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tuatha1337 wrote:

Xenith wrote:gives them all an extra shot, at the expense of not shooting next turn - which is no loss, as they should either be in combat or jumping back into a transport.

Why does everyone put Dire Avengers in CC? They have no CCW (except for their catapult) so they only get one attack, and they get smeared quite easily in comparison to other units more designed for CC (Stiking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, etc). It seems to me that the DAs are better designed for mid-range shooting, with the plus of being a troop choice.

And THAT's the reason why I never take Bladestorm, despite the fact that people think it's super great. I'd rather have 40 shots over two turns than 30 over two turns. However, if you have an exarch with diresword/spistol combo, 4 init 6 power weapon attacks that hit most things on 3 can be pretty good coupled with Doom!

10 Dire Avengers in a Serpent.
Take two or three of these units for Fish of Serpent tactics.
I often let the Avengers in the Serpent until the endgame.

tuatha1337 wrote:

Xenith wrote:gives them all an extra shot, at the expense of not shooting next turn - which is no loss, as they should either be in combat or jumping back into a transport.

Why does everyone put Dire Avengers in CC? They have no CCW (except for their catapult) so they only get one attack, and they get smeared quite easily in comparison to other units more designed for CC (Stiking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, etc). It seems to me that the DAs are better designed for mid-range shooting, with the plus of being a troop choice.

Do the mathhammer once on shoot followed by charge. Dire Avengers are better than scorpions or banshees against many targets.

Defend cuts opponents down to size. Throw in a doom on the target and add a shimmer shield and PW and see what the difference is.
No they are not going to out-do banshees or scorpions for damage done in CC but they can walk away where the scorpions or banshees will be a shadow squad at the end of it.

Might be boring as heck but a doom seer and an army of predominantly dire avengers is not too shabby.


Say you focus on a squad of 10 vangard vets with stormshield and PW. (Pricey I know.)

Doom the target.

10 S 4 shots from banshees or scorpions - 7 hits 6 wounds 2 dead
27 S 4 shots from dire avengers - 18 hit 13.5 wounds 4.5 dead

40 S4 scorpion attacks, 20 hit, 15 wound 5 dead
30 S3 Banshee attacks, 15 hit, 3 dead.
20 S3 DA attacks, 10 hit, 5 wound, 2 dead.

3 to 5 Vets left on the table... That is 3-5 hits on scorpions or banshees, killing half that so 2- 3 kills.
Against DA they only get 2 hits, so about 1 wound and 1/3 of the time the avenger makes the shield save.

So end of combat 7 - 8 scorpions or 9-10 dire avengers against 3 vets still standing or 7-8 banshees against 5 vets.

Do it against 30 orks. The scorpions will cause the most damage but will lose about half. Banshees would lose their shirt.
Dire avengers will do about the same casualties as the scorpions but with most in the fire phase, they don't get the add-on casualties of combat resolution. On the other hand, with defend they will average losing about 2 or 3 avengers.

I did this simple not figuring all the specials on the exarchs. Exarchs may add 1 final casualty to the mix on average but not all that earth shattering.

DAaddict wrote:
I did this simple not figuring all the specials on the exarchs. Exarchs may add 1 final casualty to the mix on average but not all that earth shattering.

What about the Howling Banshee Exarch with furious charge to the whole squad, S6 power weapon [on charge] and the enemy failing a Ld test and having WS1? Thats not game changing?

Actually if you go back and look, if I'm not mistaken, only the Phoenix Lord Jain-Zar has Furious charge and the wording on it says that she gets furious charge but doesn't say that her squad does. I don't believe it effects her squad.

Alright... so you war shout. Most armies we are talking 9 or 10 leadership. They miss it either 1 out of 6 or 1 out of 12 assaults. Not something to hang your hat on IMO. Granted for 5 points why not.

Defend is a guaranteed 1 less attack. You just have to be content with not dominating the CC just perhaps winning it.