?! The idea of getting revenge on this little bastich's is wholly supported by me, a point you appear to be missing for some strange reason. I would suggest that you read Colonal Von Luck's autobiography and perhaps any other book by a German soldier who served in Normandy. You will see that although a bloody terrifying experience, alot of soldiers survived. Battleships have awesome firepower, but their main guns aren't cruise missiles. Which again goes back to my point that those boats are fast and small. They will also learn to hide from you by using other ships as cover, either as physical cover or mixing in with innocent crew men on other boats.

Yes my point about the RPG's is over the top, it was meant to be, it was highlighting 'sod's law'. My opinion still stands, take them out up close and personnal (not helo's, remember they come armed with RPG's as standard and helo's are allegic to them things). No prisoners, if not shot in a firefight, they get a bullet in the back of the head. You don't have to be right wing to support ruthless actions.

Which is why every battleship comes complete with machineguns and point defens weapons, and every sailor knows how to fire a M16 and shotgun.

Noo don't kill the pirates.




We need them to find some PRECIOUS BOOTY.

Easy way to fix this problem (as well as the homeless problem): Send in all the homeless possible, then bomb the livin crap
out of everything. Problem(s) solved.

for those of you that don't get it, that was a joke.

I'd just like to point out that the main reason the Bismark was destroyed was because a wood and paper biplane (Swordfish) got a lucky hit on its rudder.

Also the Hood was a Battle Cruiser not a Battleship, the Prince of Wales was a battleship, and also late sunk by the Japanese I believe.

So that Swordfish pilot was a Skywalker of the Second World War, never underestimate the power of people that have the balls or stupidity to attack things that a bigger than them with old equipment.

"Alright pilots, the hole which we need to launch bommz into is only 2 CM in diameter.."

"Don' worry mate! I use' ta shoot muskrats with my M16 back 'ome!"

"...We are so screwed...."

i suppose we could start deploying rednecks with ships
have them deploy on their bass fishing boats armed with whatever they want to fight back.

The 'spanner' Ironhide, is that you now have 4 pirates in a small boat with a US citizen held captive. They are holding a sodding huge ship at bay, with loads of hi-tech resources diverted to help out, but unable to do anything. So again I point out the fact that you have a small group of bandy arsed natives holding you at bay. What good are your M16's, shotguns and miniguns now? They don't have to attack you ships to be a pain in the arse.

You aren't dealing with a Western country here, you are dealing with cultures completely alien to your normal way of thinking. Although a statement attached to a fictional Sci Fi race, I think the Ork outlook to fighting can be applied here. If you take the 4 pirates out, the rest will jeer at you about how 4 pirates stood up to the mighty US and still attack again at some point. If you get the captain released and the pirates go free, they will jeer at you and how 4 pirates stood up to the mighty US and still attack again at some point. They don't do fair play over there, life is cheap over there. Power or percived power is what matters to them.

In fact let's open this idea to the board. How would you deal with it? Me, short term you should stick special forces or Royal / US Marines onboard to deal with the attacks. Long term, get the intel together and identify the pirates and the bases. Once done go in and hit them hard. If they don't learn from that, do it again... and again. Ships at sea are no real good, you only have a finate amount of transport to be able to respond quickly enough. Once the pirates work out you have "x" amount of helo's to respond, they will send out more ships.

This may sound entirely wrong but I'll go out and say it anyway.

They think life is cheap, show'em just how cheap it is by blowing the boat up hostage and all.

1. run over the dingy. Pick up the captain, leave the others.

2. Have a marine pop one of the pirates in the head with a rifle shot. If they don't immediately surrender go to #1.

3. Give them gold and let them go. Follow them. When they land drop napalm on the whole area. Put it on TV as warning to all others. Make this the strategy going forward.

Those could work Mr Frazzled, but I still prefer killing everyone on the boat. What happened to not negotiating with Terrorists?

Well they still have the captain. Hence ram it. Shoot smoke/gas into it. Pull a ship right next to it and blast it with all the fire hoses.

