Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I like Lootas myself, but then again I lean to shooty style lists. Entire squads or multi-wound monstrous creatures can disappear in one good round of shooting with two or three squads of a dozen or more Lootas each.

olympia wrote:Zag has a powerklaw as long as he is in an assault, not just the initial turn.

That's not the way I'm reading Zagstruck's entry:

"On any turn that Zagstruk charges, he counts as having a power klaw that strikes in normal Initiative order..."

Parsing the English we can assume that on any turn that he does NOT charge, he does NOT count as having a PK that strikes in normal Initiative order.

Now let's look at his listed Wargear: Stormboy Rokkit Pack, Stikkbomz, Cybork Body, Choppa, Slugga. I don't see Power Klaw in there.

Conclusion: On turns in which Zagstruk does NOT charge, he does NOT count as having a Power Klaw.

On Paper it looks like not a big deal that he only gets his PK on the charge, he will inevitably be "Counter-Assaulted" and denied Furious charge and the PK... This leads to a unit of unbreakable boys lead by a Nob with out a PK to put you over the edge for Combat resolution...

The upside is that your opponent will have too take out every last boy before hurting ol'Zag and he will be trapped in combat until the entire unit is dead... however 385 points to trap a unit of infantry and kill another seems hardly worth it in Annihilation games but may be worth it in Capture and control types games...

This all goes back to defining "how a unit earns its points back"... 385 points may seem like a lot but if it keeps your opponents 400 point unit of terminators from hunting your Walkers then Zag's unit may earn back the points through the mayhem the Walker caused.

The presence of Zag on the side of the table waiting to deep strike tends to produce the Snikrot effect as your opponent will have to deploy differently and keep "counter assault" units near vulnerable targets... This can give you a small tactical edge as you have no such restrictions on your deployment or advancement.

If you're looking for a powerful disruption unit from reserves, then Snikrot and Kommandos with burnas is the way to go, not Zag.

Zag is a 1/3 yes 2/3 no unit. The "best" way to deepstrike Stormboyz is far away from enemy units; this keeps you safe from bad scatter rolls and is compensated for by their excellent movement range. It also makes Zagstruck worthless.

Snik on the other hand comes in off of any table edge, can Waagh!, is S6 with 6 attacks against rear armor, and 2 burnas will either squash lightly armored squads in cover or can be used as power weapons against MEQs.

Lootas for killing, Snikrot for disruption, Zag for ... fluff?

sourclams wrote:If you're looking for a powerful disruption unit from reserves, then Snikrot and Kommandos with burnas is the way to go, not Zag.

Nothing is stopping you from taking both, these are orkz we're talking about redundancy is your friend.

EDIT: fixing quote mistake

Er... spending 400 points on 30 Ork models doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.

That's not Redundancy, that's point hemorrhage.

indigo_jones wrote:I've never found stormboyz to work extremely effectively, but I have had some luck with them flying alongside a BW. I wouldn't run 40 of them, at the most 20 with Zags. Lootas are good, very good, and remember if one squad is good, two is better. Putting them in the BW is cool, but you lose round of shooting by having to move them in there, as elites they can't take the BW as dedicated. Even if they don't really mess a lot of things up, the psychological impact is worth the points, you'll force youre opponent into different areas since he'll want to avoid getting shot by the lootas firing lanes. Its nice to compliment the Lootas with a Big Mek with SAG, but the KFF is probably more useful in the army youre running.

To clarify, the lootas can or can't shoot after the BW moves, I would think that they couldn't, but if they can that would be incredibly cheesy and I would have to whore that combo.

Maybe this is a stupid question, but I thought you could start the Lootas in the BW? It says "Dedicated transports can only deploy with the original squad inside".. Am I wrong in taking this to infer that other transports can start with whatever unit you like inside?

Maybe it's covered somewhere else and I missed it.

sourclams wrote:Er... spending 400 points on 30 Ork models doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.

That's not Redundancy, that's point hemorrhage.

If those points are spent on 2x 15 man squads of lootas, then they are points very well spent

That, I'll agree with.

sourclams wrote:Er... spending 400 points on 30 Ork models doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.

That's not Redundancy, that's point hemorrhage.

Ahem, make that 20 boyz... Stormboyz don't come in groups of 20, making it all the more difficult to justify those points. But, who doesn't enjoy fielding a group of them just to have an assault squad available to fill gaps? I don't know that you can justify Zagstruk's cost, but a typical nob + pk + boss poll deployed with the rest of the boyz (read no deepstrike) can typically pay for itself, or draw enough fire to make the opponent weep when the rest of your relatively undamaged line hits his front ranks.

Carnuss wrote:

sourclams wrote:Er... spending 400 points on 30 Ork models doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.

That's not Redundancy, that's point hemorrhage.

Ahem, make that 20 boyz... Stormboyz don't come in groups of 20, making it all the more difficult to justify those points. But, who doesn't enjoy fielding a group of them just to have an assault squad available to fill gaps? I don't know that you can justify Zagstruk's cost, but a typical nob + pk + boss poll deployed with the rest of the boyz (read no deepstrike) can typically pay for itself, or draw enough fire to make the opponent weep when the rest of your relatively undamaged line hits his front ranks.

This.

While I enjoy Zags rather Orky rules, in game terms a nob with some boys is just as good, if not better. I have said it before and Ill say it again, an army who focuses on close combat should utilize a squad like this. Plus their are fun as hell.