I do like the sound of that, Mr Frazzled but I'm thinking about when their buddies are all like "They stood up to the US!" It wouldn't hold as much weight if we took out the Captain as well.

But then there'd be all the bad press about killing an innocent Captain and all that. So your idea would work best probably.

Which again goes back to my point that those boats are fast and small. They will also learn to hide from you by using other ships as cover, either as physical cover or mixing in with innocent crew men on other boats.

That's the part I was responding to. Due to the PC attitude of the world at large, you're pretty much hamstringed when hostages are involved.

Even though I'm all for this:

1. run over the dingy. Pick up the captain, leave the others.

2. Have a marine pop one of the pirates in the head with a rifle shot. If they don't immediately surrender go to #1.

3. Give them gold and let them go. Follow them. When they land drop napalm on the whole area. Put it on TV as warning to all others. Make this the strategy going forward.

Especially number 3.

Frazzled wrote:No way. Amwerica is about firepower.

The irony of this thread.

All the 'Hurr' now the US military is involved and how they will set the world to rights.

However the supposed "cheese eating surrender monkeys" known as the French are feared by the pirates while the US is not. This is because the French didn't bottle it in Somalia in recent memory. The US is very good if it can apply massed firepower, precision firepower, or threats. If it involves policing things go wrong fast.

The pirates believe, not entirely incorrectly that the US has a push button military and no stomach for a close in fight. Thus they will be worried if they offer a good target lock but less so if they hide in a civilian district or keep real close to their hostages.

Furthermore Hollywood gives US special forces an ub3r rep, but they dont match up in the real. French commandoes on the other hand have the proverbial brass balls, let alone SBS.

Like most other operations the US forces get involved in that involve peace keeping or policing it is only a matter of time before it gets frakked up. At least when dealing with small boats in big seas the friendly fire and mistarget caualties should be at a minimum, for which everyone else will be thankful.

The pirates wanted 2 million for the captain. America paid them in lead, thats how we roll.

The 3 pirates were hopefully only a down payment.

Orlanth wrote:Furthermore Hollywood gives US special forces an ub3r rep, but they dont match up in the real. French commandoes on the other hand have the proverbial brass balls, let alone SBS.

LOL, wut?


How do they not match up in reality? A lot of our special forces have done and are doing things you never even hear about.

Yeah, they could be flying rockets from an orbiting space station like that guy from Dr. Strangelove and directing them at the bad guy. Then after crushing the bad guy, the special forces guy jumps off, lights a cigarette and tells kids to stay in school.

Sounds like a plan.

Or three simulataneous kill shots from a moving position TO three moving targets on a moving boat. Thats just wicked good.

Or one shot that simultaneously kills 3 people.

My approach would be to attempt to improve conditions in Somalia to the point where their own government could stop piracy. Ideally.

In the Real World, I say make use of highly trained military teams on merchant vessels. Cheaper, safer, and much less likely to result in innocent death.

We have two wars going on. Let Europe handle this.

I think we are really overestimating what the US Military involvement is going to be in this whole situation.

Depends. If we go in and wipe out the villages it turns out we really did no about then yes. Other options I've heard batted around involve troops in Somalia.

No.

That is the thing, I don't think we are at the level of that kind of military presence at this point yet. I'm sure it is being discussed, I just don't think we are actually at that point where it is a plausable reality. I think changing some of the merchant marine rules on firearms or a small presence is more likely.

halonachos: The pirates wanted 2 million for the captain. America paid them in lead, thats how we roll.

Actually, we're usually not normally that cost efficient or practical.

Frazzled: Thats just wicked good.

Nah, it's not that difficult when your hard-wired to your gun... oh wait they weren't

halonachos wrote:The pirates wanted 2 million for the captain. America paid them in lead...

You mean we traded classic Games-Workshop miniature figures for him?

Pirates vow revenge.

Heh, when I read it first I imagined big pile of lead being given to the pirates. It took me a good three seconds to catch it...